How can someone pick Altruis over Kayn?

[Deleted]

Please explain me how is this possible? Whatever differences Altruis had with Illidan, you don't just ask to a random dude that you meet for the first time to go and kill your former allies and brothers. Just because you think that they were corrupted. Exactly, he THOUGHT that they were corrupted so yeah, hey guys, go and kill them because they are becoming more demons than hunters, just because I say so.

But he was sooo wrong. We learn in Legion the fate of Varedis's soul, Illidan's best student that Altruis asks you to kill because ''he was gaining so much power he must be destroyed!!.
His demonic soul went to the Twisting Nether where he was found by Kil'jaeden. Kil'jaeden heaped endless torment upon Varedis, who resisted for a time, but it was not pain that broke his spirit. The Deceiver played upon his shock from the battle at the Black Temple. Champions had been prepared to face Varedis and known to use the Book of Fel Names, so who had told them of that power? Varedis knew it would not have been the Burning Legion or the Shadow Council, as they would have preferred the book to remain intact. Kil'jaeden convinced Varedis that it could only have been the Illidari, who knew of his power and betrayed him. Varedis surrendered to the demon within him, forsaking his mortality. In the process, he and his glaives were infused with great power by Kil'jaeden's eredar allies.
Can you see it now? Varedi's tried to ressist to Kil'jaeden's torment. How can someone that is CORRUPTED according to Altruis, would resist such torment for so much, ONLY to surrender because he found out that it was one of his former BROTHERS that betrayed him...

And guess what, every single demon hunter teacher that Altruis asked you to kill (including Varedis) is back in Broken Shore as the Burning Legion's servants. Great plan Altruis, great plan indeed.
If someone has read the book like I have will agree that Illidan has literally done almost nothing wrong. I say almost, he is obviously not perfect. So how can someone pick Altruis? Kayn is the ONLY option. A true loyal soldier to Illidan. Someone that will not backstab you just because he doesn't agree with your methods, or because you are becoming more powerful to slay demons. (which is the purpose of demon hunters in the first place....)

The only reason I ever thought to pick Altruis was because of Akama. But fuck this, I just can't trust and follow this guy.

[Maylander]

Because I don't trust the others to actually contain their power. Altruis is the only one seemingly showing real restraint, so perhaps he can teach that to the others. Illidan suddenly being concerned for others is simply something I don't believe in: I still remember him saying to Malfurion in WC3 that his primary concern was power. That's still his primary concern, which goes for his lackey Kayn as well.

Simply put: I don't believe in the whole redemption thing. Not even close. He might be useful, but Malfurion got it right: He's dangerous, and he's still power hungry.

[OIS]

The guy's right. Now that we know Illidan did nothing wrong(sort of), we should choose Kayn.

I reasoned choosing Altruis because Illidan had some fuck ups during his reign, and Kayn following him blindly(heh) would be a liability. I mean, why would you send your most elite troops on some suicide mission while your main base was under siege?

[Mad_Murdock]

Please explain me how is this possible? Whatever differences Altruis had with Illidan, you don't just ask to a random dude that you meet for the first time to go and kill your former allies and brothers. .

We play a game in which we travel around world (or worlds) and meet random people who offer us quest to kill other groups that we have no idea who they are and why we are really killing them other than the quest giver say they are bad and should die.

As the quest text says, picking one over the other doesn't have any effect on player power. So it's just a choice

I mean, why would you send your most elite troops on some suicide mission while your main base was under siege?

The mission was more important and needed to get done. I thought they kinda made that clear. Illidan felt confident that he could handle his business, in some regards maybe it was the better call. Else we would have killed the elite troops and wouldn't have them today.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Illidan has been captured by the Legion, and Kayn sounds like a mad devotee who would follow Illidan anywhere, even if he were to join the Legion. Altruis seems far more reasoned. Regardless of the fact that he was wrong originally, he sounds like he'll make better decisions than Kayn when Illidan commands something stupid.

[Deleted]

Night elf > blood elf

I don't care about reasoning on these things.

[Nixl]

By pressing choose Altruis. Worked for me.

[Kralljin]

If i take into account what happens to Akama:

If you chose Altrius, he will convince Akama to aid your cause, if you chose Kayn he will attack Akama and create another Shade of Akama which serves you, while Akama languishes in the BT.

I have to say, Altrius has a point, Illidan and his Demon Hunters are becoming demons themselves.

[Sinirlan]

Because I was helping Altruis waaaay back in TBC with killing legion in Nagrand, that's why.

