I hate when Blizzard pushes UH over Frost intentionally

[Fenrkyr]

unholy still is quite abit harder then frost to due well with. unholy has pet to mangeage,dot(with ebonfever you need to pay lot more attion to it) festering wounds stacks, runicpower and runes, dnd/defile placement. dark transformation soulreaper.
while frost has rime/km proc runes, rp and thats it.

If you want to play frost in the 50th percentile, sure, thats all there is to it.....

But if unholy is SOOO much more difficult, then you should be parsing in the 95th+ percentile with frost by default right?

- - - Updated - - -

Frost has had it's time on the top.

Not sure I'd classify Mogushan Vaults and the first two days of HFC as relevant "time on the top".

[Khrux]

In fairness the talents can alter the "difficulty" for both specs. Currently the standard talent setup for both dps specs is straight forward but talents change over time and the class can go from mind numbingly simple to having to focus and plan ahead if one of the more "difficult" to use talents gets buffed and becomes optimal.

Unholy Example - Castigator on paper seems very simple, I crit and gain an extra wound or consume an extra wound. Simple right? But it actually changes the way you manage resources and brings in extra micro management of festering vs scourge balancing and plays into how you setup Soul Reaper, another talent that causes you to have to think ahead and setup your resources appropriately. Before this was buffed the clawing shadows talent was the faceroll option, since then it has been asked frequently here how to manage festering wounds with castigator.....

Ultimately as it currently stands, unholy is more about preparation while frost is more reactive. The talents you choose in either spec change up the amount of elements you manage or pay attention to but as it stands the whole class(all 3 specs) is very simple and no spec should be penalised for being "easy" or given benefits for being "hard" as none of the specs stand out in terms of difficulty from the other.

[psyquest]

WTB feature where ignore = threads posted by the ignored don't show up on the front page "New posts" thing.

Man I would love to have all people you put ignore never show up in your front page feed.

[Rixarius]

unholy still is quite abit harder then frost to due well with. unholy has pet to mangeage,dot(with ebonfever you need to pay lot more attion to it) festering wounds stacks, runicpower and runes, dnd/defile placement. dark transformation soulreaper.
while frost has rime/km proc runes, rp and thats it.

I use a simple 4-block TellMeWhen bar to manage all of that. Plague is simple, just requires you press a button every 15 seconds. Pet management is incredibly easy now, since DT is now a cooldown, and while shadow infusion still exists, it doesn't exist in the same form that you had to bank a full bar of RP when your pet was about to transform back to normal. Festering Wound is arguably the easiest part of the spec, since it's just a matter of popping wounds until you're down to 2 stacks, and then reapplying again.

I would argue that UH is easier just because it's a bit more flow-chart and there is less room for failure once you understand the core fundamentals of the spec. It's really hard to mess up playing UH because there is less RNG. Frost on the otherhand, while it may have less buttons and less to manage, is easier to mess up because of the nature of the spec. It's very proc heavy, and it's very easy to be into your rotation and miss and immediate Killing Machine while you're unloading RP or hitting a Rime proc.

[Nemesquish]

It amazes me how people can still think Unholy is more difficult or in-depth than Frost....

rofl

[Rixarius]

If you want to play frost in the 50th percentile, sure, thats all there is to it.....

But if unholy is SOOO much more difficult, then you should be parsing in the 95th+ percentile with frost by default right?

- - - Updated - - -



Not sure I'd classify Mogushan Vaults and the first two days of HFC as relevant "time on the top".

Frost also had a ton of time at the top in Cata, and being super useful because of speccing into Chillblains made it the go to spec for fights that needed slows (Nefarian, Beth'tilac, Madness to name a few.)

[Fenrkyr]

It amazes me how people can still think Unholy is more difficult or in-depth than Frost....

rofl

I don't think they REALLY do, its just a standard tactic used by people who have self-esteem issues. The people saying these things have most likely have never seen an orange parse with either spec, nor ever been above 2k in any bracket.

[Unholyground]

Based on now and what I predict at 110. But really, does it matter? Frost is still just defined by assaulting whatever Obliterate is bound to on your keyboard and anticipating that sweet burst macro key to come up. The rest of the stuff like boring icicles and more (no I'm not fucking kidding) icicles aren't even usable because you need to power up Obliterate.

Frost gets a lot more interesting once your artifact is leveled. I was on beta and I liked it a lot.

[Deleted]

Frost gets a lot more interesting once your artifact is leveled. I was on beta and I liked it a lot.

ive played almost evry single spec in beta and frost was just boring imo.
still frost has less maneagement then unholy.

[Nemesquish]

ive played almost evry single spec in beta and frost was just boring imo.
still frost has less maneagement then unholy.

