I hate when Blizzard pushes UH over Frost intentionally

[Mercane]

Hasn't Frost been the best DPS spec for far longer than Unholy has? Last time I remember Unholy being big was when Festerblight was a thing in ToT.

Unholy is the more interesting spec to me personally, and I'm happy that it's the best right now.

They've both had their strengths and weaknesses in each raid, it's pretty boss by boss so it's hard to say it's just a spec thing.

If you're not a mythic raider, your choice of Frost or Unholy is really down to whatever is more fun to play. At the end of the day, you can take a small amount of comfort knowing that no matter how bad you think Frost is, it will still outperform a Ret Paladin.

couldn't have said it better.

Also, yes Unholy is more complicated than Frost by miles. That's why I detest the spec apart from its themes. I don't necessarily want precision and dexterity on an undead warrior for success I want to brutally hack people to pieces with little thinking and raw strength.

They both have 4 buttons and prioritize RP dumping during burst; difficulty wise- they're pretty equal. 7.0 Unholy is far, far more forgiving than BoS 6.2 Unholy was.

[NutellaFluff]

frost dk= noob spec, since 2008. if u play frost dk, that means that u are a stupid person, who is not able to understand the runesystem and proably is somehow disabled, in a mental and a bodily way. Yes that is the typical reaction if u ask older players about frost dk.

But in exchange for the loss of respect from the playerbase by rolling frost, u can do ranged melee attacks all the time. Congratz, mr. typical mouthbreather frost dk.

Loving the most stupid and boring spec in the game shows deep into OPs Personality.

One small hint for our op frost dk: pillars of frost allow you to move your dk, this was changed in 2009. U can press another button than howling blast, and perhaps thats why obliterate is a spell that is considered bying used by your personal theorycrafting guru?

You must be fun and popular at parties.

[Deleted]

Frost is easier. That's undeniable. Maybe this is the reason why they wish for UH to be somewhat above frost in terms of dps.

[Fenrkyr]

This is the only class on this forum where proponents of one spec continually belittle and make fun of proponents of the other.

[Dracovian]

Ease of play is not a good arguement for less dps i.e. Hunters, Mages and now DH.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I don't see how DK's are thematically frost.. ever since WC2 they have been mainly about undeath/unholy.

[RuneDK]

Hasn't Frost been the best DPS spec for far longer than Unholy has? Last time I remember Unholy being big was when Festerblight was a thing in ToT.

Unholy is the more interesting spec to me personally, and I'm happy that it's the best right now.

The last time Frost was as far ahead of unholy, as unholy was in HFC was maybe the beginning of Firelands. However, Since cataclysms launch Unholy has been the better spec for most of the last six years. It started T11 as the top due to an unintended playstyle that got nerfed in 4.1...then frost was better for the rest of T11 and the beginning of T12, once you had gear unholy was equal to it in T12, then unholy was much better than frost in T13 once you got Gurth'alak. All that was Cataclysm. Now onto MoP, Frost was better for MSV and T14(but the gap was never as big as it was in T18). Unholy has since then been the best DK spec for pve. So Frost got maybe two years at most as the better spec, but it's closer to a year and a half.

TLDR, no frost hasn't been the best dps spec for far longer than unholy.

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I don't see how DK's are thematically frost.. ever since WC2 they have been mainly about undeath/unholy.

The most popular death knight ever was a Frost DK.

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Frost is easier. That's undeniable. Maybe this is the reason why they wish for UH to be somewhat above frost in terms of dps.

I find current unholy much easier than frost tbh...

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This is the only class on this forum where proponents of one spec continually belittle and make fun of proponents of the other.

Yea, that's why I don't feel bad when unholy gets nerfed instead of frost getting buffed. MOST players here are loyal to one spec or the other and not the class. I hate seeing the class nerfed, but whatever at this stage. I enjoy unholy, I just don't love it. I loved festerblight and even playing UH with Gurth'alak at the end of Cataclysm....However unholy hasn't been that fun to me since dot snap-shotting went away.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Ease of play is not a good arguement for less dps i.e. Hunters, Mages and now DH.

Yes, yes it is.

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The most popular death knight ever was a Frost DK.

That doesn't mean shit.

