The Horde's performance at Broken Shore is quite pathetic

[sunxsera]

I'm sorry to say, but it's true.

After watching both the Alliance and the Horde cinematics several times, I have come to this conclusion.

Sylvanas and the rest of the Horde pick a ridge to flank the Legion. But before long, they get buttfucked from behind. How? How do you not have the rear covered? How did they sneak up on you like that?

The mighty Thrall is crawling around on the ground like he had one too many beers. God only knows what happened to him in the five seconds we didn't see him to send him on his knees like that.

Vol'jin gets stabbed in the stomach, not from behind, but from the front, by a felguard that he MUST have seen charging towards him.

Baine is the only one who actually manages to keep standing and fighting, and has to drag the all powerful world-shaman away from the battlefield.

And then Sylvanas signals the retreat and gets everyone out of there.

Horde, I'm disappointed. That performance was just sad.

I play both sides - equaly ... and i `m much more proud of the alliance after the broken shore. The horde had it good enough the last 2 expansions.
But op ... ingame bane doesnt fight anymore - he gets ported back to sylvanas ... thrall and the others get overrun by the legion.

Horde just lost at this point - and had to leave ... the alliance was much stronger in this battle.

I hope we will see a badass jaina or even anduin this expansion ...

[Cwimge]

ITT: Alliance plebs who did not actually know what happened on the ridge that day

thrall and vol'jin getting rekt?
the horde facing stiff resistance and collapsing instantly?

[Tyrathius]

The Alliance was facing down practically every named demon we've seen thus far, and by Varian's dialogue ("Victory is ours! ..."We finish this now. Call in the gunship!") they were actually winning until the Horde pulled out.

Meanwhile, the Horde was fighting a bunch of no name demons and practically everyone but Sylvanas got owned.

All bias aside, I don't think it's a lie to say the Alliance put up a far more impressive fight here.

[Hctaz]

So many people have already said it but yeah. There were like a solid thousand demons we were stalling in order to prevent them from wrecking the alliance. The Dark Rangers might have been able to help us if there weren't so many flying demons that they had to keep off of the Alliance as well. We basically only had the ground troops who were able to hold off the demons on the ridge and there were SO many of them it was crazy.

In the horde scenario Sylvanas calls for multiple retreats. First she tells us all the assault the demons which we do. They start teleporting in from another location and she tells us to fall back to the ridge in order to see all sides of the onslaught. Only after we hold them off for a little longer does the cinematic play. They literally swarm the horde from all angles in that scenario. The cutscene definitely did not reflect the in game events very well.

[FelPlague]

What is so complicated about sticking the pointy end of the sword into a monstrously huge target like that head? Like you're seriously saying that Genn would have to min/max his use of the blade and shit just to stab the pointy end into a head that is for the most part immobile and 5 times his size. If you can't properly stab a target like that with a sword then you probably didn't even have the coordination to dress yourself in the morning. Also, Genn was a man most of his life before he became a worgen, so he has more experienced wielding modern weaponry (such as swords) than he does with his claws.

I mean, let me put it to you this way, if I gave you a sword and asked you to stab a car that isn't moving with it, do you think you could hit your mark regardless of your experience with that specific blade, it's weight distribution, it's reach, it's curve, etc.? Because that's feat is pretty much what we're talking about here. It's not rocket science and there's no need to intricate swordplay, Varian literally just pointed the blade at the head and used the force of his fall to push it in there. In fact, Genn would've had an easier time of it since he was higher up which would've resulted in a slightly higher acceleration due to gravity which would mean that the blade would have force behind it.

the same thing thats complicated of using a high powered sniper rifle? like come on its just point and shoot, nothing special about that!
stabbing something is not as simpel as "aim and thrust" you need to know how to hold the sword, how to counter the weight to make sure the end stabs, specially with a two tipped blade like that...

[Derah]

you can tell a hardcore horde player when you see them for sure

And I can tell a hardcore alliance player when I see them for sure.

(and no i play mostly horde, but my main is alliance...

This is a literal contradiction. Either your main is horde, or is alliance. The reason a character is considered a MAIN, is because its the one you MAINly play as. If you MAINLY play an alliance toon, you don't play "mostly" horde.

been playing horde for 8 years, so no dont try to "alliance fanboi" me...)

