Arms Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

I got my spam macro on 3 and my standart filler on 2. To combine those I simply use two fingers simultaniously. Please note that your spamm macro must only be Off GCD abilities, otherwise both keys would override each other. If FR was your main dump I suggest a Bar change macro combined to Battle cry that flips your bar to another with macros that add the off GCDs in

Good idea but what when battle cry is over, I need to make another macro to switch back to the normal bar i guess? or it's possible to add some line to the macro so it goes back from the macro bar to the normal bar after battle cry expires?

[Archimtiros]

I don't get Blizzard. Seems like they are a bunch of sadists..
EVERYTIME I find a spec and think "Yes that is fun, I can enjoy this for a year or two" they nerf it. Instead of addressing the countless issues still present they change working play styles making them less fun.

Why was Deadly calm nerfed? To reduce the Harmstring spam they could have made it free and without doing damage. So it doesn't procc Tactician and isn't even worth using outside of a slow.

Why nerf FOB? Why nerf FR? Why do they take away everything that I find fun? It wouldn't be so bad if they had put something in to compensate.. like Anger Managment also reducing DbtS and Bladestorm. That way they would give the now useless talent more flavor and fixing two major Arms issues (more Defensives, more frequent AOE burst).

Trauma, Opportunity Strikes, In for the Kill are all passiv and all pretty boring. I am a spammer I need to push things fast and often. Deadly calm was perfect.. now not reducing Battle cry for its duration to use it mmore frequently.. urgh..

Weren't you just complaining about using both FoB and FR?

For that matter, in the same post you manage to suggest making Hamstring free and deal no damage, so that it's not used in the rotation, and then lament the fact that you're a spammer and you want to push things fast and often.

Really not sure what you're trying to get across here, because it sounds like you're complaining both for and against yourself at the same time.

[Uriel]

Weren't you just complaining about using both FoB and FR?

For that matter, in the same post you manage to suggest making Hamstring free and deal no damage, so that it's not used in the rotation, and then lament the fact that you're a spammer and you want to push things fast and often.

Really not sure what you're trying to get across here, because it sounds like you're complaining both for and against yourself at the same time.

In the posting you linked I was talking about giving FR an animation you can actually see that you are doing something other than autoattacking. FOB wasn't even mentioned. I don't see what you mean. Maybe you confuse me with someone else?

In the posting you quoted I also never said I use both. I was merely complaining because Warriorsari said that FR would sim badly so I figured one shouldn't use it as the main filler anymore. I was also sad that FOB was even behind slam on ST eventhough you "waste" a talent for it. If FOB is still ok to use cause of the higher Tactitian returns, I don't know.

I don't see your connection between being a Spammer and making harmstring free. Why should I push it if it neither resets tactitian nor gives a slight damage return? I mean yeah I could but why strain my fingers and increase lagging for no reason?

Making harmstring free to prevent it being used to fish for CS makes more sense than changing other core skills like Deadly calm or Battle cry. Like others have stated, Deadly calms doesn't seem to reduce Battle Crys CD anymore. I was thinking this was not the case a few days before.

So yeah excuse me but I fail to understand what you are talking about

Good idea but what when battle cry is over, I need to make another macro to switch back to the normal bar i guess? or it's possible to add some line to the macro so it goes back from the macro bar to the normal bar after battle cry expires?

Right now I use a macro line like this:

/changeactionbar [nomod] 1; [mod] 3

I added it to battle cry so when pushing it my bars will switch to bar #3 which is designed for the deadly calm window. After that you push the Battle Cry button again + a modifier of your choice so it switches back to your default bar. I prefer ALT.

If there is a more elegant way of doing it please let me know.

[nativity]

Quick heads up.

Slam is now king.
FR sims really badly.
FoB is not worth using, for single target.

This is the build that sims the highest, at level 110, don't care about 100 any longer.
Mas>>Vers>Crit>Haste

Have yet to test Legendaries nor have I done Trinket comparisons.

Vers will give us more survivability on top of a flat damage bonus..

[Archimtiros]

I don't see your connection between being a Spammer and making harmstring free. Why should I push it if it neither resets tactitian nor gives a slight damage return? I mean yeah I could but why strain my fingers and increase lagging for no reason?

Making harmstring free to prevent it being used to fish for CS makes more sense than changing other core skills like Deadly calm or Battle cry. Like others have stated, Deadly calms doesn't seem to reduce Battle Crys CD anymore. I was thinking this was not the case a few days before.

So yeah excuse me but I fail to understand what you are talking about

Again, you're arguing against yourself. You want to spam buttons, but you don't like FR, and you don't want to use Hamstring... what exactly would you be spamming?

Also, as has been said, there's been no change with FR or FoB. Slam being buffed, is not the same as FoB being nerfed.

