How powerful is Kiljaedan ?

[Mehrunes]

Havn't seen impressive feats of the Old gods....

Except for the curse of Flesh? Creation of the Naga? Corruption of almost entirety of the Black Dragonflight? The War of the Shifting Sands?
Many more are able to be listed but why? You are clearly ignorant.

So mostly corruption of things that Qualia did mention? As they said, they can corrupt World Souls as well and create Void Titans. Doesn't make Old Gods more powerful than Void Titans. As such, doesn't necessarily make them more powerful than other things they corrupt. Also, they lost the War of the Shifting Sands to Night Elves and few dragons.

[Life-Binder]

Archimondes straight defeat in HFC killed any hype of him being > everything else except Sargeras/Titans

just an upper tier raid boss level enemy among many others

Deathwings fight was much more impressive


Azshara still has some hype, but she cant really be that much compared to DW (who was the Old Gods Champion/Herald .. him, not her) or the OGs themselves .. Id say NZoth >= Azshara

KJ also awaits his fight, but if he puts up a much more impressive one then he will be >> Archi

[Mehrunes]

The demon soul could only do anything to him, because he was covered in Adamentium Plates lol. In lore it was described as Archimonde being a lot more powerful then Deathwing. The fact you think Deathwing can take an Old God shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Y'shaarj > Deathwing. The End Times Dungeon shows Deathwing impaled on Wyrmrest Temple by the Old Gods. We didn't fight Yogg or C'thun with their full strength.

Where was there any lore comparison between Deathwing and Archimonde? Also, Deathwing was juiced up in Cataclysm and had his armor replaced to Elementium and (additionally empowered) Demon Soul was the only thing that could actually hurt him that the defenders of Azeroth could come up with. Also, Yogg was almost fully freed from his prison while from what I recall C'thun was fully freed already.

So you are saying Deathwing would be able to beat Y'shaarj in a fight? They couldn't have drove him mad and made him impale himself because he was already under their control. Xala'atath says he was the easiest for them to corrupt. While it doesn't say they would make him beg for mercy, it pretty much says that their power was able to drive him insane and bend him to their will.

Y'Shaarj means squat here since he was already dead when Deathwing was corrupted.

[Qualia]

Azshara is probatly still stronger than Him, as Mannoroth himself said that (at the tame of war of ancients) only his masters could even hope, to match her, Sargeras wasnt against taking her as a Wife, and this was before she was even a Naga, holding the power of the Old-Gods or stealing the Trident of Neptulon, Aszhara outweighs Kil'Jaeden, seeing as even at the time of War of the Ancients she was the Strongest Sorcerer to ever have lived, and isnt even considered outmatched by the likes of Aegwynn or Medivh~

Why do people misquote Mannoroth so much? He never said / thought "only his maters could even hope to match her". He thought they would be her superior

Rather, Mannoroth discovered that here was a force against which only his lord (Note: Kil'Jaeden) and Archimonde would prove superior. Try as he might, the demon would have found it easier to throttle himself than the queen

"hope to match her" and "prove to be her superior" are clearly different things here. For all we know, the difference in power could go Kil'Jaeden >= Archimonde >>>>>>>>>>> Azshara >>> Mannoroth here.

And strongest sorcerer ever lived? Isn't even considered outmatched by Aegwynn or Medivh? What? She was one of the strongest spellcasters back then. There is no indication that her power back then would be better than Aegwynn or Medivh. For all we know, Deathwing didn't want to fight against one spellcaster - and that was Medivh, not Azshara.

I'm not saying that Azshara isn't powerful - she clearly was, and still is. However, those claims about how powerful she was in the quote were exaggerated. It's very questionable whether she would match KJ, even now. Last time I checked, KJ / Archimonde effortlessly destroy planets, Azshara hasn't shown any indication of being able to do the same.
Also, Void Lords - not Gods - didn't make Sargeras freaked out because of their powers. They did that because of their ability to corrupt everything (except adult Titan) and possibly create a Void Titan. Void Titan could be the strongest being(s), but they are not Void Lords, and there isn't any indication that the Void Lords are more powerful than Sargeras yet (in fact, there are signs of them being weaker). We are still uncertain of how powerful they are.