Alliancefanboi.

whoops. Too late.

Now that we got that silliness out of the way, time to munch on some poorly constructed counter-arguments.

*cracks fingers*

the cannons were under the reavers arm,

You know what else was under the arm? the head. Blow that apart, and the reaver looses its grip on the ship, as varian aptly demonstrated. He didn't slice off the reaver's arm, he sliced open its head. Nearly a dozen cannons at pointblank range can do the exact same thing.

idk, maybe because technically half the army left since the horde left, why would the alliance stay? they knew they had no chance... dude stop trying to turn this on the alliance "the alliance dident stay till half their army died, its their fault we lost" its more of "the horde retreated, whatever they had that forced them to retreat, will be on us soon, were surronded, we have no more cover ,we need to get out of here"

you can try to spin this as much as you like, but at the end of the day, the horde only retreated when they were almost dead. The alliance retreated at the literal first sign of trouble.

it was seconds, and no they dident, you even see in the cinematic that the horde wasent keeping the skies clear

its written "wasn't" and "didn't". Come on, english isn't my main language, and I'm better at using it than you are?

And the cinematic took place after the horde was overrun, so no shit the skies were no longer clear. What part of "the horde army was being bombarded by fel carriers from the sky" wasn't clear enough? The horde kept the skies clear for the alliance during the battle, by the time the cinematics took place, horde was overrun, they couldn't hold back the tide, and they had to pull away.

the alliance was going for guldan but there was TONS of demons between them and guldan, so they were trying but there was tons of demons

Ohh so this excuse works for them, but not for the horde. Boo-hoo, alliance tried to do its job, but they couldn't because there were too many demons. Meanwhile, horde are cowards and traitors, because they were fighting too many demons.

Are you seeing the hypocrisy right now? or need some more help to see it? The point that the game was trying to convey, is that BOTH sides were dealing with a lot of shit, both sides went there completely unprepared (har har insert illidan quote here) for an invasion this massive, and completely unprepared for the legion having fucking spaceships, which is something they had never used before. Both sides got hammered hard. The key difference here, is that the horde understands what happened. But some parts of the alliance (particularly the players, not so much the actual in-game alliance) are too stupid to notice this, and instead do what alliance does best when the shit hits the fan: They cry like fucking babies. Because that's all they're good for. Crying. Like babies.

WHA!!

lol did you even SEE THE ARMY that appeared for the fucking alliance!? malganis, jarraxus, brutalis, the twin eredar sisters what the fuck are you smoking!?

lol, did you even SEE THE ARMY that appeared for the fucking horde!? just as many named demons as in the alliance, plus way more ground troops (Alliance had two waves, horde had endless nonstop stream) plus aerial troops, plus fucking spaceships shooting lasers at us.

What, you think that because on the alliance side there were a lot of recognizable names, all of the sudden what they faced was worse than what we faced? There were just as many boss-level named legion generals on our side. Granted, the ones on our side were new names, but you know what all those recognizable names in the alliance side had in common? They were beaten before. All of them. Munch on that for a second. And the alliance had no fel carriers on their side, and until the horde got overrun, they also had no felbats to worry about.

They also had air support in the form of a gunship (The horde one had crashed, you can see its wreckage shortly before meeting sylvanas on the broken shore) and one of their leaders was piloting a fucking 7-foot tall exo-combat mech.

Alliance has no excuses.

only genn and jaina are mad at the horde, the rest have left it behind and understood, thats like saying "garrosh was bad, all of the orcs, all of the horde, even the tauren, troll, bloodelves, everyone should be purged...

Read what I said will ya? I never claimed that ALL of the alliance is blaming the horde. In fact, in another thread I specifically pointed out how most of the alliance leaders are perfectly willing to work with horde heroes in legion, including but not limited to: Velen, Tyrande, Malfurion, Vereesa, Modera, Boros, etc.

I said that after being handed a massive defeat, the horde responded with solidarity, unity, conviction, we licked our wounds, dusted off, and began planning the next assault. The funeral of Vol'jin was covered with a resounding "FOR VOL'JIN" "FOR THE HORDE!!!!!".