[globezorz]

FoB was meant to be an AoE talent. So why be upset when it's not the best in single target? It's only a wasted talent if you pick it single target which you don't have to. It's not like you permanently pick the talent and can't ever change. Is there cleave or AoE? Pick FoB. Simple. It's also a positive meaning we didn't get nerfed at all really, Slam just got a buff.

[satimy]

Where are these nerfs?

[Archimtiros]

FoB was meant to be an AoE talent. So why be upset when it's not the best in single target? It's only a wasted talent if you pick it single target which you don't have to. It's not like you permanently pick the talent and can't ever change. Is there cleave or AoE? Pick FoB. Simple. It's also a positive meaning we didn't get nerfed at all really, Slam just got a buff.

Not really. While it is a mult-target gain, it's also meant to allow players who like using WW (whoever they might be) as a primary attack to continue to do so, as a carryover from WoD. Its still does this, it's just no longer better than the default.

[Uriel]

Again, you're arguing against yourself. You want to spam buttons, but you don't like FR, and you don't want to use Hamstring... what exactly would you be spamming?

Also, as has been said, there's been no change with FR, FoB, or Deadly Calm. Slam being buffed, is not the same as FoB being nerfed.

I never said I dislike FR, I merely dislike it not having a animation.
I also never stated that I dislike using harmstring. It was merely a suggestion for Blizzard fixing the harmstring spam without touching other skills. I strongly vote that it shouldn't be fixed at all, but as others have said Blizzard is most likely going to, so my suggestion seems to me like the more elegant solution.

There seems to be a change to deadly calm. Like I just and others before have stated, it doesn't reduce the CD during the free rage window anymore. If I recall right, this hasn't been the case before. So I consider that a nerf.

Are you arguing about me using the word "nerf"? Buffing Slam to be better than a talented WW seems like a nerf to that specific talent to me. Well it is only syntax. If there are no more important issues to talk about then be my guest

In a perfect world I'd like to keep both Harmstring and FR as they are right now, so both of them can be used with the Deadly Calm window. However Slam or WW should be the main filler and FR only a bonus when high on rage or during BC, not the other way round. Also FR should get some sort of animation.
DC should still reduce BCs CD during its duration like it has before. I don't see why the later should be changed. Reducing the BC Cooldown during those 5 seconds by ~20 seconds was the spamming I mentioned before. The spamming I like and want to preserve.

tl:dr

Give FR an animation
Let talented WW be on par with 'Avatared' Slam
Preserve the spammy play style During Deadly Calm that reduces BC CD by a significant amount if done right.

[Archimtiros]

Are you arguing about me using the word "nerf"? Buffing Slam to be better than a talented WW seems like a nerf to that specific talent to me. Well it is only syntax. If there are no more important issues to talk about then be my guest

Because that's not what the word means.

• Nerf means it's worse than it was before.
• Buff means it's better than it was before.
• FoB performs just as well as it used to.
• Slam performs better than it used to.

Ergo,

• FoB was not nerfed. It remains the same as it was.
• Slam was buffed. It has changed for the better.

You can call it syntax if you want, although I think you actually meant semantics, but it's an important distinction. If you want to play with FoB, you still can, with the same performance as before. Slam is simply better than it was. That's not a nerf, and calling it such only propagates the spread of misinformation that's rife among players who don't know any better.

[Uriel]

Because that's not what the word means.

• Nerf means it's worse than it was before.
• Buff means it's better than it was before.
• FoB performs just as well as it used to.
• Slam performs better than it used to.

Ergo,

• FoB was not nerfed. It remains the same as it was.
• Slam was buffed. It has changed for the better.

You can call it syntax if you want, although I think you actually meant semantics, but it's an important distinction. If you want to play with FoB, you still can, with the same performance as before. Slam is simply better than it was. That's not a nerf, and calling it such only propagates the spread of misinformation that's rife among players who don't know any better.

Look I don't want to argue with you. But are you really trying to disregard the other more important points I wanted to discuss by lecturing a german guy about english syntax and semantics?

Yes I worded it incorrectly. Call it "devalue" if you like. In my eyes the buff to Slam devalues FOB cause you use a talent point on WW you could spend elsewere, so it breaks even with slam. Now slam is still better even with that talent.
I don't know much about sims I admit but ft the difference between Slam and FOB is significant, I am forced to take Avatar. If the difference is quite minor I didn't say anything

[Archimtiros]

Look I don't want to argue with you. But are you really trying to disregard the other more important points I wanted to discuss by lecturing a german guy about english syntax and semantics?

Well you brought it up, so I guess you can ignore the other points that I made and instead try to play off what I say as "syntax", but when I correct you, it's a lecture?

You said FoB was nerfed, I corrected you, you said "it's just syntax", I corrected you, now you want to say it doesn't really matter? Great argument.