It really doesn't....And if you even consider what Unholy does "maneagement", Than I feel sorry for you.

[Deleted]

Well from playing beta they both have their own bosses that they're good at so

[Deleted]

It really doesn't....And if you even consider what Unholy does "maneagement", Than I feel sorry for you.

you need to mangeage the wounds , dot your runes and rp. frost aslo has the runes and rp but its bit less then unholy due empower rune weapon you can just blow up while unholy needs to mangeage it through the whole fight.
And what woudl you call maneagement then?

[Nemesquish]

you need to mangeage the wounds , dot your runes and rp. frost aslo has the runes and rp but its bit less then unholy due empower rune weapon you can just blow up while unholy needs to mangeage it through the whole fight.
And what woudl you call maneagement then?

No spec in this game requires management anymore. Every single spec is mind numbingly easy to play.

IF you were every going to make a defense for unholy having to manage anything, It would be a pet, and only on certain fights where said pet can break mechanics with its grip or something similar.

The only thing you listed for Unholy having, that frost doesn't, Is Wounds...And I would argue positioning with Frostscythe and KM is more complicated (Wounds are a joke.)

[Tykus]

frost dk= noob spec, since 2008. if u play frost dk, that means that u are a stupid person, who is not able to understand the runesystem and proably is somehow disabled, in a mental and a bodily way. Yes that is the typical reaction if u ask older players about frost dk.

But in exchange for the loss of respect from the playerbase by rolling frost, u can do ranged melee attacks all the time. Congratz, mr. typical mouthbreather frost dk.

Loving the most stupid and boring spec in the game shows deep into OPs Personality.

One small hint for our op frost dk: pillars of frost allow you to move your dk, this was changed in 2009. U can press another button than howling blast, and perhaps thats why obliterate is a spell that is considered bying used by your personal theorycrafting guru?

INFRACTION

In 2008 it was the tank spec.

[Coldvibes]

Frost still has it's complexities whether or not people choose to believe it:

GA being absolute fuckery to manage anytime there is a z-axis, FSc having a positional requirement, BoS requires much more than just a pulse to hold for 60+ seconds currently, knowing when you won't fuck up your group's DR timers in M+ with Winter is Coming, having to preplan movement more than any spec in the game....

People just want parity between the specs, that's really not that much to ask for, I really feel like Frost would've been in an awesome place when Rime was triggering the way it was before, but with the Ambidexterity fix.

[WoWDontu]

I stopped reading when the op said they based this off live and predictions. You don't have your artifact yet, which means you have 70% less dmg. Classes are not balanced around this prepatch. I Don't understand why people can't get it. I've been playing Legion since Alpha, you will be fine with your most boring spec in the game besides BM.

[BicycleMafioso]

In 2008 it was the tank spec.

Nope. Frost Presence was the tank presence, but all specs were the tank specs.

[RuneDK]

If you want to play frost in the 50th percentile, sure, thats all there is to it.....

But if unholy is SOOO much more difficult, then you should be parsing in the 95th+ percentile with frost by default right?

- - - Updated - - -



Not sure I'd classify Mogushan Vaults and the first two days of HFC as relevant "time on the top".

It was also the beginning of Firelands too. And end of Tier 11. But nonetheless I agree.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope. Frost Presence was the tank presence, but all specs were the tank specs.

It was the tank spec for a while. For icecrown citadel, blood was the way to go for various reasons. Between the ability to get an icy slam threat generation and the self healing blood naturally became the normal choice for tanking. However Blood dps with enough ArP and a smourne did lulz damage.

[Nemesquish]

Nope. Frost Presence was the tank presence, but all specs were the tank specs.

I think he means Frost was the stronger spec in Naxx for tanking, Which I agree..

Unbreakable Armor is probably the strongest ability thats ever been in this game.

Straight up 15% physical damage absord (Absorbed like 1.3k damage from each attack) added 25% Strength, which was insane, And armor capped you for the duration. Believe it was 20 seconds on a 1 min CD....Absolutely insane.

[RuneDK]

No spec in this game requires management anymore. Every single spec is mind numbingly easy to play.

IF you were every going to make a defense for unholy having to manage anything, It would be a pet, and only on certain fights where said pet can break mechanics with its grip or something similar.

The only thing you listed for Unholy having, that frost doesn't, Is Wounds...And I would argue positioning with Frostscythe and KM is more complicated (Wounds are a joke.)

Our on use artifact ability will be more management too in the sense that we have to figure the best time to use it. Unholy essentially plans around using apocolypse on cooldown. So if you're not maxing your wounds before using Apocolypse...you're just a shitty player.