The Horde's performance at Broken Shore is quite pathetic

[Derah]

I was agreeing with your post until I saw this. You're sounding just as bad as Rob.

How is it sad to retreat when a large portion of your offensive (the Horde) end up retreating? Hold the line? Really? So lets get this straight real quick. The Alliance was faced with almost every important demon that has existed since Warcraft 3. Not only that, you just went on and on about how the Horde were soooo outmatched. Tell me, what do you think those forces that sent the Horde running were doing? Do you think they packed their bags and returned to the Twitsting Nether? No. They started to focus on the Alliance, which is why Genn then suggests to retreat.

To make it simple: If the Horde were sent running by the invasion force, what makes you think the Alliance would've stood any chance against that same force + most of the big bads since Warcraft 3?

You keep claiming that rob should play the scenario to get the full picture, but hey, maybe you should take your own advice.

You sound like a reasonable person, thus my post was not addressed to you.

Unlike greymane, or jaina, or so many alliance players, I am NOT blaming the alliance for what happened. Both sides weren't properly prepared to fight the legion, the horde, the alliance, and the argent crusade had a collective moment of stupidity or maybe just overinflated ego, as they drastically underestimated what they were going up against. And neither side could have predicted the spaceships. Those things are new, first time legion has ever used them, and they were the primary reason for why the offensive failed. There's only so much you can do when you're being bombarded from the sky.

I can understand why the alliance sounded the retreat, the main reason why I pointed out the circumstances of said retreat was as a counterpoint to rob that the horde was "pathetic" for retreating.

I retorted with a "At least we only retreated when we were almost dead. The alliance was still in fighting shape, but when they saw shit going sideways they retreated immediately".

I can understand why they did it, just like most of the in-game alliance (minus Jaina, greymane, rogers, and some players) understands why the horde withdrew. That doesn't mean I don't think its kinda lame that they didn't give it a little more oomph in their effort.

The plan was "horde buys time for the alliance to charge at gul'dan and kill him", the horde held their end of the bargain, we held the tide of demons on that cliff, but the alliance just stood there. They didn't charge in, they waited for gul'dan to summon more demons and just stood there drooling, only killing the demons that came close, with varian delivering cheesy speeches instead of charging in. Sylvanas had to scold varian to shut the fuck up and kill gul'dan already.

Though to be fair to the alliance, this was a doomed enterprise from the beginning. As we saw from the audiobook "The Tomb of Sargeras", Gul'dan opened the portal long before we ever got there. Even if the alliance had managed to kill gul'dan, that portal wasn't magically gonna seal itself up. Gul'dan wasn't summoning that COLOSSAL tidewave of demons on the cliff, those were coming up from the legion itself.

had gul'dan been slain, it would have dealt a big blow to the legion, but wouldn't have halted the invasion, the horde would have been forced to retreat, the demons would have overrun the alliance anyways, and they would have been forced to retreat as well. Its not like killing gul'dan would have magically ended the invasion.

[docterfreeze]

As long as the horde has a weakling as warchief, they will continue to fail in wartime situations. Their best bet now is to follow in vol'jin's footsteps and bend the knee to the alliance while begging for forgiveness.

[Lime]

I can understand why the alliance sounded the retreat, the main reason why I pointed out the circumstances of said retreat was as a counterpoint to rob that the horde was "pathetic" for retreating.

I retorted with a "At least we only retreated when we were almost dead. The alliance was still in fighting shape, but when they saw shit going sideways they retreated immediately".

I can understand why they did it

Ah, well... fair enough. I honestly thought you were doing the same thing Rob was: seeing 1 side of the scenario and jumping to conclusions.

It was an unwinnable fight regardless. The second the Alliance broke through the waves, the Legion showed their hand when they mass summoned the higher ups. Something that we can take away from this is that if Varian pushed harder and faster, the Horde wouldn't have had as many injuries / casualties. Varian would've likely still died, but the Horde would've been in better shape.

Then again, we have no idea how that would've played out. If the Horde leaders weren't injured before the demon lords made their push, it's possible a retreat wouldn't have happened at that point. And in the end, it's the Horde's retreat that forced the Alliance to retreat, which ended up saving lives on both side.

Speculation can be strange.

[Vichan]

You had one job, watch the flank. You failed. End if story.

This "dey sneaked on us" crap is so retarded I am amazed it is a viable excuse. Your idiot leaders could not anticipate this happening and had flank unguarded? Nice nice.

You fought many demons? Well boohoo, your attempt to spin it as if Alliance just waltzed in to Gul'dan with red carpet does not fly, maybe YOU are the one who has to play Alliance scenario to see how it went.

You failed Alliance and Azeroth with your leaders' tactical incompetence.

Feck, you had your frikkin amazing World Shaman crawling there while your warchief got gutted by some rank and file demon. Good performance gaiz.

they didn't get sneaked, they were there the whole time pouring through portals, thrall got bombarded by the spaceships so yeah, i imagine even he would be on the ground, as for vol'jin, he was probably caught off guard seeing the spaceships or everything coming through the portal so yeah......

[Forgottenone]

As long as the horde has a weakling as warchief, they will continue to fail in wartime situations. Their best bet now is to follow in vol'jin's footsteps and bend the knee to the alliance while begging for forgiveness.

That moment when fanboyism takes over and you feel the need to type without thinking about what you are typing

Horde did their job, they held the ridge for as long as possible. As I said before, the current Alliance play mentality seems to be:

"Horde should of kept fighting, lost most if not all their leaders, and died so the Alliance could MAYBE reach Gul'dan or at least retreat with no causalities."

The Hordes best bet is to follow Sylvanas, be ready to fight the Legion and the blinded Alliance (Genn, Jaina, and the rest). It would be nice if the remaining dragonflights banded together to assist in the fight against the Legion, they may not have their aspect powers but they are still very powerful and strong enough to cause damage and slow the Legions advance.

