Vol'jin making Sylvanas warchief over Baine, Saurfang and Lor'themar is pretty stupid

[Mehrunes]

I doubt very much that this decision was a sales tatic. While I believe there may be some people out there that would buy an expansion because they find the Horde leader sexually attractive, they are the extreme minority. I mean, you're talking about someone buying the xpac, paying the monthly fee, all so they can look at the in-game pixels of Slyvanas and get off to it?

I don't really think so... not when they can google it for free and find thousands of images and videos (I'm sure they're out there) to feed their sexual desires of her.

You're doing this wrong. If you don't hate Sylvanas with every fiber of your being and when this is not your reaction every time you see her, that means by default that you masturbate to her. Obviously.

[Safhira]

A strong leader knows when his forces are defeated and needs to step back to fight another day.

I agree but couldn't she have ordered her ships to cover Varian till they made it to their ships? That way it doesn't look to the Alliance like she betrayed them and left them to die.

[Mehrunes]

Again, your perspective and the fact that you do not want to see the perspective of the other is woefully leading you to this anti-Horde viewpoint. I am an Alliance player myself but I can see why the Horde had to because hey, I actually played their side. They didn't look like they were being beat because you ONLY saw her dark rangers taking down the flying demons. Literally, that's all you see you don't even see the damn battle happening behind them.

Not to mention that from story perspective, the only way for the spaceships that warped in in the end of the Horde scenario to bomb their position to be more visible would be them going kamikaze on the Horde instead, which makes it kinda impossible for the Alliance characters to miss them.

[GrinningMan]

I never got over how utterly stupid it was for Vol'jin to break his tusk just from falling over... gently falling over mind you...
(If he was like.. flung 50ft..off a cliff sure... but he essentially tripped over his shoe/toe-laces and broke his face.)

Trolls would have no tusks left if they were all made out of porcelain.

You've never fallen on a hard surface, have you? That's a full body-weight fall and, for as how graceful as it looks, generally it isn't nearly as pretty as the cut scene makes it out to be.

[ItachiZaku]

All three of them are solid, trustworthy leaders. Yet he chooses Sylvanas.

"I have never trusted you... But the spirits told me to so I'm making you warchief." *dies*

10/10 storytelling Blizzard

After the only white male, King of the alliance dies, who should take over? How about the only other white male. Mekka and Muradin don't count, since they are circus midgets.

[Evilfish]

After the only white male, King of the alliance dies, who should take over? How about the only other white male. Mekka and Muradin don't count, since they are circus midgets.

Why would you bring color into this. Seriously?

[Ebalina]

I agree but couldn't she have ordered her ships to cover Varian till they made it to their ships? That way it doesn't look to the Alliance like she betrayed them and left them to die.

From the clips you could clearly see the 2 army's fighting on 2 fronts.

There are no present horde ship where the aliance forces are as there are no aliance forces where the horde ones are.
In the scenario you could see them saying who will take what attack position and they wish them self's good luck and the forces split each faction going after their respective leadership .

[Safhira]

From the clips you could clearly see the 2 army's fighting on 2 fronts.

There are no present horde ship where the aliance forces are as there are no aliance forces where the horde ones are.
In the scenario you could see them saying who will take what attack position and they wish them self's good luck and the forces split each faction going after their respective leadership .

Ah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[Keuric]

She is definitively the best choice given the circumstances. Saurfang would be a great leader, but he is too old, so the best position for him would be an adviser. And I think that Sylvanas would listen to his advice more than Garrosh did. Garrosh was a great warrior, but he was just bad in tactics and logistics, two important things to win a war, not just battles and fights.

People just have a problem with a woman leading the horde, and everything they say otherwise is just a diversion. This not exactly a new thing, Queen Elisabeth I. would like to have a word with you.

Let's be intellectually honest here, because it's important. If you have a problem with a woman leading something, that's on you. That makes you a misogynist.

Sylvanas has proven repeatedly that she is more than a little bit of a schemer, and that she is willing to do ethically dubious things. I hate Sylvanas' character because of her actions - meddling with blight, trying to draw some distinction between herself and Arthas when they're continuing to blur what separates her from him when it comes to resurrecting the fallen, going so far as to use his Val'kyr.

