[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[valkhy]

Enhancement, currently it is pretty fun but the slow Maelstrom generation really dulls the spec for me at times. I enjoyed the high haste, constant spam of heavy hitting, animated spells. Will that be returning in Legion? If not, will it be close to that pace while playing with optimal talents based on the fights or not at all? Not very interested in pooling maelstrom or barely even pressing Lava Lash.

Boulderfist builds are GCD unlocked ( you don't have to press a thing every time ) and you have to build maelstrom to prevent loss due to stormbringer procs that you have MS to spend in. Currently we don't have the artifact who gives a slighty (micro) boost to ms generation.
You can only expect they buff some times WF procs rate but i don't think they will. You will have to max Mastery on your stuff and use carefully artifact spell and wolf which provides good MS generation (even more with BL).

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty much what it is, for as many times as we zero out our maelstrom from a proc we have to build it up again for the next one. It's spinning 3 different tops spec for sure while beating a drum. Maybe a slightly bigger pool maelstrom pool might fix our deadzone.

Bigger Pool will not help cause you don't build enough maelstrom currently to sustain a "button smashing" rotation.

[Oziemaster]

Boulderfist builds are GCD unlocked ( you don't have to press a thing every time ) and you have to build maelstrom to prevent loss due to stormbringer procs that you have MS to spend in. Currently we don't have the artifact who gives a slighty (micro) boost to ms generation.
You can only expect they buff some times WF procs rate but i don't think they will. You will have to max Mastery on your stuff and use carefully artifact spell and wolf which provides good MS generation (even more with BL).

Yeah, the maelstrom generation during lust and wolves is amazing. It feels awesome to constantly be spamming spells. But out of bloodlust it becomes a slow, methodical spec. Conserving your maelstrom for Stormbringer procs and not spending maelstrom on Lava Lash unless you have excess maelstrom. I was watching Finalboss TV and he was doing the 2nd pass for Enhancement saying they will bring back maelstrom generation to Windfury procs. But of course, we don't know how much maelstrom that will be.

So is it safe to say that is how to spec will play out come Legion? Conserve for Stormbringer procs and make seldom use out of Lava Lash?

[iDielord]

I was watching Finalboss TV and he was doing the 2nd pass for Enhancement saying they will bring back maelstrom generation to Windfury procs. But of course, we don't know how much maelstrom that will be.

So is it safe to say that is how to spec will play out come Legion? Conserve for Stormbringer procs and make seldom use out of Lava Lash?

Windfury is already generating maelstorm on live(it wasn't generating MS for like 1 build on beta, when they nerfed enh kinda) , it generates same 5 MS as basic AA. With artifact you'll also have 1min shor burst of additional MS generation with Doom Winds 100% WF proc for 6 secs + some increases to MS generation via +3 additional MS per Rockbiter/Boulderfist and +30% AA speed after each strombringer proc for 3s.

[Darleth]

Yeah, the maelstrom generation during lust and wolves is amazing. It feels awesome to constantly be spamming spells. But out of bloodlust it becomes a slow, methodical spec. Conserving your maelstrom for Stormbringer procs and not spending maelstrom on Lava Lash unless you have excess maelstrom. I was watching Finalboss TV and he was doing the 2nd pass for Enhancement saying they will bring back maelstrom generation to Windfury procs. But of course, we don't know how much maelstrom that will be.

So is it safe to say that is how to spec will play out come Legion? Conserve for Stormbringer procs and make seldom use out of Lava Lash?

That Windfury Ressource generation is already in since 2 or 3 months; its the same amount that maelstrom weapon proccs give (5 / proc). People really need to learn to read patchnotes, no offense.
As long as Lava Lash hits like a wet noodle, yes, that'll be the playstyle. The problem is: people currently only see the "slow" buildup and actually think its a bad thing. Keep in mind: we're missing our artifact which gives a lot of extra ressources and small burst windows, which is more than we always had imo.

