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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    You can create a DH with no tattoos for gameplay purposes as not everyone might be a fan of them. There's no Demon Hunters without tattoos in lore, never has been and never will be because their tattoos give them powers. DH's DO have to cut their eyes out, please read Illidan novel before spewing bullshit. Hooves/Horns were heavily associated with Metamorphosis until Legion, now it's just Hooves that are. And again, gameplay purposes. Shadow Hunters are very far from being Demon Hunters. VERY far.
    Again, read what I said. I even comented on the fact about a fresh demon hunter. I've read Illidan, and again, they don't have TO cut their eyes out. Literally the only thing they "Might" have to do is exactly the tattoos, which helps them bind the demon and bla bla bla. I've never mentioned the shadow hunters or their similarity with DH.

    And no need to "before spewing bullshit." Even disagreeing with the other post, I didn't attack himself.
    Suddenly, one day, 99.7% of the Lich King's death knights broke free.
    Clearly, the lich king was keylogged

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    It makes sense that old gods that thrive off of nature would support an undead being that corrupts the land, but doesn't make sense that someone known as 'The Deceiver' would use deception? Uh huh.
    What is this comment about? I didn't say that Kil'jaeden don't use deception wtf.

  3. #63
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    You want to talk about things saying it doesn't make sense, why would the wild gods promote someone that focuses on undeath? Why would they promote someone that has scarred lands and gone against the Horde's leadership?
    Wild Gods don't give a shit about Horde politics like they barely give a shit about mortals to begin with, they're "big picture" kind of entities. Just look at Xe'ra and how she treated us like imbeciles for killing a murderer and slaver as Illidan because he also happened to be "the child of the prophecy".

    If appointing Sylvanas accomplishes the occurring of a certain event that wouldn't occurr otherwise, than she'll get appointed.

    Jaina being a Dreadlord has NOTHING to back it up, this actually has a shred of possibility, because if there is nothing going on?
    Having a "shred of possibility" doesn't equalize to having anything to back it up, because there's nothing backing up this theory except "I don't get behind this thing so I'll believe some evil dude appointed Sylvanas".

    This is the story telling equivalent of 'A wizard did it', there is NO reason for him to make Silvanas Warchief, and even states so flat out, but 'a loa told me to do it' makes it fine.
    And so we'll go with "a demon did it", which is so much better.

    And I guess you didn't listen the speech carefully, because the overall point of it was "I never trusted you, but maybe I was wrong. I got some uber insight from divine beings and decided that make you Warchief is the thing to do, even though many will not understand" which is not exactly the same as "Listen, some spirit told me that you must be Warchief because, well, I don't know, whatever. Enjoy your stay".

    Saying 'a loa told me to' is bad writing, and it's insulting to Silvanas. I want her to 'earn' the seat.
    Hardly insulting, as no one on Azeroth would have trusted her enough to put the responsibility of a whole faction on her shoulders, something she was perfectly aware of. If anything, saving the Horde on the Broken Shore can be pretty much considered "earning" the title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    Yea, having fel poison running through your whole body and on the edge of death certainly wouldn't impair the judgement of a spiritual individual who has the weight of a faction on his shoulders to appoint a new leader. No chance of that being a thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cl4nK View Post
    If anything, I'd say the circumstances are even more favorable. Vol'jin is dying, with a fel energy wound fucking him up, to the point where he is even going blind and his very skin is fucked up. What time is more favorable for a false vision than exactly at your death bed, caused by Fel damage?
    Except Vol'jin didn't seem to lose any shred of lucidity, he was merely struggling against the pain and impending death. He even talked about the "Loa spirits" first when they confirmed to him that death was going to claim him soon. Chances that he suddenly went bonkers and mistook a Kil'jaeden who came out of nowhere as a Loa or, even better, Vol'jin just utterly lost the ability to recognize the Loa he's used to commune with because of "fel poison"?

    Well, that's up to you to decide. To me, the chances are close to 0%. Pretty much like the ones of Jaina being a Dreadlord.

