Prepared vs Demon Blades

[Schizoide]

There's plenty of Globals to fill the gaps that appear when using Demon Blades, but i won't explain it further to someone who clearly can't be bothered to find out themselves.

There aren't, though. Even at 110 you're looking at 32% wait time. If you enjoy that, more power to you. But don't say you won't have tons of gaps with Demon Blades-- you will.

[Varlak]

Personaly I'm still debating if I'm going to play a DH or stay on my DK. I really fear that momentum end up beeing the playstyle for maximum DPS and to mee its just feel boring. Playing the suposed most mobile clas out there but having to waste that mobility into my damage dealing rotation feel weird. WW monk and warrior don't have to waste their mobility in their rotation.

Also some prepared lover exagerate how simplier deamon blade is. Its generate so much fury that you don,t find yourself staring at your screen like you where playing a BM hunter.

deamon blade is less predictable then prepared, its rotation is less static.

I guess that I just wish blizzard would come with a more interesting idea then using disengage with charge :-P

[Sarkol]

Personaly I'm still debating if I'm going to play a DH or stay on my DK. I really fear that momentum end up beeing the playstyle for maximum DPS and to mee its just feel boring. Playing the suposed most mobile clas out there but having to waste that mobility into my damage dealing rotation feel weird. WW monk and warrior don't have to waste their mobility in their rotation.

Also some prepared lover exagerate how simplier deamon blade is. Its generate so much fury that you don,t find yourself staring at your screen like you where playing a BM hunter.

deamon blade is less predictable then prepared, its rotation is less static.

I guess that I just wish blizzard would come with a more interesting idea then using disengage with charge :-P

Interesting you think Momentum is 'boring'. If not using Momentum, Havoc is a builder spender class at it's very simplest of levels. No real procs, nothing to react to. Just build, spend, build, spend. It's built for Momentum.

[Schizoide]

Interesting you think Momentum is 'boring'. If not using Momentum, Havoc is a builder spender class at it's very simplest of levels. No real procs, nothing to react to. Just build, spend, build, spend. It's built for Momentum.

Yeah. You're not wrong.

It sure looks flashy, though!

[elfporn]

Yeah. You're not wrong.

It sure looks flashy, though!

it's irritating that people don't seem to like the style because there's never been anything like it before.

[Schizoide]

I tried blood sausage last year. First time. Hated it. Is that irritating to you?

[Varlak]

Prepared is much more flashy and fun to play with. Easy to do & difficult to master in combination with Fel rush.

How is VR + FR difficult to master ? Its easy as hell to master.

But my main grip with it is how it turn the most mobile class into Retribution paladin. Nothing piss me more then having to run away of a boss mechanic with my legs on my DH bcuz I had to use fel rush and VR to deal damage.

Not using these skill for dmg because you expect needing to escape mean to loose dmg.

On the other end I'm not a big fan of deamon blade either.

I just wish Demonic Appetite could be the solution but its kinda lack luster ATM.

I mean our T2 talent is down to this: Do you want to loose your mobility or your spamming attack ?

[Varlak]

Retribution paladins have more DPS buttons now than they can press. "my main is a pala * i'm offended by this :P"

regarding fel rush availablity. you always have 2 of them. You can use 1 of them always with retreat & save the other for other situations.

and btw. not using fel rush as damage dealer will result in a huge loss in dps. I suggest you check World of logs demon hunters to see how much damage fel rush does.

Mobility is still fine with prepared. In fact, it makes it more flexible.

so basically having 2 fel rush is exactly why we should use prepared. use 1 for dps & another for escape. Problem solved.

For Ret pala I was talking about the mobility.

I'm not talking about DH at 100 but DH at 110. If you take prepared it mean you also go for fel mastery and momentum otherwise your loosing on the huge synergy prepared have with it.

But anyway even if you won't go for momentum and fell mastery it still take 2/3 of your mobility tools. Saying prepared make your mobility more flexible just don't make any sense at all.

[Schizoide]

Not necessarily. Prepared is a small DPS improvement combined with Momentum. Momentum itself is a pretty small improvement, less than 5%. If you hate timing for the 4s Momentum window and aren't a min/maxer, you can take Nemesis and do fine. What you can't do is use Fel Rush as a movement ability alone. It must be used rotationally for its damage.