Archimondes straight defeat in HFC killed any hype of him being > everything else except Sargeras/Titans

KJ also awaits his fight, but if he puts up a much more impressive one then he will be >> Archi

You can't really judge how strong someone is based only in his appearance in-game when they have show their abilities to do much more in other media, though. Plot-Induced Stupidity need to be there in game for us to win and survive.

[anaxie]

Deathwing was the most powerful boss we have ever faced. Can Kil'Jaedan destroy a planet with one spell powerful? We have no idea since he hasn't ever had to fight at full strength. He has always been a manipulator but we have seen what he can create. The LK one of his creations became extremely powerful. Powerful enough to kill the mightiest heroes in the world with one attack. The LK power was growing more and more with every soul he captured in his forge and pumped into his weapon. If kil'jaedan can make something like the Lich King he must be extremely powerful himself.

You're questioning if the Lord of the Burning Legion with a race that is purely based on an affinity for magic and now prominently FEL magic if Kil'jaeden can destroy a planet with a spell?

Are you serious?

we also can see that the Legion under his and archimondes command have destroyed tens of thousands of worlds.

lets not act like there is not a precedent. There is. Trillions of them.

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Archimondes straight defeat in HFC killed any hype of him being > everything else except Sargeras/Titans

just an upper tier raid boss level enemy among many others

Deathwings fight was much more impressive


Azshara still has some hype, but she cant really be that much compared to DW (who was the Old Gods Champion/Herald .. him, not her) or the OGs themselves .. Id say NZoth >= Azshara

KJ also awaits his fight, but if he puts up a much more impressive one then he will be >> Archi

If there is one thing that is almost universally claimed it's that Deathwing was very UNIMPRESSIVE.

probably the most dissapoiting tier endboss Nevermind EXPANSION endboss in the history of the game. Even his two fights combined still puts him at ultra shit status.

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So mostly corruption of things that Qualia did mention? As they said, they can corrupt World Souls as well and create Void Titans. Doesn't make Old Gods more powerful than Void Titans. As such, doesn't necessarily make them more powerful than other things they corrupt. Also, they lost the War of the Shifting Sands to Night Elves and few dragons.

Yes and Empowerment

one must be VERY powerful to empower the ones people are claiming are MORE powerful than their masters.

ass backwards logic

Yeah and the Lich King fell to ahandful of champions under the Argent Crusade.

No harm done right 90% world population extinct High Elves. and half a continent left in ruins.

ayyyyy

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

kiljaden is only outpowered by sargeras

the three most powerful being in the lore we know of are azshara (named to be "only outpowered by master kiljaden himself) with archimonde under her because kiljaden is stronger then archimonde, then kiljaden over her, then after that sargeras...

Not sure where you're getting that Kil'jaeden is more powerful than Archimonde or that Azshara is. In fact i'm pretty sure Archimonde is said to be more powerful than her in the war of the ancients trilogy, Mannoroth's "master" was Archimonde and not Kil'jaeden.

[Shaqthefat]

Where was there any lore comparison between Deathwing and Archimonde? Also, Deathwing was juiced up in Cataclysm and had his armor replaced to Elementium and (additionally empowered) Demon Soul was the only thing that could actually hurt him that the defenders of Azeroth could come up with. Also, Yogg was almost fully freed from his prison while from what I recall C'thun was fully freed already.


I don't remember exactly where I saw Archimonde's comparison to deathwing, but I do remember seeing it. Also thanks for reminding me it was Elementium. Originally thought it was that, but changed it to what it was doing WoTA. The demon Soul was the only thing that could get through the Elementium plates. Outside of that we just needed the help from the aspects to defeat him with the Demon Soul finishing the job. It was crucial to have the Demon Soul to break the Elemntium, but not as crucial as it was to to blow up the world tree to stop Archimonde. Also when I say fully strength Old Gods I'm talking before they were imprisoned and had their full size.