    And I got exactly the other vibe from it, Vol'jin, if he had to chose, would choose anyone over Sylvannas. If he had not received the Visions, I'd wager he would pick either Baine or Lothemar over her.
    Except he also stated that never he would have imagined that, of all people, Sylvanas herself would have saved the Horde on the Broken Shore. It sounded like Vol'jin simply reaffirmed his overall opinion about her and how has somewhat changed, with the vision serving as a further enlightining factor to effectively take such a controversial decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    What is this comment about? I didn't say that Kil'jaeden don't use deception wtf.
    Your words

    Lol'd.

    OT:
    I think that they were just loa... You know, the old spirits etc.

    No, that wouldn't make a sense if Kil'jaeden would do that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Wild Gods don't give a shit about Horde politics like they barely give a shit about mortals to begin with, they're "big picture" kind of entities. Just look at Xe'ra and how she treated us like imbeciles for killing a murderer and slaver as Illidan because he also happened to be "the child of the prophecy".

    If appointing Sylvanas accomplishes the occurring of a certain event that wouldn't occurr otherwise, than she'll get appointed.



    Having a "shred of possibility" doesn't equalize to having anything to back it up, because there's nothing backing up this theory except "I don't get behind this thing so I'll believe some evil dude appointed Sylvanas".



    And so we'll go with "a demon did it", which is so much better.

    And I guess you didn't listen the speech carefully, because the overall point of it was "I never trusted you, but maybe I was wrong. I got some uber insight from divine beings and decided that make you Warchief is the thing to do, even though many will not understand" which is not exactly the same as "Listen, some spirit told me that you must be Warchief because, well, I don't know, whatever. Enjoy your stay".



    Hardly insulting, as no one on Azeroth would have trusted her enough to put the responsibility of a whole faction on her shoulders, something she was perfectly aware of. If anything, saving the Horde on the Broken Shore can be pretty much considered "earning" the title.




    Except Vol'jin didn't seem to lose any shred of lucidity, he was merely struggling against the pain and impending death. He even talked about the "Loa spirits" first when they confirmed to him that death was going to claim him soon. Chances that he suddenly went bonkers and mistook a Kil'jaeden who came out of nowhere as a Loa or, even better, Vol'jin just utterly lost the ability to recognize the Loa he's used to commune with because of "fel poison"?

    Well, that's up to you to decide. To me, the chances are close to 0%. Pretty much like the ones of Jaina being a Dreadlord.



    Except he also stated that never he would have imagined that, of all people, Sylvanas herself would have saved the Horde on the Broken Shore. It sounded like Vol'jin simply reaffirmed his overall opinion about her and how has somewhat changed, with the vision serving as a further enlightining factor to effectively take such a controversial decision.
    You've dug in your heels and won't admit it's a possibility, where in I'm saying it could go either way. A deceiver using deceptive means to manipulate makes sense, that's why it's possible. You don't really want discussion though you just want to prove you're right, so I'll leave yah be.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    Your words

    Lol'd.

    OT:
    I think that they were just loa... You know, the old spirits etc.

    No, that wouldn't make a sense if Kil'jaeden would do that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You've dug in your heels and won't admit it's a possibility, where in I'm saying it could go either way. A deceiver using deceptive means to manipulate makes sense, that's why it's possible. You don't really want discussion though you just want to prove you're right, so I'll leave yah be.
    And you another sylvanas hater as the rest is so desperately trying to prove something that doesnt exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    In other countries like Canada the population has chosen to believe in hope, peace and tolerance. This we can see from the election of the Honourable Justin Trudeau who stood against the politics of hate and divisiveness.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibito View Post
    And you another sylvanas hater as the rest is so desperately trying to prove something that doesnt exist.
    Cute, seeing as I've said several times I have nothing against Silvanas and would actually like to see her as Warchief, just not because 'a spirit said so'.

    Keep fanboying though, it's adorable.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post


    Except Vol'jin didn't seem to lose any shred of lucidity, he was merely struggling against the pain and impending death. He even talked about the "Loa spirits" first when they confirmed to him that death was going to claim him soon. Chances that he suddenly went bonkers and mistook a Kil'jaeden who came out of nowhere as a Loa or, even better, Vol'jin just utterly lost the ability to recognize the Loa he's used to commune with because of "fel poison"?

