Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Vanyali]

What is a young voter? I am within spitting distance of 30 and will almost certainly be a mom next year.

As I've pointed out and ANY newspaper will tall you, Hillary is going to be president. Until Trump broaches even a 25% odds of being president we can safely breathe and look into just what policies we are going to get out of this new president of ours.

So you're from the future, then? Because no newspaper is saying Hillary is the next president. They're saying it's likely, but still possible that she could lose.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you seriously see Trump recovering from his almost freakish tendency to crash his own campaign?

Irrelevant.

All calling the election does is mean less people vote for hillary / split, then suddenly you wake up "how did trump win? it was promised! IT WAS A SURE THING!"

[alexw]

This is why lots of moderates will vote for Hillary. No reason for them to fear that she will move too far to the left, and the republican senate will hold her in check even if she tries. The lowest number of republican senators that I've seen projected is 48 or 49, well above the 40 needed to sustain veto. And very few people are predicting that the democrats take over the house.

Whoever has the majority in the senate sets the rules under which it operates. So if republicans try to veto everything, particularly supreme court nominees then the nuclear option will be implemented and the minority veto rule removed.

Moreover with a liberal supreme court you can expect all the voter disenfranchisement laws and gerrymandering to be ended, meaning that the lock the republicans have on the house isn't going to last for too much longer either.

[Theodarzna]

Whoever has the majority in the senate sets the rules under which it operates. So if republicans try to veto everything, particularly supreme court nominees then the nuclear option will be implemented and the minority veto rule removed.

Moreover with a liberal supreme court you can expect all the voter disenfranchisement laws and gerrymandering to be ended, meaning that the lock the republicans have on the house isn't going to last for too much longer either.

Voting for a Democrat senate seems prudent. Kamala Harris in California is the best candidate running.

- - - Updated - - -

So you're from the future, then? Because no newspaper is saying Hillary is the next president. They're saying it's likely, but still possible that she could lose.

Irrelevant.

All calling the election does is mean less people vote for hillary / split, then suddenly you wake up "how did trump win? it was promised! IT WAS A SURE THING!"

I am from the only reasonable future anyone can right now project. And I have even said "Hey if the odds creep back into Trump's favor, lets go back to the STOP TRUMP mantra." But here and NOW, it appears TRUMP will not be president, not even close to being president.

And pardon me for thinking Hillary might actually have to work for her new office, even a little bit.

[Felya]

I am attacking the only argument I've seen seriously made by anyone, that Hillary is our best hope against the unmitigated nightmare Trumpscape.

That is the best reason to vote for her at this point. There are few that would argue she is a great candidate. She is flawed and you will find few that don't see it. It's a simple fact, that our choices for president are not what we want them to be. Regardless of who is running, you will rarly, if ever, find a candidate that is perfect for you. Then, regardless of what you claim, the choice is between the lesser of two evils. Even if you argue for it being the best choice and not the lest bad, realize that it's just the cup half full version of the same thing.

Well, that isn't going to happen. Trump IS NOT going to be president. Look at every poll, look at them. Hillary is going to be president of the United States. If you are in the camp of Bill Maher and saying "I don't even care about the issues, just stopping Trump." or in Skroe's camp of "This is now Putin vs. Clinton!" well Clinton is going to absolutely win, its not even a maybe in realistic terms. Nobody but the most diehard Trump supporter believes he will be president.

I disagree. I think the 'let the world burn' idiot vote, is under valued. Trump will shock the world, even if he doesn't win... It will be far closer than it looks now... The current metrics in voting, as far as valuing D and R, are not representative of what Trump is.

If for example you don't trust her stance on TPP is sincere or you strongly suspect there will be boots on the ground and various wars in the Middle East for four more years, and your only motivation for Hillary is to stop Trump, well, Trump is not going to win. No poll, no polling trend, NOTHING gives that guy a chance in hell of being president.

That means his win could come from a place no one is looking. Remember, what you are saying about Trump isn't new. It has been said for well over a year. Yet... Here we are...

So lets go back and look at her policy and her ideology, since we are now free from the horrifying consequence of a Trump presidency.

You should do this regardless of who you want to win. Otherwise, you are disengenous... I want Hillary to win, which will not stop me for calling out shit she does... The problem, like the crap about murders she is responsible for in this thread, there are a lot of not legitimate issues with her candidacy being trumpeted over legitimate issues...

