I don't get why Elemental is struggling?

[Menubrea]

I think it's more a case of Blizzard being absolutely unwilling to make the pure DPS specs like mage or rogue less mandatory. The minute they proclaimed hybrids having to be competitive on DPS with pure DPS and removed much of their utility, the jig was up. The specs that offered the best combination of DPS and utility would always win.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the circumstances concerning the majority of players and their perception. In my opinion, these perceptions aren't rooted in reality. If you're going Mythic 2 months after clear with higher ilvl, your lack of soaking ability will play far less of a role than it would have when healing and DPS requirements were on a different level. Players just ingest the detritus of upper levels of raiding and unreflectedly apply it to their own.

I am quite capable of forming my own independent thoughts, thank you.

Again it's not about it being a requirement to make progression, but it can help make it easier regardless of what level you're progressing. Resourceful people want to play a resourceful role, it's really quite as simple as that.

[miffy23]

I am quite capable of forming my own independent thoughts, thank you.

Again it's not about it being a requirement to make progression, but it can help make it easier regardless of what level you're progressing. Resourceful people want to play a resourceful role, it's really quite as simple as that.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, again. You seem to be taking quite general comments a bit personally.

[Zyky]

....and we all should keep in mind that balancing will go on.

Ya it only took Blizzard until the middle of HFC to make Elemental a spec on par with some other dps and still far behind the top specs. After several nerfs that made no sense.

[Tyze]

Why bring Elemental ahead of a Mage?
Think about it. I'd actually want to know :/

[Gaucho-]

Appeal to the future fallacy = best fallacy.

I remember in WoD pre-patch DK Tanks were massive beasts in terms of dealing and taking damage. MMO Champions actually complained, stating this would be due to skewed itemlevel come max level DKs would totally be terrible since the relative ilvl will be lower.

Guess which Tank was used to kill the first tier = lowest ilvl Boss of WoD?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuW_whFQaY


Blizzard can and do shuffle numbers around at any time they wish, usually putting out multiple adjustments every day at Expansion launch.

Dont want to play devils advocate here, but in the same time frame they also nerfed Elemental to the ground based on basically nothing. They just told us we were OP and didnt know it.

[Menubrea]

Dont want to play devils advocate here, but in the same time frame they also nerfed Elemental to the ground based on basically nothing. They just told us we were OP and didnt know it.

I'm still upset about that.

[dexx]

Someone explain why Elemental supposedly sucks for raiding?

Comparatively geared and with comparable class skill, my hunter does nearly twice the dps of my shaman

[mob1lejunkie]

^ If it's in beta than I would hope Blizzard buffs Elemental.

[Alvito]

Yep, but this doesn't really matter if you aren't going for world first kills. Just compare your dps to other elemental shamans dps and try do better than they. At least my guild doesn't mind if shamans are bad, they just hope that the player is good, it compensates this struggle a lot.

You could easily argue the raids not going for world first need every drop of damage they can get from dps. The world first and server first crowd do just fine in under geared toons because they know their class, roles and the raid. The folks that don't need every single extra thing they can get. Of course people should play what they want to play. If ele is what you want to play, have fun doing what you enjoy.

[gambit998]

See i am on both sides of this problem: During most expansions i have been in the TOP 3 of my guild when i comes to DPS, now saying that and looking at scaling during WOD i started up there in the top 3....easily. Then as the expansion continued i noticed my damage hit a Plateau.....i kept up in gear and Ring Ect. Nothing was happening with my DPS. Mages/hunters...everthing where suddenly blowing past me i was higher geared and i had the correct stats ect. No matter how hard i tried to keep up it was impossible, our scaling during WOD was in a sorry state. I am hoping that with legion this is not the case and i actually feel more powerful with every content patch. (This was not the case during WOD)

I actually switched to my PVP mage at the end in HFC because i was unable to deal the damage of the other classes in my raid group. MY PVP geared Arcane mage could deal more damage than my Shaman who i had spent most of the expansion working on for PVE gear. (That is sad in my eyes)

Not saying Elemental is bad....just reiterating that OUR scaling needs to be sorted out as that has been the problem in the past expansion. (Holding Thumbs tho)

[16dots]

Yeh, but as I said; if you aren't going for world firsts, then the class/spec doesn't really matter too much. Don't know why you said "This is ridiculous" when you said same thing I said. Only minority of us raid on world top-10 guilds anyway, those guilds will always use the best classes/specs they can, just because they're so competitive.

Your logic is flawed, you seem to think that the competitiveness doesn't exist else where besides those top 10 guilds, yes my guild will probably never hit that top 10 spot, but doesn't mean I don't want to do everything in my power to help my guild achieve a better standing, I personally do not want to be a burden to my guild.

Just because I am not playing basketball at the NBA level, doesn't mean I am going to purposely wearing 1 single flip flop to a pick up basketball game.

[Jotaux]

Yeh, but as I said; if you aren't going for world firsts, then the class/spec doesn't really matter too much. Don't know why you said "This is ridiculous" when you said same thing I said. Only minority of us raid on world top-10 guilds anyway, those guilds will always use the best classes/specs they can, just because they're so competitive.