Meanwhile, the alliance's reaction to being given a massive defeat? Bickering, insubordination, whining, fragmentation. The Funeral of varian was marred by arguments, in-fighting, disobedience, and tantrums. Within minutes of being crowned high king, Anduin was explicitly disobeyed by Jaina, and shortly after had the Kirin Tor leave the alliance again, and then shortly after that, had Rogers and Greymane directly disobey his explicit orders yet again in stormheim.

mass teleporting takes alot of prep, and concentration... something she had neither of... no time, no safty...

Right, because it took jaina a lot of time, prep, and concentration when she auto-ported the entire alliance army out of the undercity in Wrath.

Because it took Khadgar to mass teleport everyone out of Blackhand's ship in talador on WoD.

Right? right? WRONG.

mhm because the alliance were no longer able to hold at all, and let the horde have their time,

And now the horde was no longer able to hold at all, so we let the alliance have their time. See how that works?

the alliance was holding off, to give the horde time to set up,

Wrong, play the warcraft 3 mission again. Horde and alliance had already built up their defenses. The plan was "you buy us time for as long as you can". Which she did, and then she withdrew.

Here in the broken shore, the plan was "we buy you time for as long as we can, and you get the job done" which we did. Then we withdrew.

and she dident leave them to die

for the love of god, its DIDN'T. Abbreviation of "did not". Come on, this isn't so hard.

And what the fuck did you expect the horde to do? jump from the cliff to hopefully splat some demons on the way down? The horde was separated from the alliance by a 50feet tall cliff wall. We held our side for as long as we could, then we had to retreat. There was no way to provide any assistance to the alliance from our end, just like the alliance had no way to provide assistance on ours. At least the alliance had someone with teleportation capabilities who for plot convenience forgot how to use them at the worst possible time.

all meanwhile having a small army (us) help defend both...

Bullshit. She left no troops. Again, play the warcraft 3 mission one more time, because your memory stinks. Jaina got overrun, she teleported her troops to safety. Then the horde got overrun, jaina teleported the horde troops to safety. This leads us to......

she dident leave them to die with no warning like the horde did on the broken shore...

The horn was a very clear and obvious retreat signal. In fact, the alliance was able to evacuate most of their people on the gunship when they saw the horde withdraw. It was just shit luck that gul'dan summoned a reaver when they were pulling out, something that the horde had zero control of.

Also, since you're comparing this, Jaina saved her own people first during warcraft 3, then came back for the horde, because these attacks didn't took place at the same time. The legion hit her first, she ported to safety, then the legion hit the horde, and way later she came and ported them to safety when they were overrun.

Entirely different to the broken shore, in which both sides were being attacked at the same time, one worse than the other. Also, the main reason I'm comparing Jaina's reaction to the broken shore, to her actions in warcraft 3, is because last time, she had to buy off time for someone else, but then she retreated when she was overwhelmed. She is now giving shit to the horde for doing the exact same thing she did last time the legion was around.

man you can really tell you are a hardcore horde elitist

Man you can really tell you're a hardcore alliance elitist. No, your little spiel about playing "mostly" horde doesn't fool me one bit. Even your sig has a human character.

no you are pathetic for being so god danm stupid

Tsk tsk tsk. Ahh the good ol' ad hominem. Endless companion for the one who has nothing useful to say. Don't expect me to lower to your level. I'm just gonna report you and move on.

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Not as horrible as the shitty death of your boy Vol'jin tho. He got stabbed once and died sitting on his ass in a chair. What a hero's death.

I find it funny that you ignore my comment in which I deconstructed your points so thoroughly I can smell the burning marks from here.

[Deleted]

You need to stop watching the cinematic and actually play the horde version of the scenario. The cinematic doesn't properly convey the massacre that was going on in that cliff. Mainly because the "horde" cinematic only has like 15 seconds of actual horde screentime, and then 4 uninterrupted minutes of Varian Fan Wank.

What does the alliance have to deal with on their side? Two waves of ground troops. That's it.

What does the horde have to deal with on our side? endless waves of ground troops, an infinite stream of aerial troops (Which our archers kept away from your side down to the last second) and fucking legion fel carriers bombing the living shit out of our troops.