Why is her founding ISIS the big issue with Trump? There are far more legitimate issues she has...

[Kyriani]

So now we're debating what amendments were offered? I thought we were discussing what was actually included in the platform, specifically in regards to being pro forced conversion therapy.

I wasn't debating anything >_> I was simply providing further context to Spectral when they asked where in the Republican Platform they talked about Conversion Therapy. The Time article points out that the Family Research Council (a well know anti-gay group) submitted an amendment to the Republican Platform to promote conversion therapy. The RNC bigwigs wisely edited the language to be more ambiguous to avoid more harsh scrutiny of their platform in that regard.

[Zarc]

People said the UK would vote remain... then everyone was all chocked when they voted leave by a 51%-49% margin. Do I think Turmp will be President? No. Would I, if I was an American, vote for Clinton to make sure that the polls end up being predictive of the actual result on election day? Yes I would. Don't take anything for granted. Also, for anyone who dislikes Clinton for whichever reason and would like to see the GOP moderate themselves and become a real alternative then the harder Trump loses the better the odds for that happening, so contribute to making that defeat as big as possible.

[Vanyali]

I am from the only reasonable future anyone can right now project. And I have even said "Hey if the odds creep back into Trump's favor, lets go back to the STOP TRUMP mantra." But here and NOW, it appears TRUMP will not be president, not even close to being president.

And pardon me for thinking Hillary might actually have to work for her new office, even a little bit.

Yeah, you're back to "she's being voted because she's owed, not because she's working for it".

No, advocating for split votes is pretty fucking retarded in all situations. Here's a pretty picture to sum things up for you:

[Theodarzna]

That is the best reason to vote for her at this point. There are few that would argue she is a great candidate. She is flawed and you will find few that don't see it. It's a simple fact, that our choices for president are not what we want them to be. Regardless of who is running, you will rarly, if ever, find a candidate that is perfect for you. Then, regardless of what you claim, the choice is between the lesser of two evils. Even if you argue for it being the best choice and not the lest bad, realize that it's just the cup half full version of the same thing.

Well congratulations, at this specific juncture in time, and for the last few weeks it appears as though Trump isn't even a remote possibility. And in this forum, in this thread I can find you a few who either do not see it or would never vocalize it. But I am glad you have actually stated this as Its something refreshing to hear.

I would argue that the "Lesser of two evils," argument is akin to picking a fever of 107 vs. a fever of 170. The fever of 105°F or more is potentially fetal and may even cause long term health consequences. Heck I think people have survived 107.6 F maybe even more. Though for sure, 170°F is absolutely fatal.

I do not disagree with that calculus and even after the conventions I stated as such "All things being as they are I will vote for her," AND have frequently posted pro-Hillary stuff in this thread (Which none of the current crop of people giving me shit seem to recall nor willing to give credit for). We are however no longer under the immediate likely threat of a Trump presidency. With his polls somewhere buried in a swamp, and no sign of a recovery on any horizon, I am wondering if NOW is not the time to inquire about the Evil that will almost certainly be the next President.

Going back to my fever analogy. Sure, I would choose the 107°F fever and risk permanent damage but MAY survive versus 170°F which is basically spontaneous human combustion. But now that 170°F is not happening, maybe I should critical ask about why the 107°F while I still have the ability to? Or am I just to hold my tongue until AFTER I can no longer do even the most pitiful form of resistance known as voting?

I disagree. I think the 'let the world burn' idiot vote, is under valued. Trump will shock the world, even if he doesn't win... It will be far closer than it looks now... The current metrics in voting, as far as valuing D and R, are not representative of what Trump is.

I would love that to be true and for Hillary to actually have to campaign and earn those votes. But let us look at the facts we have now. Hillary is 88-11 with Trump. At this specific moment, SHE is going to be president. Heck if you don't live in a Swing state your vote practically is meaningless. Shall we take this moment to ask ourselves "Just what is this evil we are picking to be president?" Let us unpack what we are going to get? Or is that only allowed AFTER the actual votes are cast?

That means his win could come from a place no one is looking. Remember, what you are saying about Trump isn't new. It has been said for well over a year. Yet... Here we are...