Y'Shaarj means squat here since he was already dead when Deathwing was corrupted.

If you are going to say Deathwing can take the old gods i'm going to include Y'shaarj. If we went with your logic this thread would be a comparison between Kil'Jaeden, Azshara, and Illidan

[Dezminion]

Hellfire Assault > Go'el > Lich King > Kil'Jaeden > Archimonde > Sargeras > Illidan

[Shaqthefat]

I'm not saying that Deathwing would be able to beat Y'Shaarj in a fight, nor am I saying that Deathwing won't. We don't really have enough information about Y'Shaarj to say how powerful he was. All we know was that he could shatter mountains - that's about it.
In regards to to able to bend him to their will - that's true. I'm not saying it's wrong. However, it's not a sign of being more powerful. You don't have to be more powerful than another being in order to control that being. The Old Gods can also corrupt nascent titans, drive them mad and manipulate Void Titans, but they clearly aren't as powerful as the titans. Sure, they are great at corrupting and manipulating, but we are talking about who is more powerful, not who is more likely to win in a fight (although it's similar in many cases, it's not the same this time).

I would say Deathwings strength is around that of Old Gods like C'thun, Yogg, and N'zoth, but Old Gods don't just use their brute strength. They use their void magic and the magic that each Old God is more fluent in. C'thun is more profound in Chaos, Yogg in death, and N'zoth in corruption. It is hard to tell who would beat who, but Deathwing never really showed to have that much magical power of which the Old Gods have a lot of.

[Direpenguin]

If you are going to say Deathwing can take the old gods i'm going to include Y'shaarj. If we went with your logic this thread would be a comparison between Kil'Jaeden, Azshara, and Illidan

I just have to laugh at the "we killed them in a raid" or "they are only Tier X bosses" nonsense. As if how encounters in WoW play out is the definitive canon for relative power in the lore universe.

I guess C'Thun is very weak, if you want to look at it like that. Pretty sure he was killed with less than 10k raid dps.. lololololololzerz

::eyeroll

[steelballfc]

no body post this yet so......
image hosting

[Shaqthefat]

I just have to laugh at the "we killed them in a raid" or "they are only Tier X bosses" nonsense. As if how encounters in WoW play out is the definitive canon for relative power in the lore universe.

I guess C'Thun is very weak, if you want to look at it like that. Pretty sure he was killed with less than 10k raid dps.. lololololololzerz

::eyeroll

Ikr. Jaylock was saying that Anduin is the most powerful leader now, because of shadow priest DPS in 7.0.

[Mehrunes]

Yes and Empowerment

one must be VERY powerful to empower the ones people are claiming are MORE powerful than their masters.

ass backwards logic

Pointing out that the Old Gods don't necessarily have to be stronger than the things they corrupt when I specifically pointed out Qualia's example of Void Titans, i.e. the result of Old God's corruption that we know for sure to be stronger than the Old Gods is ass backwards logic? Riveting tale mate.

Yeah and the Lich King fell to ahandful of champions under the Argent Crusade.

No harm done right 90% world population extinct High Elves. and half a continent left in ruins.

ayyyyy

And that is relevant, because?

If you are going to say Deathwing can take the old gods i'm going to include Y'shaarj. If we went with your logic this thread would be a comparison between Kil'Jaeden, Azshara, and Illidan

Except Qualia, whose point you contested with "but muh Y'Shaarj" said that the Old Gods that corrupted Deathwing and drove him mad don't have to necessarily be stronger than Deathwing. Y'Shaarj is not one of these Old Gods since he has been dead long before the creation of the Aspects. Context. And how the hell is the second sentence of your post "my logic"?

[anaxie]

Pointing out that the Old Gods don't necessarily have to be stronger than the things they corrupt when I specifically pointed out Qualia's example of Void Titans, i.e. the result of Old God's corruption that we know for sure to be stronger than the Old Gods is ass backwards logic? Riveting tale mate.