- - - Updated - - -

tl:dr

Give FR an animation
Let talented WW be on par with 'Avatared' Slam
Preserve the spammy play style During Deadly Calm that reduces BC CD by a significant amount if done right.

Let me put a few notions to bed for you right away.

• Focused Rage has an animation, it's just a slight one. It makes a specific noise, causes your character outline to glow to a short time, and even leaves a persistent glowing red trail from your characters hands.
• FoB WW is "on par" with Avatar Slam. It's not as good, but it's within an acceptable margin that you can still play it. In other words - it's not a DPS loss. To expand on the point, if you don't even know the DPS difference between them, I'm not sure what complaint you have with their balance.
• Hamstring gameplay isn't going to be preserved, period. Whether you like it or not, it's very much unintended gameplay, and it's not the first time it's been worked into the rotation only to be subsequently neutered.

[Uriel]

Well you brought it up, so I guess you can ignore the other points that I made

So what Points DID you make then?
The first few posts you were implying I didn't like FR and I didn't like Harmstring. Both comments were both untrue and nowhere close to what I had written.
You were stating things I either never said or never said in the context you wanted it to appear. So disregarding the important things that I said and jumping at my throat because I worded my points slightly wrong is the proper way of having a discussion in your world?

0 Animation and Sound are both too easy to miss. Thats my whole point.
0 OK good to hear. Why did it take you so long to just say it?
0 I also did know and say that before. Thats why I always stated MY opinion

Ok let me put it more blunt to you:

Congratulation: Your last post was the first one with actually useful information. All before were just.. call it a waste of time. Or a desperate try to eradicate all respect I had for you.

[Haram]

Sorry for the redundant question, as I am completely lost when looking @ Fury discussion / Arms discussion / Havoc discussion on a day-to-day basis.

Does FoB become viable in a cleave scenario where we take sweeping strikes?

With the buff to slam, does slam + avatar, even at level 100, becomes more valuable than FoB WW?

Has anyone tested the difference in damage when it comes to taking Dauntless instead of Overpower for a more smoother rage generation?

[Archimtiros]

So what Points DID you make then?
The first few posts you were implying I didn't like FR and I didn't like Harmstring. Both comments were both untrue and nowhere close to what I had written.
You were stating things I either never said or never said in the context you wanted it to appear. So disregarding the important things that I said and jumping at my throat because I worded my points slightly wrong is the proper way of having a discussion in your world?

I quoted exactly what you said, and asked a question for more clarification, seeing as your statements were directly contradicting one another. You're the only one getting pissy over it.

0 Animation and Sound are both too easy to miss. Thats my whole point.

I don't know what you expect. It isn't an attack, or even a major cooldown. You wouldn't expect the character to spin in circles as if they were using Whirlwind for something that isn't an attack, so don't expect something large here. I will say that it's much more obvious than many cooldowns have been in the past, and at least as obvious as something like Avatar. If you don't like it, that's fine, but that certainly isn't the abilities fault.

0 OK good to hear. Why did it take you so long to just say it?

Because it was in response to something you said in the post directly above, literally 5 minutes before my response? Is that too long for you?

0 I also did know and say that before. Thats why I always stated MY opinion

What you stated wasn't an opinion, it was a suggested correction for a problem that you stated you didn't want corrected, which is precisely why this conversation started, it's a contradictory statement. Either way, it doesn't really matter if you like it or not, it's not going to stick around, what you're asking for is essentially what Focused Rage (and Heroic Strike before it) was added to address.

Ok let me put it more blunt to you:

Congratulation: Your last post was the first one with actually useful information. All before were just.. call it a waste of time. Or a desperate try to eradicate all respect I had for you.

Not sure why you're getting angry here. I asked a question regarding two contradictory statements. You started handwaving about semantics (or "syntax") when I offered correction, and now you're complaining that I addressed the main points you laid out. Chill out.

[ericcrazy]

Quick heads up.

Slam is now king.
FR sims really badly.
FoB is not worth using, for single target.

This is the build that sims the highest, at level 110, don't care about 100 any longer.
Mas>>Vers>Crit>Haste

Have yet to test Legendaries nor have I done Trinket comparisons.

is arms stronger or weaker now with the recent changes?

[hollafame]

so we're going to be switching between FoB and avatar a lot?

[globezorz]

is arms stronger or weaker now with the recent changes?

Nothing was nerfed, only buffed. So we're relatively similar but marginally better.

[Onslaught49]

love how OP and avatar are now used, was the exact build i already wanted to run

[Valy]

Quick heads up.

Slam is now king.
FR sims really badly.
FoB is not worth using, for single target.

This is the build that sims the highest, at level 110, don't care about 100 any longer.
Mas>>Vers>Crit>Haste.

Great news , Amen !