[Gaidax]

Probably because Gul'dan didn't summon a gigangic Fel Reaver to attack their ships...

Well yes, Gul'dan knows what the real threat is, that's certainly not the Horde... so he sent some rank and file Legion trash to clear the Horde, as they are just too weak and would probably Lok'tar or Run, which happened to be the case, while saving real power against the alliance - Demon Lords and that frikkin' Fel Reaver MkII.

But don't worry guys, "Warchief" Windrunner will certainly make "Horde" regain honor, I bet it will have something to do with poison, dirty tactics and immoral crap... maybe they will nuke Goldshire this time (and this can't come too soon!).

[Degenerator]

So two things I took from the scenarios:

1. Played the scenario from both factions and thought they were both brilliantly done. If you haven't played both I STRONGLY recommend it, this way you get the full feels for what is happening. Both sides got it tight and had to make big decisions, Sylvanas had to retreat to preserve the Horde per Voljins request, and Varian sacrificing himself to ensure his remaining forces got away safely. Much respect to both factions for their actions.....they both fought bravely, but as pointed out, had NO chance of victory.

2. The truly sad thing I got from this was that Varian died thinking Sylvanas had betrayed him, and she hadn't....you can almost feel the sadness in her in the scene just after Guldan kills Varian in the Horde cinematic.....gave me chills.

[Deleted]

But they didn't actually fought them.
Don't claim you were in a fight with them when they were AFK'ing 200 yards away while some lesser demons kicked your ass.

well we dont see the ships firing at horde in the cinema dont moan about spaceships nuking you if there afking in a distance

[Heladys]

So much salt from the horde here. You're only legitimizing JustRob's efforts to rile you up.

[Jewsco]

So much salt from the horde here. You're only legitimizing JustRob's efforts to rile you up.

I know overall they don't get it was set up this was by blizz to tell thier story. All this is about is poking some fun at the horde

[Deleted]

But they didn't actually fought them.
Don't claim you were in a fight with them when they were AFK'ing 200 yards away while some lesser demons kicked your ass.

Have a look at the alliance cinematic again , u can clearly see Jaraxxus and some other big demons there.

- - - Updated - - -

So two things I took from the scenarios:

1. Played the scenario from both factions and thought they were both brilliantly done. If you haven't played both I STRONGLY recommend it, this way you get the full feels for what is happening. Both sides got it tight and had to make big decisions, Sylvanas had to retreat to preserve the Horde per Voljins request, and Varian sacrificing himself to ensure his remaining forces got away safely. Much respect to both factions for their actions.....they both fought bravely, but as pointed out, had NO chance of victory.

2. The truly sad thing I got from this was that Varian died thinking Sylvanas had betrayed him, and she hadn't....you can almost feel the sadness in her in the scene just after Guldan kills Varian in the Horde cinematic.....gave me chills.

Sylvanas didn't care Varian died , why would she? Genn tho cries out when Varian dies.

[Sigxy]

I do think both sides did pretty good, at least the best they could.

However, due to Blizzard not having much of logical, common sense, there were 2 things that really ruined the aftermath which lead to the 'misunderstanding' that could've been so easily avoided.

1: Sylvanas and Vairan sure did talk a lot during the event over great distances. Why couldn't Sylvanas - or ANYONE - inform the Alliance that they are being overrun and have to leave?
2: When the Alliance set off to the air on the ship, did NO ONE notice the mass piles of bodies on the horde's side and then see just how overrun it was by the demons?

Urgh.

[Mormolyce]

It's the Legion, it's literally an unwinnable scenario.

[Rafoel]

The one thing I didn't at all understand was...

we are like... 80 people + leaders of both the horde and the alliance, and we are just watching Tirion die while eating popcorn. Why didn't Jaina for instance just cast a spell on Gul'dan to release Tirion? The scenario was so bad overall, that my eyes bled out.

Meanwhile, I still don't understand what that retard was doing there, alone, away from the entire army of both Horde and Alliance, and with completely no support.

[Troggdor]

Yep. As it turns out loading up the boat and charging straight to the burning legion was not a great choice of tactics.

People looked at me weird at work when I lol'd at this

[Deleted]

Meanwhile, I still don't understand what that retard was doing there, alone, away from the entire army of both Horde and Alliance, and with completely no support.

He thought he could solo the legion in his lvl 80 gear.

[luccadeo]

So I've played through it on 6 of my horde toons aND 5 of my alliance ones and I realized last night that Gelbin was more of a bad ass than the entire horde army.

[JustRob]

I really like what they did with Gelbin, I feel like all this time they had trouble putting him in serious scenes, because let's be honest a little guy like that fighting big monsters is just stupid. But him using a mech is a perfect solution, and so fitting since he and his race are technical geniuses.

I hope we see more of him in this expansion and future ones.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one that wants to see Gul'dan dead? The Horde and Alliance did their best in the Broken Shore, however, I'm pretty pissed about Jaina not being in the cinematics and where the hell was the other alliance leaders? (Falstad, Moira & Muradin, Tyrande, Malfurion and Prophet Velen). All the horde leaders were there.

[kary]

Am I the only one that wants to see Gul'dan dead? The Horde and Alliance did their best in the Broken Shore, however, I'm pretty pissed about Jaina not being in the cinematics and where the hell was the other alliance leaders? (Falstad, Moira & Muradin, Tyrande, Malfurion and Prophet Velen). All the horde leaders were there.

There are a lot of politicians/monarchs in the alliance. All the horde faction leaders save the goblin prince are warriors.

Oh and right now I think Mal and Tyrande are playing house in Val'sharah.