They didn't sneak, they were there from the start, we kept that massive tide of demons away from the alliance for as long as possible, but there's only so much you can do when legion spaceships are blasting you from the sky.



God only knows? wrong. Do the scenario. He received a combined blast by all three spaceships. To the chest dude.



Exhaustion will do that to you



Not exactly. Baine was blasted by the spaceships too, and had to be carried back to sylvanas.



Ohh you wanna talk about sad?

Lets talk about sad.

Lets talk about how the horde had to fight off FAR MORE than the alliance did (Ground troops, aerial troops, and fucking spaceships) and yet we held the line and even managed to evacuate everyone without the need of one of us having to sacrifice himself for the rest. Meanwhile, a fucking alliance gunship with enough artillery on both sides to flatten a city, can't get a fel reaver to release its grip on it, despite having nearly a dozen cannons trained on him. AT POINTBLANK RANGE.

Lets talk about how the horde refused to retreat until most of our army was wiped out by the orbital bombardment by the legion spaceships, and 3 out of 4 of our leaders were down, one of them fatally injured. While the alliance was perfectly okay, all four of their leaders were fine, most of their army was intact, yet the minute, THE SECOND, that things began to look bad, they didn't hold the line, they ran away immediately.

Lets talk about how the plan was that the horde would buy the alliance time to do its part of the job on that cliff, and the alliance had to charge through and finish the legion down there, yet even though the horde did its part of the job (We bought you the time you needed) Varian wasted this precious time making fancy speeches instead of shutting up and getting the job done (Sylvanas had to at one point scold Varian with the perfect "Less chatting Wrynn, KILL HIM ALREADY!!!").

Lets talk about how despite not having to deal with even half the shit the horde was facing up on that cliff, your side was still completely incapable of reaching gul'dan and end all of this, even though, as mentioned above, all four of your leads were perfectly okay, you only had ground troops to deal with, you had air support and we didn't, and one of your leaders was piloting a fucking battlemech. What, was it too hard to shoot a missile barrage at gul'dan or something?

Lets talk about how when all its said and done, and a massive crippling defeat is delivered to BOTH sides, the horde's first and immediate concern is about reorganizing, regrouping, and starting to plan the next assault, all of the horde united in solidarity in this moment of dire need, while the alliance is bitching, whining, bickering amongst themselves, and moaning about perceived backstabs betrayals and abandonment issues instead of focusing on the real menace here, which they KNOW they can't defeat by themselves.

You wanted to talk about pathetic? There, we talked about pathetic. You and your alliance are fucking pathetic.

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They are too busy hanging out with Velen, Tyrande, the dwarf leads, and that pandaren chick who they also obviously don't care about anymore as she was a one expansion character.

Both sides had missing leaders. I guess they felt it was pointless to send the entire leadership of both sides to battle, just in case something bad happened. In hindsight that was a good idea.



He wasn't at the broken shore. The broken shore takes place at the same time as the second half of the demon hunter starting zone, and he's there, to send the illidari to stormwind and to orgrimmar.



Well he was busy securing extra allies for the fight against the legion, miles away from that carnage. So at least he has a justification for not mass porting everyone away. Jaina however, didn't teleport anyone because she's a useless psychotic bitch who is only good for bitching, moaning, and raging like a toddler.

Come on, she was in this situation the last time the legion came a'knocking. She held off Archimonde for as long as she could to buy time for someone else to do some mumbo-jumbo, and when her forces were overwhelmed, she fled, teleporting everyone away.

Now here we are, and she's giving shit to the horde for doing the exact same thing she did the last time the legion is here.

alliance have to deal with every single demonic raid boss and npc that we have literaly faced in warcraft 3 and wow so far for example you can see the sunwell twins right in the middle of the spawning demons just before the cinema starts.

[Treeskee]

I mean honestly, where's Med'an when you need him.

[Derah]

I mean honestly, where's Med'an when you need him.

He's too busy being awesome somewhere else. If we're lucky, somewhere very VERY VERY far away. From which he'll never ever return.

He can go be a priestpaladinmageshamandruidwarlockmonkcirquedusoleiljuggler somewhere else. We don't need him.