    Well, that's up to you to decide. To me, the chances are close to 0%. Pretty much like the ones of Jaina being a Dreadlord.
    So? It can happen. That's the thing. Ner'zhul had regular correspondance with his late wife, and yet got tricket by Kil'jaeden, it wasn't like he was griefing and mourning a recent passing. Hell, it passed several moons between KJ first posing as his wife until he finally appeared in front of Ner'zhul to command him into doing his biddings.

    Sure, Vol'jin wasn't delirious, but he wasn't 100% focused up either, and it's not above him either to be deceived. I mean, Ner'zhul got directly played out by KJ, posing as his wife, even thou he had regular comunications with her.

    But somehow that's unthinkable to happen with Vol'jin? He can't be played for a fool while he literally bleeds out of Fel damage? I mean, Vol'jin and the Darkspear had lost communications with their Loa for a while, until the whole Cataclysm/Siege of Orgrimmar thing. Vol'jin got played before my mortals, but he can't be fooled by KJ?

    It's not about saying it'll happen or it happened, but rather to simply admit that it can happen.

    In this case I have to agree with Wolfheart9 below me.

    "You've dug your heels in and won't admit it's a possibility".
    Suddenly, one day, 99.7% of the Lich King's death knights broke free.
    Clearly, the lich king was keylogged

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Cl4nK View Post
    So? It can happen. That's the thing. Ner'zhul had regular correspondance with his late wife, and yet got tricket by Kil'jaeden, it wasn't like he was griefing and mourning a recent passing. Hell, it passed several moons between KJ first posing as his wife until he finally appeared in front of Ner'zhul to command him into doing his biddings.

    Sure, Vol'jin wasn't delirious, but he wasn't 100% focused up either, and it's not above him either to be deceived. I mean, Ner'zhul got directly played out by KJ, posing as his wife, even thou he had regular comunications with her.

    But somehow that's unthinkable to happen with Vol'jin? He can't be played for a fool while he literally bleeds out of Fel damage? I mean, Vol'jin and the Darkspear had lost communications with their Loa for a while, until the whole Cataclysm/Siege of Orgrimmar thing. Vol'jin got played before my mortals, but he can't be fooled by KJ?

    It's not about saying it'll happen or it happened, but rather to simply admit that it can happen.

    In this case I have to agree with Wolfheart9 below me.

    "You've dug your heels in and won't admit it's a possibility".
    Oh, I also forgot to mention

    It's also shown that Shaw is a Dreadlord, and has been feeding Genn bad information to prompt him into attacking Silvanas. Sounds like manipulations on both sides to keep them fighting

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Cl4nK View Post
    So? It can happen. That's the thing. Ner'zhul had regular correspondance with his late wife, and yet got tricket by Kil'jaeden, it wasn't like he was griefing and mourning a recent passing. Hell, it passed several moons between KJ first posing as his wife until he finally appeared in front of Ner'zhul to command him into doing his biddings.

    Sure, Vol'jin wasn't delirious, but he wasn't 100% focused up either, and it's not above him either to be deceived. I mean, Ner'zhul got directly played out by KJ, posing as his wife, even thou he had regular comunications with her.

    But somehow that's unthinkable to happen with Vol'jin? He can't be played for a fool while he literally bleeds out of Fel damage? I mean, Vol'jin and the Darkspear had lost communications with their Loa for a while, until the whole Cataclysm/Siege of Orgrimmar thing. Vol'jin got played before my mortals, but he can't be fooled by KJ?

    It's not about saying it'll happen or it happened, but rather to simply admit that it can happen.

    In this case I have to agree with Wolfheart9 below me.

    "You've dug your heels in and won't admit it's a possibility".
    YEAH so Kil'jaedens plot to cause the horde downfall is to trick them into appointing the most experience, and viable leader possible.

    Doesn't make sense because it didn't happen. Sylvanas is an awesome anti-hero. Get over it

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpOfficial View Post
    I don't get the problem with Sylvanas being Warchief. She's a capable leader.
    Isnt she a tad genocidal.....didnt you guys already have to deal with a genocidal nutter for chief?
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    Oh, I also forgot to mention

    It's also shown that Shaw is a Dreadlord, and has been feeding Genn bad information to prompt him into attacking Silvanas. Sounds like manipulations on both sides to keep them fighting
    Both sides?

    no sounds like manipulation on the Allaince side and hot head Genn goes full retard.

    secondly its spelled

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    YEAH so Kil'jaedens plot to cause the horde downfall is to trick them into appointing the most experience, and viable leader possible.

