How do you feel about Mages in Mythic+ ?

[Obsession]

boss damage is often less important than trash damage.

Boss damage is still very, very important because each boss can take 2-3+ minutes depending on the boss. If you look at random high M+ dungeon logs you'll see bosses taking anywhere from 30-45% of the overall dungeon time.

[Neoxx]

How can you say Arcane is easy to figure out? I doubt we even know what talents to get. Even if we knew I don't think we have a complete APL script yet.

What I meant was learning to play Arcane mechanically.
But I also think most talents choises are pretty obvious too. Like is there a lot of AoE? Yes of course we talking about mythic dungeons, so I choose Resonance, NT and Orb.

When does range ever matter outside of specific raid mechanics?

It's exactly that point.
- you get hit by melee cleave, silence, stuns, voidzones and other shit
- you have to move more
- you can die alot easier and you need more heal in general
- you get melee debuffs you are not supposed to get
- you bring debuffs in melee range you are not supposed to bring there (melees hate you, trust me)

The point of an range DPS is to cast from range. You can't deny that.

If you get the legendary leggings, forget all that. I wish this was baseline really.

IF, yes. I almost have 9 days playtime @110 on my mage and haven't found a single legendary item. And even if you find a legendary item it's a 1/16 ? chance that it's the arcane leggings. It's pretty fucked up.
And I also wish the effect would be baseline. IMO the mana regen and the high cast time of Arcane Blast are 2 big reasons that make arcane suboptimal atm.

If you drink for two ticks after every pull and use Evocation properly you'll never run out of mana.

Arcane's only glaring flaw is how it is entirely too dependent on Evocation for mana regeneration.

That's the point. Your mythic+10 group won't wait x seconds for you to drink when they want to pull the next boss/trash pack. You get behind if you have to drink and enemies die slower because of that (I'm exaggerating a bit here, but you get the point). Also you don't get out of combat sometimes.


Btw, can I ask for your mythic+ experience on beta? I'm not trying to flame you or anything, I'm just currious if you tested arcane on mythic+ dungeons or if you are just speculating. From my experience it's pretty obvious that fire is way better, so I'm trying to find out if I missed something essential at this point.

Any discussion about actual DPS is irrelevant right now. In fact I think it would be prudent to refrain from spending more than 13 traits worth of Artifact Power on any artifact before tuning is relatively finalized by the time Mythic+ and raids open a few weeks down the line if you're actually serious about min-maxing performance for high tier PvE

Yeah I actually fear the last minute balance patch too. Although I think they really try to avoid that this time, because 95% of the content is already finished for months and they focus really hard on balancing things for weeks now. It's not like this is WoD where they put an unfinished beta build on live servers and said fuck it, eat that shit.
One can dream.

[Deleted]

You can't cc and skip mobs just to get to the end like you would in challenge modes the last 2 expansions. For mythic + you need to kill a certain amount of trash as well as bosses.

That hasn't changed.

[Alvito]

That hasn't changed.

For legion you need to kill or do a certain amount of the dungeon to complete it, almost like an apexis bar.

[Biomega]

The one issue I can see from dragon's breath is the range of it gets larger with your weapon and even bigger with one of the legendary items. At its furthest it has a 45 yard range I think with the legendary. At that point it is almost like a conic starfall.

True, but that's not impossible to control. In fact, it has a very predictable area of effect. If you're on a level where you're doing M+10 or higher, you shouldn't have trouble managing it.

[HTowN]

True, but that's not impossible to control. In fact, it has a very predictable area of effect. If you're on a level where you're doing M+10 or higher, you shouldn't have trouble managing it.

With the artifact trait and the legendary, DB has the almost same range as fireball and pyro. Not that hard to manage.

[Alvito]

True, but that's not impossible to control. In fact, it has a very predictable area of effect. If you're on a level where you're doing M+10 or higher, you shouldn't have trouble managing it.

It will be like barrage and hunters for awhile. Something that should have been easy that people just couldn't manage.

[Deleted]

I know this isn't warlock thread but since we're discussing about the same thing, how viable are locks in higher mythic?

[Deleted]

For legion you need to kill or do a certain amount of the dungeon to complete it, almost like an apexis bar.

That's not what you said at first.

[Biomega]

It will be like barrage and hunters for awhile. Something that should have been easy that people just couldn't manage.

Don't know who you mean by "people", but remember we are not talking about random PUGs here. Those won't be doing M+10 and higher for a while. People who are at a level where they'll do competitive M+ won't just go ninjapull left and right. That wasn't the case for Barrage, and it won't be the case for DB.

[Alvito]

Don't know who you mean by "people", but remember we are not talking about random PUGs here. Those won't be doing M+10 and higher for a while. People who are at a level where they'll do competitive M+ won't just go ninjapull left and right. That wasn't the case for Barrage, and it won't be the case for DB.