[Ielenia]

Lets talk about sad.

Lets talk about how the horde had to fight off FAR MORE than the alliance did (Ground troops, aerial troops, and fucking spaceships)

Yeah, having to fight Brutallus, Jaraxxus, and other big-name demons as well as a huge horde of demons is easy, because they're not fighting aerial demons-- oh, wait. The are, as we see aerial demons swooping down to attack the Alliance.

even managed to evacuate everyone without the need of one of us having to sacrifice himself for the rest.

Probably because Gul'dan didn't summon a gigangic Fel Reaver to attack their ships...

Meanwhile, a fucking alliance gunship with enough artillery on both sides to flatten a city, can't get a fel reaver to release its grip on it, despite having nearly a dozen cannons trained on him. AT POINTBLANK RANGE.

'Dozen cannons'? We only see three on one side, and I'd bet, at best four. Plus the way the Fel Reaver cruses the side of the ship can possibly cause damage to the cannons.

Lets talk about how the horde refused to retreat until most of our army was wiped out by the orbital bombardment by the legion spaceships, and 3 out of 4 of our leaders were down, one of them fatally injured. While the alliance was perfectly okay, all four of their leaders were fine, most of their army was intact, yet the minute, THE SECOND, that things began to look bad, they didn't hold the line, they ran away immediately.

Probably because they saw that, with half their forces already retreating, they don't have the forces necessary to power through the unending tide of demons coming from the portal and being summoned by Gul'dan.

Lets talk about how the plan was that the horde would buy the alliance time to do its part of the job on that cliff, and the alliance had to charge through and finish the legion down there, yet even though the horde did its part of the job (We bought you the time you needed) Varian wasted this precious time making fancy speeches instead of shutting up and getting the job done (Sylvanas had to at one point scold Varian with the perfect "Less chatting Wrynn, KILL HIM ALREADY!!!").

Did you miss the every-increasing line of demons between Gul'dan and the Alliance, there?

Lets talk about how despite not having to deal with even half the shit the horde was facing up on that cliff,

From the look of things, the Alliance was facing just as much as the Horde was, down there, including air foes. We could even say that the Horde was weak since it was basically already down while the Alliance forces were still mostly up.

your side was still completely incapable of reaching gul'dan and end all of this, even though, as mentioned above, all four of your leads were perfectly okay, you only had ground troops to deal with, you had air support and we didn't, and one of your leaders was piloting a fucking battlemech. What, was it too hard to shoot a missile barrage at gul'dan or something?

On that token, why wasn't Sylvanas raising the bodies of dead demons and Horde soldiers as undead soldiers to continue fighting? She had Val'kyr to do that for her, so why didn't she? I imagine that if someone is willing to die to stop the Burning Legion they would also be willing to become undead to keep on fighting.

Lets talk about how when all its said and done, and a massive crippling defeat is delivered to BOTH sides, the horde's first and immediate concern is about reorganizing, regrouping, and starting to plan the next assault, all of the horde united in solidarity in this moment of dire need, while the alliance is bitching, whining, bickering amongst themselves, and moaning about perceived backstabs betrayals and abandonment issues instead of focusing on the real menace here, which they KNOW they can't defeat by themselves.

Call me when you have someone on the Horde leader who always fought for peace have their city completely wiped out from existence by the faction she always helped, even in detriment of her own faction, and another Horde leader who lost not only their entire kingdom, but also their offspring to the Alliance during the capital's siege.

[Derah]

Yeah, having to fight Brutallus, Jaraxxus, and other big-name demons as well as a huge horde of demons is easy, because they're not fighting aerial demons-- oh, wait. The are, as we see aerial demons swooping down to attack the Alliance.

The horde side also had boss-level demons in there, and as for the aerial demons, you only see them in the alliance side on the cinematic, which takes place after the horde was overrun, before the cinematic, there's not a single aerial demon on the alliance's side. Also there were no fel carriers bombing the shit out of your people on the final part. There were several on the horde side (It was those fel carriers that incapacitated Thrall, when all 3 of them fired a combined blast to his face)

Probably because Gul'dan didn't summon a gigangic Fel Reaver to attack their ships...