And that is relevant, because?




Except Qualia, whose point you contested with "but muh Y'Shaarj" said that the Old Gods that corrupted Deathwing and drove him mad don't have to necessarily be stronger than Deathwing. Y'Shaarj is not one of these Old Gods since he has been dead long before the creation of the Aspects. Context. And how the hell is the second sentence of your post "my logic"?

If the void titan births the Old god will be dead so it's kind of moot.

The Old gods were created to hopefully find and make Dark Titans. Like that is their purpose. The probably die when they succed making the single point that is an outliner entirely moot. especially considering the Dark Titans are supposed to be the only way for VOID Lords to manifest through a Dark Titan. So essentially the old gods are finding and corrupting a vessel for their masters. Or maybe not even their masters. The Old Gods could just as well be Avatars of Void Lords.

Anyway your point is fuck all bad.

If something can empower someone with incredible power they aren't going to be more powerful than the one that granted the power in the first place.

[Mehrunes]

I just have to laugh at the "we killed them in a raid" or "they are only Tier X bosses" nonsense. As if how encounters in WoW play out is the definitive canon for relative power in the lore universe.

I guess C'Thun is very weak, if you want to look at it like that. Pretty sure he was killed with less than 10k raid dps.. lololololololzerz

::eyeroll

None of the posts in the chain to which you replied mentioned anything about DPS or tiers.

If the void titan births the Old god will be dead so it's kind of moot.

How is it a moot point? It's an example of Old God creating something via their corruption that is stronger than them. And we don't know if they'd die from it.

[anaxie]

I just have to laugh at the "we killed them in a raid" or "they are only Tier X bosses" nonsense. As if how encounters in WoW play out is the definitive canon for relative power in the lore universe.

I guess C'Thun is very weak, if you want to look at it like that. Pretty sure he was killed with less than 10k raid dps.. lololololololzerz

::eyeroll

Kil'jaeden and Old gods are weaker than not ONE but Two Jormungar worms.

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None of the posts in the chain to which you replied mentioned anything about DPS or tiers.




How is it a moot point? It's an example of Old God creating something via their corruption that is stronger than them. And we don't know if they'd die from it.

yes the COMBINED old gods corruption. as in the sum total and thousands of years of corruption instead of a single BAM have some power bitches.

The Dark Titan is a different outliner compared to single mass empowerment which the Old Gods have been shown to do often toa large amount of races and faction sthat serve them.

I'm talking Empoweredment

GRANTING POWER

a Dark Titan is CORRUPTION as in twisting the being until it's the most vile thing in the universe. and it's taken the old gods combined thousands of years INSIDE a Titan Soul and the work of corruption still in not completed.

So yes the Dark Titan is the single instance of a more powerful creation. No shit considering that it's never been accomplished nor has it happened yet despite their combined efforts since the ordering. Also the fabled Dark Titan will never occur regardless considering it's the planet the game is primarily built upon. The planet being destroyed has a likeliehood of Zero.


So figmentations and what ifs aside.

annnnnnnd it's getting longwinded
I'll just make it easy.

Go pound sand

[Archmage Khadgar]

lol you all think Sargeras is the strongest.

Will be funny in an expansion or 2 when he gets killed by a 2-3-9 set up in heroic or just 20 people in mythic.

Every one of those characters is or is to be dead.

Who is the one person we could not kill? Illidan,

Illidan = Stroncest.

I really doubt that's how Sargeras is going to go down. He can literally cleave planets in half. I can't see him ever being a raid boss unless we are ridiculously empowered by something.

[Raetary]

I really doubt that's how Sargeras is going to go down. He can literally cleave planets in half. I can't see him ever being a raid boss unless we are ridiculously empowered by something.

1)pretty much, he's big enough to play continent for an expansion.
2)dont feed him.