That doesn't mean I dislike her characterization. I think it's an interesting tactic to take, it makes her seem untrustworthy, possibly like she's going to betray Garrosh through Cataclysm (which was never realized, though, again, interesting possibility), and that she will sacrifice potentially every other member of the Horde to keep the Forsaken together. But that characterization is also precisely what makes her an awful candidate for Warchief. You need the Horde to have some faith in the leadership of their leader, and Sylvanas has been shown repeatedly to be a scheming, manipulative liar.

Does she have many attributes that are very important to leading? Sure. Does she have experience and will some of her scheming and manipulation help, politically with the Alliance? Absolutely. But don't pretend for an instant that it's not a two-edged sword that could be used to hurt her internally. And in keeping with the distrust that has been built up against her, it isn't in line with the characterizations of the other leaders to simply say "oh okay that's cool."

As for the sad little attempt to suggest that "you don't like Sylvanas, you hate women," go read some Ghostbusters 2016 threads. There are character inconsistencies and logical loopholes in the decision as presented here. It's no different than me saying "if you want Sylvanas to lead, you're a braindead fanboy and nothing you say is anything but a diversion." It's insulting to people who have a point and it's insulting to your own intelligence that you can't create and present a cogent argument.

[Sansnom]

Sylvanas is just the perfect example of modern day feminism. "We need a strong female leader, to show that we appreciate both genders". Don't believe me, just look at some of the latest movies, star wars main female lead, complete mary sue didn't need help from males, Ghostbusters, turned cast into females for no reason other than female impowerment. Sylvanas being covered up was not an artistic decision, it was made because blizzard wanted feminists to be happy.

Geeze. Why can't people just accept that Blizzard decided Sylvannas would be the best choice out of a poor selection pool rather than try to put political spin on it. As for GhostBusters, the writers wants to do something different. What is wrong with that?

And you named two movies out of how many? Strong female leads has been around way before these movies.

Personally, I am happy to see people willingly to "buck the trend" and try something new and different. Female GhostBusters. So? Are you saying women cannot be ghostbusters? Instead they should cower in fear?

[Mehrunes]

For once I agree, Alliance filth! It's like... you had a Military Commander and Veteran of 4 bloody wars, Saurfang. Brother to Broxxigar himself, and you don't choose him to lead? He's old, but he's still kicking he'd have a few years left. And by that time Baine could've easily taken over. Even a tauren Is better then an undead. Seriously, I think the Fel in Vol'jin tricked him into thinking the Loa spirits speak to him, and It was actually Dread Lords... It's like preperation for the Invasion like In the Third War.

Sylvanas is most likely older than all known Saurfang combined and has been Ranger General for a long time, then the Banshee Queen. Except for the short period when she was Scourge's general and the joint Horde operations, she was the primary leader of her forces. Saurfang was always second-in-command with the exception of the Might of Kalimdor. And brother to Broxigar as an argument? That's nepotism.

Also read the books, she does care about stuff. She just overcompensates like fucking crazy because she's enormously insecure about being a rotting, fetid mess. When her sister decides not to join her, she has a tantrum from the rejection.

Technically speaking, the Forsaken don't rot.

[Demontjuh]

All three of them are solid, trustworthy leaders. Yet he chooses Sylvanas.

"I have never trusted you... But the spirits told me to so I'm making you warchief." *dies*

10/10 storytelling Blizzard

it be cus da spirits knows... da warchief is destined to die so they be makin sylvanas da next victim....

[Sansnom]

Sylvanas knows the enemy well. Moreso she has WON before. And most importantly, but also the possible plot twist/ending, Sylvanas is running out of valkyr to take her place when she dies, when she is on her last she has a huge choice to make. The forsaken need valkyr to make more forsaken, without the valkyr the forsaken are done.

I never did fully understand or follow the whole undead thing. So what is so difficult in making or find new valkyr? So that they needed to resurrect the dead back into undead.

[sheggaro]

I like it, but tbh Thrall would have been the obvious choice.