    Doesn't make sense because it didn't happen. Sylvanas is an awesome anti-hero. Get over it
    And another showing of digging in your heels and hero-worshiping someone that has been intentionally written to come off as dark.

    Silvanas has shown, more than any other Horde leader/character, a disregard for the Horde as a whole and anyone that's not forsaken. She has endangered many lives because of her refusal to get rid of the plague, and it's been part of the story since the start of WoW that she's only part of the Horde for convenience sake.

    Fact of the matter is with my earlier spoiler above this post and that KJ is shown to be a major player, you can't rightfully say it's 100% impossible without putting your fingers in your ears and saying 'la la la' over and over again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Both sides?

    no sounds like manipulation on the Allaince side and hot head Genn goes full retard.

    secondly its spelled

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS

    SYLVANAS
    Meh, I'm done with this topic. Tried to have an actual discussion but it's just people accusing others of hate of a character despite there being none. It's Garrosh love all over again. Take care all.
    Last edited by Wolfheart9; 2016-08-14 at 08:20 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    Isnt she a tad genocidal.....didnt you guys already have to deal with a genocidal nutter for chief?
    No?

    She locks down her borders like any sane country major power would do.

    The issue was Stormwind thinking they had any right to go and claim anything on her doorstep. She promptly skullfucked the Alliance.

    Shes the former Ranger General of Silvermoon. She has been leading armies for. Well

    Probably hundreds of years and still does to this day and now directs the entire horde.

    If you go against her you are probably going to get skullfucked.

    Source?

    Cataclysm Eastern Kingdoms War
    Sylvanas kicking Arthas and the Dreadlords ass with nothing but a handful of Soldiers and her tactical prowess and cunning. when her will was broken free.

    The only nation that gave Arthas pause during his crusade of destruction across Lordaeron in the Third War. because of their Ranger Generals tenacity.

    And Lastly she knows when to retreat because of her training. Hence why she sounded the retreat from the broken shore. The Allaince we hurp durp FOR THE ALLAINCEING infront of an unwinnable battle against all the generals of the burning Legion when they should of got a clue and got the fuck out too.

    Naw man its just the Lords of the Burning Legion. ALL OF THEM we got this.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2016-08-14 at 08:24 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    YEAH so Kil'jaedens plot to cause the horde downfall is to trick them into appointing the most experience, and viable leader possible.

    Doesn't make sense because it didn't happen. Sylvanas is an awesome anti-hero. Get over it
    Read what I said. Again. And then one more time, just to make sure. I'll even bold it for you.


    It's not about saying it'll happen or it happened, but rather to simply admit that it can happen.
    Or if you want to, look for my other posts.

    I get what you're saying. I for one don't think this is the case either, but for the sake of the argument.
    I agree with you FFS. I'm just saying it is a possibility that KJ can in fact pose as a Loa or can in fact manipulate Vol'jin. I don't agree with it. I don't think KJ has anything to do with it. I don't have anything against Sylvanas being the new Warchief.

    Get it now? I'm just argumenting for the sake of having a discussion about the Lore, not about who's right or who's wrong.

    Again, just to make sure.


    I AGREE WITH YOU
    Suddenly, one day, 99.7% of the Lich King's death knights broke free.
    Clearly, the lich king was keylogged

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    They don’t cut their eyes out.

    They don’t use fel magic.

    They don’t tattoo themselves with magic runes.

    They don’t have demonic features, i.e. horns/hooves/wings.

    Definitely not demon hunters. Shadow hunters are like a hybridization of rogue, shadow priest, and witch doctor.
    They use glaives.

    They hunt dark entities.

  16. #76
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Are you under the impression all Loa are undead?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    YEAH so Kil'jaedens plot to cause the horde downfall is to trick them into appointing the most experience, and viable leader possible.

