Illidan in Legion looks like a fanfiction character

[Cheze]

illidan looks the same as he looked in TBC

he only looks like a fanfiction character now because nerds have spent the intervening ten years writing fanfic about him

[Rideanovan]

I'm not saying that canon and fanfiction are opposite words, but he is not the same character. It's that simple. Compare his dialogues from War 3 to the ones in Legion. You'll see the difference. His character changed over time, sure, but some core character values don't change. They changed those core character values. He was a guy who would sacrifice himself to save the world, now he's a guy who would sacrifice the world itself to save it. That is not being consistent. Malfurion would sacrifice the world, not Illidan.

Sounds to me like you're conveniently glossing over that time when Illidan tried to use the Eye of Sargeras to destroy the Lich King and his Frozen Throne, which was dealing serious damage to the world as a side effect. Malfurion, being the hippy tree hugger that he is, stopped Illidan, thereby eventually allowing Arthas to merge with the Lich King. I wonder if Arthas's soul might have been saved, had Malfurion not intervened. The point is, Malfurion will stop at nothing to save "the world", while Illidan would be willing to sacrifice the world itself if it meant saving his people (a goal that now extends to more than just Night Elves, aka character development).

[Felpacino]

http://imgur.com/fsKuNbS

Yes, Illidan is Chaotic Good, but to me, Malfurion is either Chaotic Neutral or Lawful Neutral. He's not good and he sacrificed the World Tree to save the world. Illidan sacrificed himself to save a fucking forest.

[Wildmoon]

i own WC3, and have played it tons of times. As well as read WOTA.

he was never a bad guy. everything he did was to protect azeroth, it was the night elves who saw him as a bad guy because he was using the legions power.

Then you have a problem with basic reading if you believe that. I don't think I have to list all of Illidan's past crimes in many versions of WotA anymore. I have done it too many times in this forum.

[Zeek Daniels]

Blizzard wanted to give Illidan a redemption, here we go, now he's the good guy.

Correction. Illidan has always been a good guy. Just misunderstood by his peers. This isnt a redemption unless you mean hes redeeming himself for failing to kill the legion prior to this point.

[Wildmoon]

Yes, Illidan is Chaotic Good, but to me, Malfurion is either Chaotic Neutral or Lawful Neutral. He's not good and he sacrificed the World Tree to save the world. Illidan sacrificed himself to save a fucking forest.

Illidan did not "sacrifice" himself. He craved the power.

[Deleted]

Did someone already ship Illidan with Malfurion? =)

[Felpacino]

Illidan did not "sacrifice" himself. He craved the power.

Before he took the Skull of Gul'dan, he said, "Now at least the demons will no longer corrupt the forests. But, if I destroy the skull and claim it's powers as my own, I will become stronger than any of Archimonde's lieutenants."
He "did" sacrifice himself, but he took the power along the way. He wanted to end the corruption and wanted to have the power too. He said this afterwards: "Yes... the power should be mine!"

He was hunger for power, but he wasn't selfish. Just like how Kael'thas was in Warcraft 3 or Arthas, before he has lost his soul. Come to think of it, those 3 characters have too much in common.

[Nexsa]

In the demon hunter cinematic Illidan sounds like a gay vampire.

Can you tell me what a gay vampire sounds like? Also, what year it is and why you're using the term gay to describe your dislike for a fictional character?

[FurryRedVixen]

Thats just it, illidan never was the bad guy, you all got suckered into the revenge scheme of Maeiv just like Grom did with Garrosh.

[Deleted]

The new book is obviously canon. There is no need to discuss that. It doesn't mean the character is perfectly consistant.

Old Illidan wasn't a bad guy. But he wasn't that passionate about "saving the world" and "the greater good" either. Not all but a significant part of his actions were only motivated by "looking good before Tyrande" and "saving his own ass".

As a whole, Illidan was a very self-centred character. Again, it doesn't mean that Illidan was a bad guy. He didn't want to destroy Azeroth or anything like that. But he did make mistakes and bad choices, which were nobody to blame but him.

That selfishness of Illidan is very down-toned by the book and Legion. Now we got a naaru telling us that Illidan did nothing wrong, that his destructive choices were forced by necessity, and that he will be the great savior of everything.

Old Illidan was a guy who did wrong things without being evil. That's a bit more interesting than what we usually get from Warcraft - and as I say that, I never really liked Illidan to begin with, I couldn't help but see him as a plot device who happens to be edgy, but I do recognize that he had some qualities as a character.

Now, I don't really see much about New Illidan that makes him different from the countless "I was right all along but you didn't listen to me" characters we find in other stories.

I don't say New Illidan isn't canon. He is. But it's a direction of story and character that I find unfortunate.

[Nevcairiel]

This whole canon vs. non-canon discussion is silly.
Games or movies are practically never written by one single person. You will usually not know which author wrote which particular line. So claiming that only the words of one person is truely canon is just a very limited view of the world.

Anything the original creators publish is canon. This includes further games or officially sanctioned publications, like the novels, unless stated otherwise.

[Not A Cat]

Illidan has always been a tragic hero. Even during WotA, he was a lot like the other elves who craved magic. That on top of raging hard on for Tyrande made it easy for Xavius to corrupt him and get him to turn on Malfurion. He was selfish, he craved power, but to be fair his intent was never the destruction of Azeroth or his people.