[Feawen]

There aren't, though. Even at 110 you're looking at 32% wait time. If you enjoy that, more power to you. But don't say you won't have tons of gaps with Demon Blades-- you will.

Clearly I must be playing my DH differently at 110 on beta than you are. Because I do not have a "32%" wait time. You just sound/seem like someone who did not like Momentum/Demon Blades and did not spend the time to learn/master it's playstyle. I will personally put you into that group of other DHs that I crush whenever I am in a group/raid with.

[FobManX]

I'm actually really enjoying using Fel Rush and Prepared right now. I'm not doing anything serious obviously, just invasions and what not, but its actually pretty fun swooping in and out of combat.

And yeah Fel Rush hits way too hard(at least with Fel Mastery talent)to not be used rotationally, so may as well go Momentum when it comes out.

I will never spec into Demon Blades. Haven't even tried it but I know it'll suck.

[Vanyali]

I will never spec into Demon Blades. Haven't even tried it but I know it'll suck.

This is an awful attitude to have, and will screw you should you get legendary ring if you're in any high level raid situation.

[Deleted]

Interesting you think Momentum is 'boring'. If not using Momentum, Havoc is a builder spender class at it's very simplest of levels. No real procs, nothing to react to. Just build, spend, build, spend. It's built for Momentum.

Sure is but that, on the other hand, makes it so interesting to gear for. YOu can really min max the shit out of that simple playstyle and see meaningful results. You can just mentally go for crit and win. It may be super simple, but it is also going in one direction with no remorse. I kinda like that idea.

[Haram]

Not necessarily. Prepared is a small DPS improvement combined with Momentum. Momentum itself is a pretty small improvement, less than 5%. If you hate timing for the 4s Momentum window and aren't a min/maxer, you can take Nemesis and do fine. What you can't do is use Fel Rush as a movement ability alone. It must be used rotationally for its damage.

That is specifically for a single target fight. In that case, with no adds, yes Momentum and Nemesis are neck-and-neck.

However, whenever you put adds into the mix, the more number/frequency of adds, the better Momentum does. Unfortunately the other two talents in that tier are solely single target (with nemesis being occasionally useful in AOE), which means that whenever there are adds you are going to be pretty much shoehorned into playing Momentum.

I wish Blizz would give us some other form of useful aoe damage to compensate Momentum in that talent tier.

- - - Updated - - -

And that is the general issue I have with Demon Hunters. In pretty much every talent tier, there seems to be the one "go-to" talent. For 99 Fel Mastery in 99% of cases is going to be your choice. With the intent to make Demon Blades considerably worse, then Prepared becomes the go to for 100. For 102, Bloodlet is the go to in almost every circumstance. For 106, Momentum is doing the best in ST (by <1%), cleave, and AOE. 108 is the biggest offender, with Master of the Glaive being the only choice to take ever. For 110, we get a slightly more understandable choice with Chaos Blades being the go-to for pure ST, and Fel Barrage being the choice for 2+ adds.

Edit: And before anyone says that what I am describing is the case for every spec, it isn't as abrasive as it is with the DH. I think the intention should be that for those who want to play a very mobile "flying-around-everywhere" spec with their DH to fulfill that class fantasy, then they should have that option, but for others who still want to do competitive DPS (and not be gimped by a substantial amount) they should have some sort of other option. Given that in our 106 talent tree there is only a single talent that can be used for 2+ targets on boss fights, and still does amazing damage on ST fights, it really shoehorns everyone into the Momentum build.

Edit 2: To further add on to this, I think that the whole concept of this redesigned talent system that we got in MoP was to give us more meaningful choices. Sure, for every single spec, there is going to be the most optimal talent build for each specific encounter. And mythic raiding min-maxers are always going to pick the most optimal build for each specific scenario. That being said, the difference shouldn't be Amazing DPS or Garbage. And that is the case with so many of the talent choices. There isn't really much of a choice in any talent tree save for maybe 110.

[ChakanDH]

I tried blood sausage last year. First time. Hated it. Is that irritating to you?

You tried it and you didn't like it - fair enough. But if you then said that no one should ever eat blood sausage and that you were wrong for liking it....see the issue?

[Schizoide]

That would be a HUGE issue, and completely horrible of me to say, if I said it. But I didn't.

