The Assassination spec doesn't even make sense anymore

[omeomorfismo]

Hey !
Since I've started a rogue back in Wotlk, I've always mained the Assassination spec, even in WoD. It was my go to spec, I really loved it in every way.

Now, it doesnt make sense.
The Assassination spec has always been about dealing damage with POISONS, to this day our mastery is still Mastery: Potent Poisons !!

Yet, our new kit : Hemorrhage, Garrote deal BLEED damage, okay we had Rupture and still have it but it made sense because it's main purpose was to generate energy.

Before, it was about was all about keeping the Envenom buff up to make more damage with Mutilate but now, I's all about re-applying your bleed dots than using Mutilate of Envenom.

With 30-35% crit before the patch, I was able to spam more those two last spells, now I feel like the gameplay has slowed down it's really less fun.

What I mean is bleeds have taken over poison damage. But we still have poison passive spells (our mastery and the envenom buff), so I don't understand the spec design here.

What do you guys thinks about it?

sorry but there is nothing that imply rotation, only damage...

so, if you dont like passives, clearly a poison spec isnt for you, because poison imply passiveness

[Flurryfang]

agonizing,deadly,wound,leech,crippling,envenom,poisoned knife,kingsbane & bag of tricks.. yeah no poisons at all kek..

but i admit they are pretty boring they could probably do something more interesting with the poisons.

Ohh Assa have poisons, but they just don't really do anything: Around 10-15% of dmg. And that is pretty much the problem. The focus is on bleeds, while it should be on poisons... because of the class fantasy and the mastery.

It would be like if the affliction mastery was focused around your drain life and pet dmg.

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sorry but there is nothing that imply rotation, only damage...

so, if you dont like passives, clearly a poison spec isnt for you, because poison imply passiveness

Yes, poisons imply passiveness, but if you want to have a poison spec, then you have to have some kind of interaction with those poisons. As of now, there is no interaction with poisons really, other then increase application with 30% and that is a very minor dmg increase.

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I don't mind mixing in bleeds in the spec identity, tho I agree poisons should be a bit more on par when it comes to main sources of damage.
Venomous wounds is a great example of how bleeds/poisons can interact. We just need more of that.

I also really like the idea behind our last PvP talent, System Shock, I hope we get something similar to it for pve.

It would be great, if PVE could get some form of System Shock to reward skillful play. Some newbie assa rogues in my alt guild is very slow with the garrote application, so if the spec would reward you for having all your debuffs up, then it would proberly make for a more healthy spec.

Just like when affliction warlocks has the spell, which did increased dmg based upon number of harmful dots.

[ymirsson]

This whole discussion is toxic.

[omeomorfismo]

Yes, poisons imply passiveness, but if you want to have a poison spec, then you have to have some kind of interaction with those poisons. As of now, there is no interaction with poisons really, other then increase application with 30% and that is a very minor dmg increase.

there are kingsbane and sourge of toxins (a mini hemorrage basically), urge to kill helps in the energy pooling that means more dp proc from mutilate and uptime of envenom's debuff, even exanguinate helps to cast more mutilate, so more poison damage.

however the 30% more procs is like 3/5 more instant deadly poison damage

[MasterNewbie]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/19955666

This is the direction they are taking the Assassination fantasy. They are bled dry because your poisons won't let them stop bleeding, that seems to be the new fantasy.

[Deleted]

This whole discussion is toxic.

Certainly much more toxic than our poisons!

[Broskee]

Ehm the problem was we where talking abilities. We where talking about a rotation, and passives are not part of the rotation as they happen passively. What you cant see happening doesnt really matter to you. There could be 5000000000 poison passives but if the button you are pressing applies a bleed, its a bleed spec

There are several active poison abilities in Assassination. But atm it feels more like a bleed spec because the hemo/exanguinate spec is the best and you apply 1 poison to the target but 3 bleeds

Remember when combat's main damage was auto attacks but we pressed sinister strike the most so it was a sinister strike spec? Or when fury did most of its damage from white damage but you pressed bloodthirst so it was a healing spec?

I think you guys are too obsessed with the idea of having poison damage be the highest. I mean, there are snake venoms that target blood. You guys are ridiculous lol

[Deleted]

Remember when combat's main damage was auto attacks but we pressed sinister strike the most so it was a sinister strike spec? Or when fury did most of its damage from white damage but you pressed bloodthirst so it was a healing spec?

I think you guys are too obsessed with the idea of having poison damage be the highest. I mean, there are snake venoms that target blood. You guys are ridiculous lol

Eh. Remember how bleeds do over 50% of assassinations damage?

The only one being ridiculus here is you joining the discussion without presenting a single argument of worth to be fair.

Next time try coming on a bit less douchy and i'l take your seriously

[ZazuuPriest]

your first artifact talent is a 300%+300 Nature damage lethal poison cry more

[Veyne]

Poisons thematically make sense for an Assassin. They are going to die late, after the assassin has already left and it's likely the most sneaky way of killing someone without getting caught.