Sure they will mythic + is fairly easy for the first few levels. Even if it wasn't if people have keystones they will get in there one way or another.

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That's not what you said at first.

You might want to reread whatever you think I didn't say because it is the same thing that I said.

[Deleted]

You might want to reread whatever you think I didn't say because it is the same thing that I said.

So you still believe Challenge Modes didn't need any number of trash to be killed. You might want to confirm that.

[EliteNightKnight]

A little bit offtopic, is it true that healers have to dps in mythic+ ?

[HTowN]

A little bit offtopic, is it true that healers have to dps in mythic+ ?

Better focus on keeping everyone alive cuz everything hits really hard...

[Ammanas]

TBC and Cataclysm were probably the hardest heroic dungeons.
I actually found these (maybe tbc a bit more) the best element of the game since it uses the most widest range of your arsenal.
They were quite difficult, I remember heroic shatered hall where I sheeped one and Kited one mob away so the rest could take care the uncced mobs. This was also where frost could shine thanks to its cc and it's reliance on frozen roots.

The main dificulty difference between these heroics and the current challenge mode is; one is about playing well having the skill to use your full arsenal and react well preparing each fight.
The other is about optimising a smaller arsenal really well with a bit higher repitition, you prepare before you begin the dungeon.

I dislike the second one more, part of the rush and the overfocus on optimizing the same arsenal, it's less natural and more studying.

Maybe the preference is about what type of player you are. I noticed in raiding, especially in the first 3 expansions, that you have those who are good at preparing and optimising well for a raid boss and that's how their really strong. But as soon as you have a more random less prepareable encounter or with more pvp like element you see them strugling with learning that fight. The other type who might also enjoy pvp are better at reacting in such encounters. I was always the latter and tended to get the special jobs. I was also interrested in optimising (less about preparing pots :P), but after wrath this optimising for each bossfight has been reduced. I think we also spend less time per raid boss now a days.

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I guess you take kindling as talent than?
With the way your describe it , the mobs don't die fast, because I assume fire isn't great in Aoe/cleave the the trashmobs die fairly fast in normal for example.

Yes Kindling 100%. Trash packs are harder than most bosses, especially at M10+ (the bolstering/fortify buffs don't affect bosses). You can combust every 2-3 trash pulls and will get 2 uses on bosses assuming you don't overgear the run. Only real weakness is we don't have an AoE stun or a low CD interrupt. Thankfully most of the other strong classes are melee and bring those things.

The DB legendary is super good for M+, def the best legendary. It can be annoying but with proper positioning you can use it on CD without pulling extra stuff in 95% of situations.

[Zardam]

Im a proud fire mage in mythic+. Every other pull our dps is godlike, and if you know when to use/save cds while pulling trash our single target on bosses is pretty good too.

[Deleted]

A little bit offtopic, is it true that healers have to dps in mythic+ ?

Main healer here - and yes.
At aroud 12+ you won´t do much but every bit counts

[Sylvaeres]

Lack of CC? Did all of you forget polymorph? It's usable in almost every mythic +. As far as damage, anything under a 10 is a cakewalk as mage. And at higher than 10, you have an AOE interrupt (Dragons Breath), you have living bomb, you have combustion, you have high ignites, and you have a ton ofor survivability with iceblock, frost nova, and double blink + blink hot. You have spellsteal, you have invis for death runs. And if you're lucky enough to have proper gear, you have flame wreath from Ruby and you have the Bough dot that spreads decently. I'm probably forgetting something here.

[Deleted]

Don't know who you mean by "people", but remember we are not talking about random PUGs here. Those won't be doing M+10 and higher for a while. People who are at a level where they'll do competitive M+ won't just go ninjapull left and right. That wasn't the case for Barrage, and it won't be the case for DB.

I've been pugging for m+12 for 4 weeks now cleared it every time :P. Even cleared CoS+12 on time and i got legendary dragon's breath.

But I also have +891 max ilvl (883 equiped now...oh even 886 if it wasnt for my pure crit belt at 885 is slightly better than my 880 50% critrating belt.
Though admittingly I havn't really tried +9 to get +3 upgrade to key.

[Torian kel]

I've been pugging for m+12 for 4 weeks now cleared it every time :P. Even cleared CoS+12 on time and i got legendary dragon's breath.

But I also have +891 max ilvl (883 equiped now...oh even 886 if it wasnt for my pure crit belt at 885 is slightly better than my 880 50% critrating belt.
Though admittingly I havn't really tried +9 to get +3 upgrade to key.

Does nobody look at dates? for some reason this thread was necro from nearly three months ago, of course now you can pug 12, feat you couldn't do three months ago.