    Doesn't make sense because it didn't happen. Sylvanas is an awesome anti-hero. Get over it
    It actually makes alot of sense. Sylvanas becoming warchief almost guarantees the Horde and Alliance will be at eachother's throats. Doesn't matter who is at fault. Serious tensions between the Horde and Alliance will only benefit the Legion.

    Of course the Sylvanas fanboys are too dumb to see that.

  18. #78
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfheart9 View Post
    You've dug in your heels and won't admit it's a possibility, where in I'm saying it could go either way. A deceiver using deceptive means to manipulate makes sense, that's why it's possible. You don't really want discussion though you just want to prove you're right, so I'll leave yah be.
    I'm not denying the possibility, for the mere fact that there's literally nothing you can deny since it's not us that write this story. Heck, you can't even deny something absurd as Jaina being a Dreadlord for that very reason, only say, as you said yourself, "there's nothing backing this up".

    But can we argue about the chances of this being the case? Yes, we can, and I pointed out in plenty of colorful ways why this theory has literally no back up. And it's rich saying I don't want discussion, since discuss is exactly what I did. If anything is you who just handwaved all my points and quited it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cl4nK View Post
    So? It can happen. That's the thing
    As long the writers want it, everything can happen. Do you realize how hollow is the point you're trying to stress? Surely not anything worth to play the devil advocate about.

    Ner'zhul had regular correspondance with his late wife, and yet got tricket by Kil'jaeden, it wasn't like he was griefing and mourning a recent passing. Hell, it passed several moons between KJ first posing as his wife until he finally appeared in front of Ner'zhul to command him into doing his biddings.
    Ner'zhul was tricked because of personal involvement and personal ambition, things Kil'jaeden preyed upon. This is why Ner'zhul fell for it. Now, this means the reasons for Vol'jin to be tricked should be the same? No goddamn, it's the fact that something about the deceived, like personality flaws, should be exploited, because Ner'zhul himself realized that something was wrong but because of those personality flaws he shrugged his doubts off and welcomed utter bullshit as anything reliable.

    About Vol'jin, what I read is basically that instead of personality flaws (something we know for a fact they fucked Ner'zhul big time) what fucked Vol'jin up was lack of focus, an argument that I consider strinkingly weak and I explained why. If you're willing to argue such point, good. Otherwise, if you "agree with me", then there's literally no reason for why you're arguing in the first place.

    Sure, Vol'jin wasn't delirious, but he wasn't 100% focused up either, and it's not above him either to be deceived. I mean, Ner'zhul got directly played out by KJ, posing as his wife, even thou he had regular comunications with her.
    I discussed about Ner'zhul before and again, "lack of focus" looks as nothing but a stretch considered how Vol'jin looked perfectly lucid during his speech.

    But somehow that's unthinkable to happen with Vol'jin? He can't be played for a fool while he literally bleeds out of Fel damage? I mean, Vol'jin and the Darkspear had lost communications with their Loa for a while, until the whole Cataclysm/Siege of Orgrimmar thing. Vol'jin got played before my mortals, but he can't be fooled by KJ?
    Again...it's not a matter of being above deceit, is about the presence or not of circumstances to be deceived. As I pressed on to see which reasons could be found, basically "lack of focus" is all that popped up here. Can I claim with full conviction that this looks like a terrible stretch without being shot with the "YOU'RE NOT ADMITTING IT" gun?

    It's not about saying it'll happen or it happened, but rather to simply admit that it can happen.
    Which is much a point worth discussing as admitting that tomorrow I could die, because it can indeed happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Cl4nK View Post
    Read what I said. Again. And then one more time, just to make sure. I'll even bold it for you.




    Or if you want to, look for my other posts.


    I agree with you FFS. I'm just saying it is a possibility that KJ can in fact pose as a Loa or can in fact manipulate Vol'jin. I don't agree with it. I don't think KJ has anything to do with it. I don't have anything against Sylvanas being the new Warchief.

    Get it now? I'm just argumenting for the sake of having a discussion about the Lore, not about who's right or who's wrong.

    Again, just to make sure.


    I AGREE WITH YOU
    Dont try to sweet talk me by agreeing

    You aren't getting away that easy

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Tromage View Post
    The Scourge and Forsaken where created by the Lich King a tool made by KJ.
    How does this matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

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