Bleeds, however, make absolutely no sense. They make a total mess, are impossible to miss, and causing a heavily bleeding wound likely requires the assassin to get in their face. Assassins are about silent, instant deaths, not a massive bleedfest that alerts everyone of their knowledge. Bleeds fit someone like Feral much better who is more of a beast of nature than a meticulously planning assassin.


In short, the current iteration of Assassination rogue should get a name change.

The word "Assassination" does not automatically imply subtlety by the person comitting the assassination.

All in all, I think the combination of Bleeds and Poisons is fantastic for Assassination, but I do think their poison damage does need to be buffed a little. Especially the DoT portion of Deadly Poison.

[Deleted]

your first artifact talent is a 300%+300 Nature damage lethal poison cry more

No its not?

And nice entrance

[Broskee]

Eh. Remember how bleeds do over 50% of assassinations damage?

The only one being ridiculus here is you joining the discussion without presenting a single argument of worth to be fair.

Next time try coming on a bit less douchy and i'l take your seriously

Well, your argument is that even though I have all these poison passives but all I press is rupture, it's a bleed only spec. So, I compared it to other specs whose damage used to come from auto-attacks primarily but pressed something else. I.e fury warriors pressing bloodthirst so they're healers. Nowhere do I think I came off as douchey, but tried to show what you were saying in another light. The idea of having a talent spec named 'Assassination' does not mean poisons NEED to be their highest damage.

[Deleted]

Well, your argument is that even though I have all these poison passives but all I press is rupture, it's a bleed only spec. So, I compared it to other specs whose damage used to come from auto-attacks primarily but pressed something else. I.e fury warriors pressing bloodthirst so they're healers. Nowhere do I think I came off as douchey, but tried to show what you were saying in another light. The idea of having a talent spec named 'Assassination' does not mean poisons NEED to be their highest damage.

You guys are ridiculous lol

Aha....

The thing with assassination right now is that you apply bleeds AND they do most of your damage. Everything that has to do with poisons happen passively and do minute amount of your damage.

I'm not saying poisons needs to do the highest damage. But our mastery improves poison damage and is basicly useless right now, and blizzard themselves say the spec is focused aroudn poison damage.

[ZazuuPriest]

No its not?

And nice entrance

Kingsbane
Releases lethal poison within The Kingslayers and injects it into your target, dealing (300% + 300%) Nature damage instantly and an additional (315% of Attack power) Nature damage over 14 sec.

Each time you apply a Lethal Poison to a target affected by Kingsbane, Kingsbane damage increases by 15%.

Not to mention
Toxic Blades (3/3) = more envenom damage
Bag of Tricks (1/1) = Smash a vial of poison on a bro
Master Alchemist (3/3) = Increased poison damage
Poison Blades (3/3) = increased AE poison damage
Surge of Toxins (1/1) = increased poison damage
From the Shadows (1/1) = poison damage

Odd... as if what i said was absolutely correct. Cry more rogues.

[Deleted]

Kingsbane
Releases lethal poison within The Kingslayers and injects it into your target, dealing (300% + 300%) Nature damage instantly and an additional (315% of Attack power) Nature damage over 14 sec.

Each time you apply a Lethal Poison to a target affected by Kingsbane, Kingsbane damage increases by 15%.

Not to mention
Toxic Blades (3/3) = more envenom damage
Bag of Tricks (1/1) = Smash a vial of poison on a bro
Master Alchemist (3/3) = Increased poison damage
Poison Blades (3/3) = increased AE poison damage
Surge of Toxins (1/1) = increased poison damage
From the Shadows (1/1) = poison damage

Odd... as if what i said was absolutely correct. Cry more rogues.

Its a cd and it has minimal impact on your rotation.

I wrote you a pm explaining why rogues are confused about the assassination spec atm, as you dont seem to want to read the other posts in the thread.

[Deleted]

Ever since they released the pre-patch and I got used to the Hemo / Exsanguinate thing, I feel MUCH more like an assassin.

You come up to a target, you put all your bleeds up, exsanguinate and let than one die out while handling the other guy. ( until you need to reapply bleeds if target A didn't die )

My job as an Assassin is to kill a target, and to kill a target rather quickly. And I feel like that has been more or less improved with the pre-patch change of style towards the spec.

[shaunika123]

you do know that you have to cut people to poison them, which will cause them to bleed
some poisons even make them bleed even more

so the two fit together.

[Deleted]

you do know that you have to cut people to poison them, which will cause them to bleed
some poisons even make them bleed even more

so the two fit together.

No you dont? Most poisons are eaten or drunk.

Also most of our weapon attacks seemingly dont cause people to bleed, so i think we can rule out the whole logic theory

[shaunika123]

No you dont? Most poisons are eaten or drunk.

Also most of our weapon attacks seemingly dont cause people to bleed, so i think we can rule out the whole logic theory

not the ones assasination rogues use

they dont make you lick their daggers, they stab you with it

soooo

and with t19 mutilate will make people bleed, so there

[Deleted]

not the ones assasination rogues use

they dont make you lick their daggers, they stab you with it

soooo

and with t19 mutilate will make people bleed, so there

Most of our weapon attacks are autoattacks. Mutilate per default does not make them bleed, thats an added passive of the weapons.

Logic still does not apply in this situation