I never said, or even implied, that Momentum or the mandatory Fel Rush playstyle should be removed from the game or that nobody enjoyed them. In fact, I've been advocating the exact opposite. I want using Fel Rush rotationally to be optional. If you choose to do it, you pick the highest damage talent on that tier. If not, not. But it shouldn't be a ~20% damage loss to choose not to use Fel Rush via picking another talent.

@Haram: Excellent point. I hadn't considered that the other 2 talents didn't apply to AE/cleave. You're 100% right. Given that, it might be worthwhile to take Momentum whether you plan on micromanaging the 4s window or not. Either way, it will apply to all your damage and not just some of it. At most you limit your micromanagement to using an ability in between vengeful retreat and fel rush.

[ChakanDH]

That would be a HUGE issue, and completely horrible of me to say, if I said it. But I didn't.

I never said, or even implied, that Momentum or the mandatory Fel Rush playstyle should be removed from the game or that nobody enjoyed them. In fact, I've been advocating the exact opposite. I want using Fel Rush rotationally to be optional. If you choose to do it, you pick the highest damage talent on that tier. If not, not. But it shouldn't be a ~20% damage loss to choose not to use Fel Rush via picking another talent.

@Haram: Excellent point. I hadn't considered that the other 2 talents didn't apply to AE/cleave. You're 100% right. Given that, it might be worthwhile to take Momentum whether you plan on micromanaging the 4s window or not. Either way, it will apply to all your damage and not just some of it. At most you limit your micromanagement to using an ability in between vengeful retreat and fel rush.

Ah my bad, that wasn't directly at you exactly, more the general attitude of people who don't like momentum/demon blades etc and feel it should be pulled from the game. Was just using your analogy as an example.

[Schizoide]

Not a problem. I'm all about choice, particularly since DHs only have a single DPS spec and right now it really does look like Havoc is locked into several talents rendered mandatory as they're balanced so much higher than the alternatives.

In the first tier, you must take Fel Mastery. Fel Rush must be used rotationally and it's one of the highest DPE abilities Havoc has, so it's the most damaging talent by far. Chaos Cleave doesn't even work if two targets aren't close together, very situational.

Third tier, Bloodlet is tons more damage than Felblade (which I would prefer, as I love using it) or First Blood.

Fifth tier, gotta take Momentum, because the alternatives either don't work at all in AE/cleave or have limited use there.

Sixth tier, gotta take Master of the Glaive as the alternatives have at best minor damage impact. Unleashed Power might be used for Mythic+ and PvP for more AE stuns, that's about it.

And seventh tier, Fel Barrage is balanced way above Chaos Blades, and Demonic has no damage impact at all. It's a soloing/leveling talent.

That's 5 out of 7 tiers where Havoc is essentially forced into talent choices. And that sucks.

[Haram]

Not a problem. I'm all about choice, particularly since DHs only have a single DPS spec and right now it really does look like Havoc is locked into several talents rendered mandatory as they're balanced so much higher than the alternatives.

In the first tier, you must take Fel Mastery. Fel Rush must be used rotationally and it's one of the highest DPE abilities Havoc has, so it's the most damaging talent by far. Chaos Cleave doesn't even work if two targets aren't close together, very situational.

Third tier, Bloodlet is tons more damage than Felblade (which I would prefer, as I love using it) or First Blood.

Fifth tier, gotta take Momentum, because the alternatives either don't work at all in AE/cleave or have limited use there.

Sixth tier, gotta take Master of the Glaive as the alternatives have at best minor damage impact. Unleashed Power might be used for Mythic+ and PvP for more AE stuns, that's about it.

And seventh tier, Fel Barrage is balanced way above Chaos Blades, and Demonic has no damage impact at all. It's a soloing/leveling talent.

That's 5 out of 7 tiers where Havoc is essentially forced into talent choices. And that sucks.

I completely agree. I remember watching Preach's initial take on the Havoc DH, and his biggest concern was the notion that the heavy movement build would be way ahead and the "absolute must" playstyle of the DH, which he didn't enjoy. I was hoping there was more leeway with regards to talent freedom, but it seems that Havoc is the most restrictive when it comes to it.

[Irian]

If Prepared is even comparable to Demon Blades, I'll take Prepared any day of the week. Demon Blades is atrocious and ruins the class for me. I would've preferred they redesign it but nerfing the hell out of it is fine as well.