There was no need, again, there were THREE FUCKING CAPITAL-SIZED SPACESHIPS bombing the shit out of our troops. And they didn't came waaaay at the end like the fel reaver on the alliance's side, they came right from the fucking start.

'Dozen cannons'? We only see three on one side, and I'd bet, at best four. Plus the way the Fel Reaver cruses the side of the ship can possibly cause damage to the cannons.

I said nearly dozen. Count them up next time you stand next to an alliance gunship. They have four big cannons on the lower side of the ship, and five big cannons on the upper side of the ship. Given that the ship was tilted to the side, all of the cannons had a clear line of sight to the reaver's head, which was pretty fucking big.

lets be generous here, and pretend that the reaver's hand did indeed cripple or otherwise disabled half the cannons on the side he was gripping, that'd still leave half a dozen cannons at least in perfect condition to pry it loose.

Probably because they saw that, with half their forces already retreating, they don't have the forces necessary to power through the unending tide of demons coming from the portal and being summoned by Gul'dan.

Point remains that the horde only fled when they were about to die. Alliance fled at the first sign of trouble. Yet somehow WE are the cowards?

Did you miss the every-increasing line of demons between Gul'dan and the Alliance, there?

Did you miss the tidal wave of endless troops, spaceships, and aerial troops on our side? Of course you did, the cinematic didn't show them, you'd have to do the scenario to see them. And the main reason the cinematic didn't show them was because it was barely a minute of horde screentime, and then almost four minutes of Varian Fan Wank.

From the look of things, the Alliance was facing just as much as the Horde was, down there, including air foes.

They weren't. I did the bloody thing m'kay? You had two waves of about 20 demons each. On the ground. Nothing on the sky because we kept them away from you (Until the cinematic, which is where we got overrun) Then you get the cinematic. The horde had an endless non-interrupted stream of demons, on land and on air, and then 3 gigantic spaceships bombing the shit out of our troops. It was those ships that caused the horde leaders to fall.

On that token, why wasn't Sylvanas raising the bodies of dead demons and Horde soldiers as undead soldiers to continue fighting? She had Val'kyr to do that for her, so why didn't she?

Because she can only raise humans. Just humans. The Val'kyrs are not all-powerful, they can only ress vry'kul, and the descendants of vry'kul (Aka: Humans). This is why the alliance sent only non-human troops to Pyrewood village during cataclysm, because if they died, sylvanas wouldn't be able to ress them.

Call me when you have someone on the Horde leader who always fought for peace have their city completely wiped out from existence by the faction she always helped, even in detriment of her own faction

If you're talking about Jaina, she had a treaty of non-aggression with the horde that protected her city for years,until she decided to break it during cataclysm.

She decided to make herself a target by attacking the horde. Don't fuck with the bull if you don't wanna get the horns. She lost all rights to bitching about her city being bombed when she decided to send her troops to attack the horde on THREE different fronts. Bear in mind that all of this happened BEFORE the shattering took place, and took the horde forces by surprise.

Even then, the horde gave her ample warning of the attack, days ahead, to give her time to evacuate all civilians and bulk up her defenses. She displayed no such courtesies when she attacked the horde at so many fronts.

and another Horde leader who lost not only their entire kingdom, but also their offspring to the Alliance during the capital's siege.

and if you're talking about Genn here, that warmongering asshole needs to let go of old grudges. his son died in a war. A war that is now over.

[Crazykeven]

From the look of things, the Alliance was facing just as much as the Horde was, down there, including air foes. We could even say that the Horde was weak since it was basically already down while the Alliance forces were still mostly up.

The Horde archers were defending the Alliance from the aerial assault.

The Horde didn't have any support from the Alliance.

The Alliance ran away when the Horde couldn't defend them anymore.

The Horde fought the whole time without the Alliance support to begin with.

It's no ones fault, Gul'Dan and the Legion kicked the mighty forces of Azeroth's asses. As i've said before, even if we did kill Gul'dan, it wouldn't have mattered, we still had no way of shutting down the portal. So even if we got to the portal, stepping over Gul'Dan's corpse, we all would have been swamped because there was no way that portal was being shut down. If we didn't retreat when we did, everyone would have died.