Throughout the Nelf campaign in WC3 he tries to prove to Malfurion that he isn't the fel-crazed maniac they think he is. Unfortunately he gave into his lust for power and became the very thing that made Malfurion distrust him in the first place.

He escaped to Outland to flee from the Legion, what I don't understand is why he suddenly became so full of hatred in those few years when he spent 10,000 years rotting away in the Warden's captivity yet still came out wanting to be redeemed. I guess he started losing control of his power and the angry demon side became more prominent? God knows he was sexually frustrated (with his sex chamber and all), that probably had something to do with it.

I don't think he was ever wholly evil. He made some pretty horrible decisions because of his own selfishness and that inevitably made him a slave to his own power.

A lot of the lore of TBC is hard to grasp for me. Like, the dark portal was opened by Kazzak(?) so we went in to stop the demons from coming through. Then I guess we found draenei that were still living there and Vashj was taking the water and Kael'thas was taking their ships and shit. Basically we found out they were all being assholes so we stopped them. Then we stumbled upon Akama who was like, "Illidan's trashing my house" so we fucking killed Illidan who decided not to mention a single thing during our siege about destroying the legion. Because when we were in Outland we were doing the same thing, stopping the legion! I can only imagine his bitterness was all that was keeping him from telling us or something.

If anything OP, he became a fanfiction character in TBC. There was so much edge and angst in that man he set himself back like 10 years.

[Kathranis]

TBC butchered his character and turned him into a generic bad guy.

BC didn't butcher his character; it didn't do anything to -- or with -- his character. He was just there. Kill him, because... reasons.

The new novel, which is excellent by the way, doesn't retcon or change anything. It just provides the characterization that was completely absent from BC. They took advantage of the fact that Illidan had absolutely no development or screen time in that expansion to fill in the blanks and give him an actual character arc and motivations, all the while preserving the fact that his enemies (including the players) never knew what he was doing and thought he was just a crazy person who needed to be put down.


This is all still perfectly in keeping with his past characterization. He's always been a tragic anti-hero who will do anything for the sake of the greater good.

[Deleted]

He is the exact same guy if you use the correct trope for his character, the anti-villain. He is the anti-villain since WC3, he still sacrifices the others in order to empower himself.

[Kathranis]

He escaped to Outland to flee from the Legion, what I don't understand is why he suddenly became so full of hatred in those few years when he spent 10,000 years rotting away in the Warden's captivity yet still came out wanting to be redeemed.

Read the book. It gives really good insight into his mental state throughout everything.

He essentially spent those ten thousand years plotting out how he could fight against the Legion, and after becoming Lord of Outland, that's all he really worked on, or even thought about. It became an all-consuming obsession. Everything was to further the training of the Illidari and make preparations to open the portal to Argus.

The only people he revealed his plans to were the Illidari, so the outside world had no idea what he was up to and thought he had just gone insane and withdrawn into the Black Temple. In the end his single-minded determination to take the battle to Kil'jaeden blinded him to Kael's betrayal and Akama's duplicity, so his empire crumbled around him and he was ultimately killed by well-meaning fools (the players).

[Deleted]

Illidan has always been a tragic hero.

Tragic how? Just because he didn't got the girl?

His birth (and Malfurion's) was a blessing. He was trained by Cenarius, becoming the second night elf getting that honor. He was handpicked by Ravencrest to led the Moon Guard. There was nothing tragic about his early life, he simply didn't like to be "number two".

[Kathranis]

Tragic how? Just because he didn't got the girl?

His birth (and Malfurion's) was a blessing. He was trained by Cenarius, becoming the second night elf getting that honor. He was handpicked by Ravencrest to led the Moon Guard. There was nothing tragic about his early life, he simply didn't like to be "number two".

There was nothing tragic about Hamlet's early life either. What a shoddy argument to make.

Illidan did bad things, but always for the greater good, and he was always misunderstood. They call him the Betrayer. They imprisoned him for 10,000 years. He was (mostly) just trying to help, and that's the thanks he got.

[Deleted]

Illidan did bad things, but always for the greater good, and he was always misunderstood. They call him the Betrayer. They imprisoned him for 10,000 years. He was (mostly) just trying to help, and that's the thanks he got.

Except he never did for "the greater good", he did for power and prestige.

Not even Xe'ra's fangirling visions changed that. He was impatiance for more power, refused to be teached by Malfurion and left. He shown his skills with arcane, Ravencrest picked him and during the invasion of Suramar, he learned that he was still weak. After being kicked from the Moon Guard for killing his fellow soldiers, he went straight to Sargeras for more power and after the WotA, he recreated the Well because of its power.

Illidan is a powerhunger character that got delusional with "the greater good". Sargeras is also doing everything for "the greater good" and yet he is the ultimate evil that we have to stop if we want to live.

He is Warcraft's anti-villain.

[Pandragon]

Then you have a problem with basic reading if you believe that. I don't think I have to list all of Illidan's past crimes in many versions of WotA anymore. I have done it too many times in this forum.

you dont understand what chaotic good is do you? go read on the alignment system, then read WOTA again.