Because your solution is just to be better than the people you play with in order to be able to raid with them. Why shouldn't someone be able to raid in a guild of similar skill?

[Krazzorx]

Why bring Elemental ahead of a Mage?
Think about it. I'd actually want to know :/

Gearing concerns (being on mail is amazing. And Prot isn't most popular tier token)

And if you're OS heals. (Mage Ofc can't heal)

- - - Updated - - -

I think one thing people fail to realize is for many raiding provides more enjoyment than class choice. Where the enjoyment differences between classes is basically the same.

Eg the answer to the phrase "play what you like most" is: "I like them all equally." Or a slightly more common situation: "I like X and Y equally."

[Zortorai90]

So, what I've seen from this forums is that Resto is dead, Ele is broken, and don't talk about Enhance.
I'm coming to the game seriously for the first time since ICC, is it time to find a new class?
I've loved raiding Resto and Ele in the past. Is it just pessimists that are making it feel like abandon ship, or is there legit concern that the class is going to be replaced by others?

[Mcbenchpress]

So, what I've seen from this forums is that Resto is dead, Ele is broken, and don't talk about Enhance.
I'm coming to the game seriously for the first time since ICC, is it time to find a new class?
I've loved raiding Resto and Ele in the past. Is it just pessimists that are making it feel like abandon ship, or is there legit concern that the class is going to be replaced by others?

If you go to any of the threads around here, its just constant complaining. If you like your Shaman, play your Shaman. If you play well, you'll do well.

[bladeXcrasher]

See i am on both sides of this problem: During most expansions i have been in the TOP 3 of my guild when i comes to DPS, now saying that and looking at scaling during WOD i started up there in the top 3....easily. Then as the expansion continued i noticed my damage hit a Plateau.....i kept up in gear and Ring Ect. Nothing was happening with my DPS. Mages/hunters...everthing where suddenly blowing past me i was higher geared and i had the correct stats ect. No matter how hard i tried to keep up it was impossible, our scaling during WOD was in a sorry state. I am hoping that with legion this is not the case and i actually feel more powerful with every content patch. (This was not the case during WOD)

I actually switched to my PVP mage at the end in HFC because i was unable to deal the damage of the other classes in my raid group. MY PVP geared Arcane mage could deal more damage than my Shaman who i had spent most of the expansion working on for PVE gear. (That is sad in my eyes)

Not saying Elemental is bad....just reiterating that OUR scaling needs to be sorted out as that has been the problem in the past expansion. (Holding Thumbs tho)

I mean, this is no different than warrior in HFC. The ring was a terrible idea the way it was implemented and some classes (mage and hunter) just had literally everything line up with the ring. Couple that with a broken trinket (PoF) and Mages were just ridiculous.

[Talbot983]

So far this thread is so back and forth, I am enhance right now but I don't want to do another xpac as melee, at 110 is ele not worth the time sink (on leveling artifact ect) would i just be better going with enhance? Im by no means cutting edge mythic wise but I do raid heroic ect.

[Krazzorx]

So, what I've seen from this forums is that Resto is dead, Ele is broken, and don't talk about Enhance.
I'm coming to the game seriously for the first time since ICC, is it time to find a new class?
I've loved raiding Resto and Ele in the past. Is it just pessimists that are making it feel like abandon ship, or is there legit concern that the class is going to be replaced by others?

Resto shaman dead? Almost every guild will want a resto shaman because of their throuhput CDs, spirit link totem and now ankh totem for possible cheese strats.

They're probably most resilient of all healers in regards to tuning.

[Jotaux]

So, what I've seen from this forums is that Resto is dead, Ele is broken, and don't talk about Enhance.
I'm coming to the game seriously for the first time since ICC, is it time to find a new class?
I've loved raiding Resto and Ele in the past. Is it just pessimists that are making it feel like abandon ship, or is there legit concern that the class is going to be replaced by others?

Enhance is the funnest its been, and resto is shaping up to be an essential part of any healing comp because of their cds. Elemental is the most broken its ever been.

[Deleted]

Your logic is flawed, you seem to think that the competitiveness doesn't exist else where besides those top 10 guilds, yes my guild will probably never hit that top 10 spot, but doesn't mean I don't want to do everything in my power to help my guild achieve a better standing, I personally do not want to be a burden to my guild.

Just because I am not playing basketball at the NBA level, doesn't mean I am going to purposely wearing 1 single flip flop to a pick up basketball game.

Yes, of course we would like Ele to be top-1 dps, it's just rare thing to see. Why did you pick a hybrid class and play it as dps if you want to be 100% competitive? The thing is that on like top-500 guild, the progress bosses are not hard because of the group doesn't have enough dps, they're hard because players don't counter the mechanics. Of course we have had wipes for enrage/berserk of the encounter, but usually the first kill is already like 20sec or more before boss enrages/berserks. I am not saying the extra dps wouldn't help, of course it helps, but it doesn't matter so much when you have half of your raid playing like retards. I don't just personally care if my class is bad, I try my best, it has been this far enough, yet never I've been replaced. I hope they buff ele because you guys could enjoy it more then, but anyway, I play the class I want (spec depends on what guild wants). Sorry for bad English, and sorry for bad comments.