[Zyky]

The Alliance and the Horde both sucked a big fat one, Only Varian came out looking good because he spent his last breath having a moment.

We got wrecked, so don't make this into 'the alliance was truly a superior force' No, it wasn't, your king was a superior force, and he died in a blaze of glory, that was the only thing that tipped the alliance point counter over the hordes here.

Gul'dan played tiddlywinks with the alliance down on the floor while he blasted the horde with the heavy fire up on the cliff. Strategically brilliant to be honest.

My question is, where the fuck was Jaina? She was there, yet she was the only person on Alliance side that didn't have screen time, not even a spell cast seen in the background.

[Zoldor]

I honestly feel a lack of magic users from both sides. Thrall was not using enough Shaman abilities and we only sent warriors and Hunters? How do you not send Warlocks and Mages to fight Demons.....I'm baffled all around by the chosen tactics.

Also, Horde gets a new Warchief, everyone accepts. Alliance loosing its King, the faction looses its mind. The times the leadership has changed hands for the horde vs the alliance is hilarious. Get used to it, leaders die, especially ones foolishly saccing themselves without a way out...or I don't know a fucking mage.

[Ielenia]

There was no need, again, there were THREE FUCKING CAPITAL-SIZED SPACESHIPS bombing the shit out of our troops.

That are nowhere to be seen in the cinematic and for some reason don't pursue the Horde when they retreat, as we can see Sylvanas reaching the ships without any bomb falling near her and then later we see her sailing away without any issues whatsoever.

Point remains that the horde only fled when they were about to die. Alliance fled at the first sign of trouble. Yet somehow WE are the cowards?

One left when there was still a chance for victory. The other left because, without the other, there was no chance of success. Also: remind me which of the faction likes to chant "Lok'tar ogar", which happens to mean "victory or death"?

If you're talking about Jaina, she had a treaty of non-aggression with the horde that protected her city for years,until she decided to break it during cataclysm.

She decided to make herself a target by attacking the horde. Don't fuck with the bull if you don't wanna get the horns. She lost all rights to bitching about her city being bombed when she decided to send her troops to attack the horde on THREE different fronts. Bear in mind that all of this happened BEFORE the shattering took place, and took the horde forces by surprise.

Even then, the horde gave her ample warning of the attack, days ahead, to give her time to evacuate all civilians and bulk up her defenses. She displayed no such courtesies when she attacked the horde at so many fronts.

The issue isn't with the attack itself, but how Garrosh massively escalated it using the mana-bomb that completely erradicated Theramore and transformed the bodies of the dead into ethereal dust, making a resurrection impossible.

and if you're talking about Genn here, that warmongering asshole needs to let go of old grudges. his son died in a war. A war that is now over.

It's over? I'm pretty sure that the war isn't over, considering Gilneas doesn't belong to any faction right now, and is constant grounds in the still on-going war.

[Derah]

That are nowhere to be seen in the cinematic

You said it yourself. In the cinematic. On the actual scenario? They're there. They didn't add them to the horde cinematic because what's the point, its only 40 seconds of horde screen time, and then its right back to Varian circlejerk.

and for some reason don't pursue the Horde when they retreat, as we can see Sylvanas reaching the ships without any bomb falling near her and then later we see her sailing away without any issues whatsoever.

They didn't pursue the alliance either, my best guess is that they wanted to toy with their prey.

One left when there was still a chance for victory. The other left because, without the other, there was no chance of success.

No, when the horde left, there was no chance for victory. Even had they remained, what would have happened? The horde would have still been unable to provide support to the alliance. Being under heavy bombardment from the spaceships and all. Had they remained, they would have died, and the alliance would have been overrun anyways.

Understand that the alliance was faring better because they were being defended by the horde. The horde on the other hand was receiving no support from the alliance. The alliance fled the moment they had no support from the horde. The horde fought from start to finish without needing alliance support in the first place.

And even considering these four factors, at the end of the day, the horde fought until near death before they sounded the retreat. The alliance fled at the literal first sign of trouble.

Also: remind me which of the faction likes to chant "Lok'tar ogar", which happens to mean "victory or death"?