[Shaqthefat]

Except Qualia, whose point you contested with "but muh Y'Shaarj" said that the Old Gods that corrupted Deathwing and drove him mad don't have to necessarily be stronger than Deathwing. Y'Shaarj is not one of these Old Gods since he has been dead long before the creation of the Aspects. Context. And how the hell is the second sentence of your post "my logic"?

Because you said he doesn't mean anything because he was dead when Deathwing was corrupted. If you are going to pull that then say the Old Gods you are referring to which would be C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and N'zoth. Don't just say the Old Gods, Azeroth had 4 on it therefor I am going to include all 4. That would be like saying the Titan armies were able to defeat the Old Gods, even though Aman'Thul had to rip Y'shaarj out because he was too powerful. His entire thing was that Deathwing was more powerful and I contested that, by bringing up Y'shaarj. Deathwing used brute strength. The Old Gods use their strength and their magical prowess. The Old Gods corrupted him and gave him his power. Im pretty sure the Old Gods wouldn't make a him more powerful than them.

[Mehrunes]

The Old gods were created to hopefully find and make Dark Titans. Like that is their purpose. The probably die when they succed making the single point that is an outliner entirely moot. especially considering the Dark Titans are supposed to be the only way for VOID Lords to manifest through a Dark Titan. So essentially the old gods are finding and corrupting a vessel for their masters. Or maybe not even their masters. The Old Gods could just as well be Avatars of Void Lords.

The Void Lords manifested just fine before they decided to create Old Gods. Substantiating your idea that Old Gods die when they create a Dark Titan with speculation is inane and you would be better off with not substantiating it with anything. Void Titans aren't Void Lords. What an amazing display of your lore prowess /s

Anyway your point is fuck all bad.

If something can empower someone with incredible power they aren't going to be more powerful than the one that granted the power in the first place.

The post I quoted (or my reply) mentioned fuck all about empowerment, it mentioned corruption and a war C'thun's forces lost (and in which C'thun didn't even fight personally so was monumentally idiotic example of C'thun's prowess in more way than one). If I were you I'd try to remember what my point even was before I called other people's points "fuck all bad".

yes the COMBINED old gods corruption. as in the sum total and thousands of years of corruption

So like Deathwing?

The Dark Titan is a different outliner compared to single mass empowerment which the Old Gods have been shown to do often toa large amount of races and faction sthat serve them.

I'm talking Empoweredment

GRANTING POWER

Yes, you mentioning Curse of Flesh, creation of the Naga or the corruption of Black Dragonflight was "talking empowerment".

a Dark Titan is CORRUPTION as in twisting the being until it's the most vile thing in the universe. and it's taken the old gods combined thousands of years INSIDE a Titan Soul and the work of corruption still in not completed.

We have so much data in terms of timespan required to turn a World Soul into a Void Titan /s

I'll just make it easy.

I'd say you made it easy with the first paragraph already when you shot yourself in the foot.

Go pound sand

Go make an argument that is consistent or grounded in lore or kindly slither away to fanfiction.net.

Because you said he doesn't mean anything because he was dead when Deathwing was corrupted. If you are going to pull that then say the Old Gods you are referring to which would be C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and N'zoth. Don't just say the Old Gods, Azeroth had 4 on it therefor I am going to include all 4. That would be like saying the Titan armies were able to defeat the Old Gods, even though Aman'Thul had to rip Y'shaarj out because he was too powerful. His entire thing was that Deathwing was more powerful and I contested that, by bringing up Y'shaarj. Deathwing used brute strength. The Old Gods use their strength and their magical prowess. The Old Gods corrupted him and gave him his power. Im pretty sure the Old Gods wouldn't make a him more powerful than them.

Seriously...

They didn't overpower him. They driven him mad and made him impaled himself on the Wrymrest Temple. That isn't a conclusive proof of being more powerful.

The point was about Old Gods that driven Deathwing mad. That does not include Y'Shaarj by default. There's no need to specify by name that one is not considering Y'Shaarj there. Just like it would be redundant to point out Y'Shaarj by name in your post to which Qualia was replying there, i.e. one about Old Gods impaling Deathwing on top of Wyrmrest.