[RuneDK]

Yes, yes it is.

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That doesn't mean shit.

Not only is he the most popular, but the most powerful...He has necromancy in his arsenal too. However, It absolutely means something when the strongest DK to ever live is frost...but you'll probably still say it doesn't mean much...when it really does....however that's why we have frost AND unholy...

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Nope, there is always a spec that is better than the rest. Its like this for class in the game.
Do you think they were "pushing" Arcane over frost and fire last expansion?

Its just how it works out. It MIGHT be intentional, but it doesn't matter. You will NEVER have them both be perfectly equal.

[RuneDK]

Nope, there is always a spec that is better than the rest. Its like this for class in the game.
Do you think they were "pushing" Arcane over frost and fire last expansion?

Its just how it works out. It MIGHT be intentional, but it doesn't matter. You will NEVER have them both be perfectly equal.

Considering there is more of an investment of your time....they need to balance them. One should be better yes...but not how much better unholy has been the entire expansion(aside from a couple days of 6.2). And most of the time since Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

The last time Frost was as far ahead of unholy, as unholy was in HFC was maybe the beginning of Firelands. However, Since cataclysms launch Unholy has been the better spec for most of the last six years. It started T11 as the top due to an unintended playstyle that got nerfed in 4.1...then frost was better for the rest of T11 and the beginning of T12, once you had gear unholy was equal to it in T12, then unholy was much better than frost in T13 once you got Gurth'alak. All that was Cataclysm. Now onto MoP, Frost was better for MSV and T14(but the gap was never as big as it was in T18). Unholy has since then been the best DK spec for pve. So Frost got maybe two years at most as the better spec, but it's closer to a year and a half.

TLDR, no frost hasn't been the best dps spec for far longer than unholy.

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The most popular death knight ever was a Frost DK.

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I find current unholy much easier than frost tbh...

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Yea, that's why I don't feel bad when unholy gets nerfed instead of frost getting buffed. MOST players here are loyal to one spec or the other and not the class. I hate seeing the class nerfed, but whatever at this stage. I enjoy unholy, I just don't love it. I loved festerblight and even playing UH with Gurth'alak at the end of Cataclysm....However unholy hasn't been that fun to me since dot snap-shotting went away.

The most popular death knight ever was a Frost DK. arthas was way way more unholy then frost, raise dead, unholy aura,deathpact, raising sindrgosa, deathcoil, only frost ability he had was in in his encounter and that was remorsless winter, cause his sword has frost is the name doesnt mean he was a frost dk.

[Dracovian]

Yes, yes it is.

Do you even read? MM Hunter is a top 5 dps spec atm in the Legion beta and it is one of the simplest rotations/priority lists ever in recent WoW history. By your logic Hunters should be bottom 5. Mages and Demon Hunters don't take much thought either. None of them is much more difficult than Frost and I would argue Frost can take more thought depending on the talents taken.

tl;dr: You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Fenrkyr]

Nope, there is always a spec that is better than the rest. Its like this for class in the game.
Do you think they were "pushing" Arcane over frost and fire last expansion?

Its just how it works out. It MIGHT be intentional, but it doesn't matter. You will NEVER have them both be perfectly equal.

True, but other than frost mages vs arcane/fire, I can't think of any other class where one spec is consistently weaker than the others. Hunters, rogues and warlocks always have one spec significantly stronger than the others, but they rotate pretty much every tier. Druids and shaman are a little different because there is it melee vs ranged and ranged is always going to be preferred. Up until WoD I would say warriors were in a similiar situation as DKs with fury nearly always being superior for PVE, but arms finally pulled out of that PVP-only designation in WoD. Frost however, has nearly always been outclassed by unholy, and it seems to be intentional.

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Do you even read? MM Hunter is a top 5 dps spec atm in the Legion beta and it is one of the simplest rotations/priority lists ever in recent WoW history. By your logic Hunters should be bottom 5. Mages and Demon Hunters don't take much thought either. None of them is much more difficult than Frost and I would argue Frost can take more thought depending on the talents taken.

tl;dr: You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only indication that difficulty has ever been related to damage output was a comment made by Ghostcrawler about 5 years ago regarding feral druids. But like you said, Mage dominance pretty much extinguishes this theory.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Not only is he the most popular, but the most powerful...He has necromancy in his arsenal too. However, It absolutely means something when the strongest DK to ever live is frost...but you'll probably still say it doesn't mean much...when it really does....however that's why we have frost AND unholy...