[Zaelsino]

He's the one you choose if you don't really want your Illidari demon hunter to be an Illidari demon hunter. Lovely, but IMO your DH is already halfway to la la land if they're crazy enough to put a traitor in charge over Kayn or Kor'vas, or you know, anyone who hasn't displayed a tendency to run off and pay strangers to kill you at the first sign of disagreement. Ironically, Altruis comes off as more narrow-minded and unwilling to trust than Kayn, who for all this talk of "blind loyalty" was happy to bury the hatchet with Illidan's killer to ensure the Illidari endured as a faction.

I can understand forgiving Altruis and perhaps giving him another chance, but immediately making a proven traitor with the blood of your comrades on his hands your second-in-command is straight up retarded. No wonder the game treats Kayn as the canon Illidari commander for non-DHs.

[Graden]

I can understand forgiving Altruis and perhaps giving him another chance, but immediately making a proven traitor with the blood of your comrades on his hands your second-in-command is straight up retarded. No wonder the game treats Kayn as the canon Illidari commander for non-DHs.

Not to mention that his fallen comrades that he ordered to kill are now part of the Burning Legion, only because of his actions. He failed big time on this, something I really can't just overlook.

[Gracin]

I haven't even started my DH yet, but I will be choosing Altruis. I believe his control over the demonic side is what is needed in the Illidari, perhaps if Illidan had sent him to help Varedis he could have been saved. Now I don't nesessarily agree with Altruis' decision on Akama, but keeping the Illidari's demons at bay outweighs this choice. I honestly think Altruis is a good replacement leader in place of Illidan.

[Deleted]

Illidan's actions were too similar to the Legion's action during TBC. Honestly, I've a hard time trusting someone who never questions his leader. He forced the Mag'har to become fel orcs, he enslaved brokens, he never fulfilled his promise to Akama and he attacked Shattrath. "He had to make tough decisions" seems a really poor justification IMO. If I wanted an army of mindless servants, I'd take the Scourge.

[Fel733l]

If i take into account what happens to Akama:

If you chose Altrius, he will convince Akama to aid your cause, if you chose Kayn he will attack Akama and create another Shade of Akama which serves you, while Akama languishes in the BT.

I have to say, Altrius has a point, Illidan and his Demon Hunters are becoming demons themselves.

If you Pick Kayn, you try to reason with Akama at the beginning. Akama flips shit and tries to kill you. You beat Akama. Akama refuses to help. You create the Shade because Akama still has the information you need.

If you pick Altruis, you try to reason with Akama at the beginning. Akama flips shit and tries to kill you. You beat Akama. Akama suddenly feels as if he's in a helping mood today. You leave with Akama.

Altruis doesn't do ANYTHING special to win over Akama. The only thing you could say is that he said "You know I opposed Illidan..you can trust us!" Watch the scenarios on youtube.

Illidan's actions were too similar to the Legion's action during TBC. Honestly, I've a hard time trusting someone who never questions his leader. He forced the Mag'har to become fel orcs, he enslaved brokens, he never fulfilled his promise to Akama and he attacked Shattrath. "He had to make tough decisions" seems a really poor justification IMO. If I wanted an army of mindless servants, I'd take the Scourge.

Can someone show that Kayn blindly follows Illidan, or is it just that he's loyal to Illidan that sets people off? I have yet to see an act of blind loyalty.. but it's always thrown around.

The orcs I have nothing for.

The Ashtongue weren't enslaved until Shade of Akama(Btw since they're enslaved, why is there still a group with undying loyalty under your command on the Fel Hammer?)

Akama was being a shady fuck. Read the book, oh and Illidan fully planned to give Akama back his temple.. *after* they had left. I'm sure once they obtained the Sargerite Keystone.. Black Temple wouldn't be worth staying for. I guess you could argue that Illidan didn't give Akama an estimate on when he and his Illidari would stop crashing in his temple.

Kael'thas attacked Shattrath. The group of blood elves became the Scryers.

[Donald Hellscream]

Because I dislike Kayn's voice and he is too much of an edgelord to me.

[Melsiren]

Because the way Illidan is handling the Burning Legion is no different than how Sargeras is handling The Void Lords.



The fact is Altruis was willing to work with Kayn, Kayn couldn't get over himself to work with Altruis. Kayn is sure ready to sacrifice everything to defeat the Burning Legion other than his pride.

[Deleted]

If you Pick Kayn, you try to reason with Akama at the beginning. Akama flips shit and tries to kill you. You beat Akama. Akama refuses to help. You create the Shade because Akama still has the information you need.

If you pick Altruis, you try to reason with Akama at the beginning. Akama flips shit and tries to kill you. You beat Akama. Akama suddenly feels as if he's in a helping mood today. You leave with Akama.