What is weird, is now that I am in the reverse seat of saying "Look, Trump cannot win," I am being met, rather hilariously with the same argument I've made for why Trump could win and been given shit for. What you are saying about Trump is what I myself have said about Trump. I think if Hillary wants to win she should try hard to win, not expect us to all be guilty and cowed into meekly and obediently picking some evil out of obligation or fear.

You should do this regardless of who you want to win. Otherwise, you are disengenous... I want Hillary to win, which will not stop me for calling out shit she does... The problem, like the crap about murders she is responsible for in this thread, there are a lot of not legitimate issues with her candidacy being trumpeted over legitimate issues...

Why is her founding ISIS the big issue with Trump? There are far more legitimate issues she has...

I am sincerely shocked to hear anyone say its okay to call her on her shit or be suspicious of her. I thank you for at the very least conceding that is a valid thing to do.

I am currently indifferent. I neither live in a State that matters, nor does she have a guarantee of being right on specific core issues. I'd like to talk about TPP and her allegiances to Kissinger, if that pleases the court here.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, you're back to "she's being voted because she's owed, not because she's working for it".

No, advocating for split votes is pretty fucking retarded in all situations. Here's a pretty picture to sum things up for you:

Ah.... there it is in all its glory "Vote for Hillary you evil white shitlord!" Best not be critical or even ask what we are voting for, just shut up and do it.

[Vanyali]

Ah.... there it is in all its glory "Vote for Hillary you evil white shitlord!" Best not be critical or even ask what we are voting for, just shut up and do it.

I take it you didn't actually read it, except the end line.

Not that I really expected you to, but alas.

[Wells]

Who said its not ok to criticize Clinton?

[Theodarzna]

I take it you didn't actually read it, except the end line.

Not that I really expected you to, but alas.

I got to "You're an educated white American....." and then skimmed that drivel in-between laughing reading something else.

[Wells]

I got to "You're an educated white American....." and then skimmed that drivel in-between laughing reading something else.

So you're saying you didn't read the post you then complained about....

Thanks for "contributing"

[Tragedia]

Go ahead and don't vote for her if you think your vote is so meaningless. The rest of us are going to stop Trump.

Also Hillary Clinton is many things, but evil? Come on.

[Vanyali]

I got to "You're an educated white American....." and then skimmed that drivel in-between laughing reading something else.

Yes yes.

Try actually reading it. You know, the part about voting for third parties, which is why I linked it.

[Theodarzna]

So you're saying you didn't read the post you then complained about....

Thanks for "contributing"

Considering I'm marginally an American (I wasn't born here)

I've never said "We need a revolution," and the theoretical need for one isn't why I am skeptical of Clinton or given pause when thinking about voting for her, I considered it just pathetic guilt trip drivel to strawman anyone who dares suggest maybe Clinton isn't great and Hey Maybe we should think a bit more critically about who our president is going to be so we know what to expect.

[Wells]

Considering I'm marginally an American (I wasn't born here)

I've never said "We need a revolution," and the theoretical need for one isn't why I am skeptical of Clinton or given pause when thinking about voting for her, I considered it just pathetic guilt trip drivel to strawman anyone who dares suggest maybe Clinton isn't great and Hey Maybe we should think a bit more critically about who our president is going to be so we know what to expect.

The degree to which your posts are routinely entirely disconnected from the post you're quoting makes following your claims impossible.

[Theodarzna]

Go ahead and don't vote for her if you think your vote is so meaningless. The rest of us are going to stop Trump.

Also Hillary Clinton is many things, but evil? Come on.

Not my words, @Felya called her evil, I just simply rolled with the "Lesser of two evils," statement.

And exactly, considering I am in the distinct minority for even raising the specter of it not mattering if you vote or not for Hillary (If you are someone for whom you don't trust her on core issues) than why the fuck are so many acting like I just smeared period blood on the Virgin Mary re-incarnated?

[Orbitus]

Lets take Crooked Hillary down.

Down where? She is kicking your fake ass all over the country, even in states that have been red since the Southern Strategy.

[Omega10]

Trump IS NOT going to be president.

This cannot be said with any degree of certainty. The best way to make this prediction come true is to campaign as hard as possible to assure that Hillary really does win the election.

[Orbitus]

Your position was that children should be able to determine what medical treatment they receive, yes? I think it's a self evidently stupid position.

Are you seriously saying that a 6 year old kid should be forced into conversion therapy simply because a christian family says so? Even though they have no idea what sex they are attracted to?