[Nerevar]

Saurfang isn't fit to be warchief. He's a good soldier, but that's all he is - a soldier. Baine is too young and impulsive. Lor'themar... Too impulsive as well. He was ready to leave the Horde during MoP because Garrosh was too harsh on his people.

[Prada]

What Voljin saw in his vision was a zombie plague, eradicating all life including demons...(maybe).....sometimes you need a baddy to kill a baddy.
All hail the coming of bolvar the dragon-fire lich-king

[Niwes]

i dont get blizzards storytelling for horde, since years. in the beginning (vanilla - wrath), it looked like most writers and ofc metzen were like "4thehorde", in short: pro-horde. alliance always felt like that standard elves, dwarves etc, which also needs a story, so blizz said "ok, lets do horde stories/chars/etc, and at the end lets do something (between toilet and lunch) for the alliance. many ppl had that feeling in these times. also, horde wasnt just the "monsters". blizzard always watched carefully that horde are just "the underdogs", not the bad guys. the brave, the blood and honor. the warriors. the emotionals.

now, lets look what horde is since a few years:

- sylvanas: bad guy. often promoted as the dark/bad guy.
- baine: lame idiot. watching garrosh killing his father and goes "ok, welll, thats that. its ok."
- goblin chief: bad guy. plain simple greedy money maker.
- thrall: green jesus. totally gay.
- voljin: neutral. but was nonexistent as warchief.
- lorthemar: neutral. and nonexistent since years. did i hear more than 5 statements in the last 3 addons ?
- garrsoh: became (super)bad guy
- saurfang: nonexistent.
- i wanna write about other prominent horde chars, but ... i dont see anymore of em.

there was a time were horde was a council of underdogs. sympatic. honored. cool. in the last few addons they just look like loosely coupled punks of some bad guys and some lame idiots. the complete horde feeling is gone since years, for me. they are today like the monsters, the bad guys, you also have to have in a video game. the ones that no one wanna play for real. ofc horde side is the bigger one (or equal) but i doubt the horde become big, if all ppl would start today.

its funny when i see all the ppl telling alliance guys: but sylvanas had to leave at broken shore! they had to save their lives!

its exactly the same thing, i try to convince myself to not say: that honored (blood and honor and fight to death) guys, get pee pee in their eyes and did the logical "tactic" and saved emselves to fight on another day when they could maybe win. while the lame standard tolkien elves, humans, dwarves fight till dead. thats hillarious. it just sucks.

i just dont get it, what blizz (the horde lovers) did with the horde the last few years and what they wanna telling us with all that steps and char development. i dont get it.

[Tya]

Baine is an irrelevant nobody with little to no plot.

Lor'themar is an irrelevant nobody with little to no plot.

Saurfang might've worked but with the previous orc warrior warchief fresh in the Horde's mind, who would want that again?

[JustRob]

Baine is an irrelevant nobody with little to no plot.

Lor'themar is an irrelevant nobody with little to no plot.

Saurfang might've worked but with the previous orc warrior warchief fresh in the Horde's mind, who would want that again?

And they forever will be irrelevant nobodies until Blizzard gives them plot. We've seen plenty of Sylvanas already, why not give someone else the spotlight?

Or better yet, develop Vol'jin instead of killing him off. He ended up being the most underdeveloped, boring warchief ever.

[Niwes]

And they forever will be irrelevant nobodies until Blizzard gives them plot. We've seen plenty of Sylvanas already, why not give someone else the spotlight?

Or better yet, develop Vol'jin instead of killing him off. He ended up being the most underdeveloped, boring warchief ever.

yep. exactly. all of that. they could have done such great things with voljin. stupiest idea ever to kill him, just for the sake of "lets shock ppl and kill chiefs" (before they even did ANYTHING with cahr dev of voljin). thats just interssting if you had some connection to you warchief. i met ppl today (no joke) asking in /2 who voljin was. that says all.

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i play horde since release. and an alliance "2nd main" since 3-4 years. and its just sad what blizz do with horde char/lore wise. its brutally lame, stereotype-ish, and totally undifferentiated. especially in the last one of them, horde always was great in the first few years. now its like playing an even lamer version of alliance, but just in the "bad guys" side, instead the "good gays" side...