Nope. Doesn't matter. Dks were around before Arthas, and so was the Lich King.

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Do you even read? MM Hunter is a top 5 dps spec atm in the Legion beta and it is one of the simplest rotations/priority lists ever in recent WoW history. By your logic Hunters should be bottom 5. Mages and Demon Hunters don't take much thought either. None of them is much more difficult than Frost and I would argue Frost can take more thought depending on the talents taken.

tl;dr: You have no idea what you are talking about.

Ease of play IS a good argument for lower DPS.

[BicycleMafioso]

Hm. That's strange. I've always thought that Frost DK was the ugly child.
They go against everything that Death Knights were lore-wise up to the release of the DK. I still refuse to accept any DK who are dual wielding as a DK. Or a DK with a mace of any kind.
Whereas Unholy is the perfect picture of a Death Knight thematically, using decay and death to sow anxiety and fear, and wear their foes down with corpse magic.
Game play wise, I always preferred Blood DPS. And Blood tanking. And Blood PVP. Stack that armor penetration, baby!
But unholy was a close second. Now that unholy is the only option, that's how things are. Nothing to do about that.
I feel nothing but contempt for the play style of Frost. Both when I try it and when someone is using it against me. It's a strange perfect overlap where I dislike the flavour and the game play, shared only with Outlaw Rogue.
I get an instant and irrational feeling of dislike and resentment when I encounter either one. I don't know why. They are also the far and beyond most popular speccs of their classes, so when I enjoy something that isn't that, this seems to be a natural reaction.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I always wonder what's wrong with people like this and where they're getting their nonsense from.

They're getting it from Blizzard. That demonology interview where they explained why it had been nerfed into the ground, they said something to the effect of "It's been the best for the last tier, so it's Demo's turn to be the worst spec for a while."

OT: The reason everything is centered around Oblit is that it's the hard hitting ability. Frost, though boring, does function, and has for the past few xpacs. I do agree though that it's a shame that they can't make it a bit more interesting. I specced into it for the first time the other day, and was amazed at how few buttons the spec has.

[Hotto Pantsu]

Agreed, bad form on my part, just so sick of the whole if you don't play this spec you suck debate, but should not have responded in that manner.

He does have a point though. Most popular classes have a spec that retards usually pick (and I don't mean every player of the said spec is a retard). For DK's it's frost, for hunters it's BM, for warriors it's fury and so on. It's just the reputation coming with some specs due the player base.

[Rixarius]

Frost has had it's time on the top. It's hard to balance them equally, but I'm sure that if Frost is terrible it will be buffed or if UH is completely OP then it will be nerfed. Unholy is completely different now, so I don't see why people would say that it's so much more complex than Frost. In reality, it's not. I play UH so I should know. The spec is arguably the most simple it's ever been, and both specs are very easy to pick up and play.

That being said, Legion isn't here yet so it's impossible to say which spec will be best, regardless of what the sims say on Beta right now. Tuning is still sure to happen, and once the game goes live there will still be tuning done before Mythic raids are available. So play what you want.

[Deleted]

Frost has had it's time on the top. It's hard to balance them equally, but I'm sure that if Frost is terrible it will be buffed or if UH is completely OP then it will be nerfed. Unholy is completely different now, so I don't see why people would say that it's so much more complex than Frost. In reality, it's not. I play UH so I should know. The spec is arguably the most simple it's ever been, and both specs are very easy to pick up and play.

That being said, Legion isn't here yet so it's impossible to say which spec will be best, regardless of what the sims say on Beta right now. Tuning is still sure to happen, and once the game goes live there will still be tuning done before Mythic raids are available. So play what you want.

unholy still is quite abit harder then frost to due well with. unholy has pet to mangeage,dot(with ebonfever you need to pay lot more attion to it) festering wounds stacks, runicpower and runes, dnd/defile placement. dark transformation soulreaper.
while frost has rime/km proc runes, rp and thats it.