Altruis doesn't do ANYTHING special to win over Akama. The only thing you could say is that he said "You know I opposed Illidan..you can trust us!" Watch the scenarios on youtube.

Another thing is that Kayn would gladly have the Temple back to the Illidari while Altruis hopes he can be restored. It's very telling of their nature, and I prefer Altruis'

[Fel733l]

Because the way Illidan is handling the Burning Legion is no different than how Sargeras is handling The Void Lords.



The fact is Altruis was willing to work with Kayn, Kayn couldn't get over himself to work with Altruis. Kayn is sure ready to sacrifice everything to defeat the Burning Legion other than his pride.

I'd want to work with the same guy who sent people to murder my former tutors/trainers and friends too. I also want to work directly *under* them.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing is that Kayn would gladly have the Temple back to the Illidari while Altruis hopes he can be restored. It's very telling of their nature, and I prefer Altruis'

I agree, sort of. Kayn doesn't trust Akama, and basically treats him as an enemy. Altruis doesn't.

I just need to say that I can see WHY people would pick Altruis, but for my DH who has done nothing but serve under Illidan, fight FOR Illidan. Was promoted to lead an elite force on Marduun BY Illidan. I find it hard to believe that the PC would turn on Illidan's ideals and pick someone that in the PC's and a majority of the Illidari I'm sure - is a traitor to the cause.

But as someone who can know the whole story, sure. I can see the appeal. It's like how Alliance players can be pissed off at horde plays in an RP way - but as actual players who can see both sides - know that the Horde are not truly at fault.

[Melsiren]

I'd want to work with the same guy who sent people to murder my former tutors/trainers and friends too. I also want to work directly *under* them.

Then you should get over your self or hang up your Glaives, because you're not actually dedicated to defeat the Legion... just like Kayn.

As a Demon Hunter you should not be loyal to any one, loyalty can have you fall to corruption, loyalty lets you overlook people becoming the very thing they swore to fight.




Copy and paste from a post on the class forum, because honestly this covers all my thoughts on the situation.

There's a lot of Illidan fanboys right now, especially with the initial hype and some "interesting" interpretations of the novel's characterization. This is an elf who originally sided with Sargeras and the Burning Legion, handing the Demon Soul over to the demons, all because he didn't want to lose the Well of Eternity and the source of arcane power (also because Tyrande chose Malfurion over him). He was imprisoned because he desired a new Well to revel in his arcane sorcery. Selfish motives.

This is a leader who forcefully captured and corrupted Mag'har orcs using Magtheridon's blood to serve as shock troops. He enslaved the Broken for labor. He also murdered out of spitefulness. He promised Akama that he would spare the Ashtongue but instead sacrificed their souls to power a portal to Nathreza. He was willing to annihilate an entire continent filled with people on Northrend using the Eye of Sargeras in order to appease Kil'jaeden's wrath.

At one point in the novel, Illidan literally himself wondered if he was insane.

Illidan states the ends justified the means. Altruis disagreed that genocide, slavery, and sacrificing innocent lives were justifiable means. I'm with Altruis on this. The Illidan fans call him disloyal but I believe Altruis spoke truth to corrupt power and rebelled. Illidan's tactics are strikingly similar to the Burning Legion. Sargeras said wanton destruction of life is required to save it from the Void Lords. Illidan similarly justifies his own destruction and corruption as required to save it from the Legion.

For me, choosing Altruis symbolized a new beginning for the Illidari. To say, "Hey, maybe blindly following Illidan's every whim, motive, and moral compass should be questioned". I mean, this "Altruis is a traitor" stuff is laughable to me because he has the same goals as Illidan but chooses not to evade accountability for the power gained. I don't like group-think, especially when it's following someone who's done some pretty horrific stuff. I just can't ignore it. I chose Altruis to liberate the Illidari from a Shando's excess and failings.

[Fel733l]

Then you should get over your self or hang up your Glaives, because you're not actually dedicated to defeat the Legion... just like Kayn.

As a Demon Hunter you should not be loyal to any one, loyalty can have you fall to corruption, loyalty lets you overlook people becoming the very thing they swore to fight.

So you're saying that loyalty is a weakness?

"You trust no one and believe in nothing. You are a leader with no followers."


edit:

and I certainly can agree with you that Illidan has failings - and that his moral compass certain points in a direction that many people dislike, and downright hate. He did sacrifice lives, and throughout the book you can even see his plans for torturing Maiev. I totally believe that he's a character that is downright at some level, fairly evil.


But why should the PC choose a known betrayer? People need to remember that the PC from a lore standpoint doesn't have all of this knowledge we do. They're a higher up in the Illidari ranks - and they're leading an elite force handpicked by Illidan. What does that tell you of their trust in Illidan?