Lok'tar Ogar is applied to wars, not battles. Name me one war where you don't lose even a single battle. Go on, I'm waiting. At least after the defeat the horde stood united in solidarity, and single-minded cooperation and discipline, even chanting a mighty "FOR THE HORDE" during Vol'jin's funeral.

Meanwhile, Varian's funeral was marred by bickering, whining, and straight up insubordination to the new high king, mere minutes after his coronation.

The issue isn't with the attack itself, but how Garrosh massively escalated it using the mana-bomb that completely erradicated Theramore and transformed the bodies of the dead into ethereal dust, making a resurrection impossible.

Again, don't want to be fucked with? don't fuck with others. She knew what she was getting into when she chose to break the non-aggression treaty she had with orgrimmar, which up until now, had kept her lands safe.

It's over? I'm pretty sure that the war isn't over

Its over. At the end of Siege of Orgrimmar, Jaina urged varian to seize the moment and attacked the horde. Varian instead chose to end the war.

His specific words were: "But some among you fought against Garrosh's tyranny. For that, I am willing to end this bloodshed."

And with the exception of ashran, its canonicity being questionable at best, the alliance and horde fully cooperate with each other and work side-by-side on draenor.

considering Gilneas doesn't belong to any faction right now

Gameplay-wise. Lore-wise, gilneas is once again inhabited by gilneans. Just like lorewise gnomeregan was reclaimed and thermaplugg was bisected by Gelbin, yet that doesn't show up in the game.

[Shaqthefat]

I'm sorry to say, but it's true.

After watching both the Alliance and the Horde cinematics several times, I have come to this conclusion.

Sylvanas and the rest of the Horde pick a ridge to flank the Legion. But before long, they get buttfucked from behind. How? How do you not have the rear covered? How did they sneak up on you like that?

The mighty Thrall is crawling around on the ground like he had one too many beers. God only knows what happened to him in the five seconds we didn't see him to send him on his knees like that.

Vol'jin gets stabbed in the stomach, not from behind, but from the front, by a felguard that he MUST have seen charging towards him.

Baine is the only one who actually manages to keep standing and fighting, and has to drag the all powerful world-shaman away from the battlefield.

And then Sylvanas signals the retreat and gets everyone out of there.

Horde, I'm disappointed. That performance was just sad.

If you played the horde side you would noticed they got hit by a laser beam being shot from 3 legion battle ships....

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone keeps saying Thrall lost his connection to the elements, but he could still create an earth bridge perfectly fine and he was holding his own using his shaman powers until some incredible foe forced him to crawl on the ground

He was hit by 3 beams from 3 legion battle ships.

[Revak]

He was hit by 3 beams from 3 legion battle ships.

And yet he still lived. This is one of the many reasons people are tired of orcs, especially Thrall.


All I know is that the leader of the alliance went out like a badass taking down a giant fel reaver by himself and trying to fight his way to Guldan while his people escaped. The leader of the horde died b/c he was exhausted from the fight and got stabbed in the stomach.

If anyone deserved to die in this entire battle; it was Thrall. FFS!

[kail]

Quite the one sided POV you got there, but I'll enjoy those extra salty tears .

[Lime]

Lets talk about how the horde refused to retreat until most of our army was wiped out by the orbital bombardment by the legion spaceships, and 3 out of 4 of our leaders were down, one of them fatally injured. While the alliance was perfectly okay, all four of their leaders were fine, most of their army was intact, yet the minute, THE SECOND, that things began to look bad, they didn't hold the line, they ran away immediately.

I was agreeing with your post until I saw this. You're sounding just as bad as Rob.

How is it sad to retreat when a large portion of your offensive (the Horde) end up retreating? Hold the line? Really? So lets get this straight real quick. The Alliance was faced with almost every important demon that has existed since Warcraft 3. Not only that, you just went on and on about how the Horde were soooo outmatched. Tell me, what do you think those forces that sent the Horde running were doing? Do you think they packed their bags and returned to the Twitsting Nether? No. They started to focus on the Alliance, which is why Genn then suggests to retreat.

To make it simple: If the Horde were sent running by the invasion force, what makes you think the Alliance would've stood any chance against that same force + most of the big bads since Warcraft 3?

You keep claiming that rob should play the scenario to get the full picture, but hey, maybe you should take your own advice.