[Deleted]

With empowered stormlash we need to pool 60 to 150 maelstrom (massive threshold) for stormbringer proc. If ancestral swiftness gonna be the talent to go, we are locked with numbingly easy rotation. Keep flametongue up, Stormstrike on CD, keep +60 maelstrom, spam boulderfist/rockbiter and dump CL/Lava Lash. I was really trying to find it interesting, but I can't, no matter how much I try. I have learned the proper rotation in one LFR run and I feel I can't get better. And I mained enha for more than 4 years, not like I'm random player who says random stuff just because I can. Expansion is very long, Legion isn't even here and I'm bored. You should have a chance to improve yourself, but after these years I can't find any talent composition to be that hard. Moreover, passive talents are better ... and to be honest, with all this active talents it starts to be really clucky. You don't have enough maelstrom to use all of them when they come out of cooldown, but why would you make it more complicated if you gonna deal less dps even with perfect performance.

[Deleted]

With empowered stormlash we need to pool 60 to 150 maelstrom (massive threshold) for stormbringer proc. If ancestral swiftness gonna be the talent to go, we are locked with numbingly easy rotation. Keep flametongue up, Stormstrike on CD, keep +60 maelstrom, spam boulderfist/rockbiter and dump CL/Lava Lash. I was really trying to find it interesting, but I can't, no matter how much I try. I have learned the proper rotation in one LFR run and I feel I can't get better. And I mained enha for more than 4 years, not like I'm random player who says random stuff just because I can. Expansion is very long, Legion isn't even here and I'm bored. You should have a chance to improve yourself, but after these years I can't find any talent composition to be that hard. Moreover, passive talents are better ... and to be honest, with all this active talents it starts to be really clucky. You don't have enough maelstrom to use all of them when they come out of cooldown, but why would you make it more complicated if you gonna deal less dps even with perfect performance.

I find none of the dps rotations in WoW hard to learn/execute in low pressure/risk situations. It gets hard when you are in a boss fight and multiple abilities are going off which you have to dodge, interrupt etc. The rotations shouldn't be the hard part.

[Darleth]

With empowered stormlash we need to pool 60 to 150 maelstrom (massive threshold) for stormbringer proc. If ancestral swiftness gonna be the talent to go, we are locked with numbingly easy rotation. Keep flametongue up, Stormstrike on CD, keep +60 maelstrom, spam boulderfist/rockbiter and dump CL/Lava Lash. I was really trying to find it interesting, but I can't, no matter how much I try. I have learned the proper rotation in one LFR run and I feel I can't get better. And I mained enha for more than 4 years, not like I'm random player who says random stuff just because I can. Expansion is very long, Legion isn't even here and I'm bored. You should have a chance to improve yourself, but after these years I can't find any talent composition to be that hard. Moreover, passive talents are better ... and to be honest, with all this active talents it starts to be really clucky. You don't have enough maelstrom to use all of them when they come out of cooldown, but why would you make it more complicated if you gonna deal less dps even with perfect performance.

You're wrong though. Currently that might be true, that there isn't a whole lot that you can do to optimize, but with Legion a whole lot changes, especially in terms of when to use wolves and when not, since they're a part of our cleave if needed. Also learning the bossfights and optimize on them, which you basically cant do currently because everything is just SO OLD now, that nobody gives a damn anymore really.

If you're really that bored, thats because you really dont like the new rotation. I personally never found the OLD rotation/priority list to be fun tbh, I was more annoyed if I didn't get lucky with Maelstrom Stacks for LB, at least now I have more control over what to use and when. You basically dont like the new playstyle and thats fine. That passive talents are just better is entirely blizzards fault though, cant blame the design really, if they're just better tuned/more effective in what they do than most active abilities.

Also, there are other classes that are just as easy. There is NO CLASS that has a very "high skillcap" anymore imo, with exact the same 4 or 5 buttons for a rotation.

[Deleted]

Maybe you are right, most of the classes got easier, but maybe bossfights will be good enough to min/max dps potential. Rotation isn't the only thing you need to do to get good dps. However the problem is I don't feel I can improve my game, and that's not only enha's problem. Where is the easy to learn, hard to master stuff?

Also, there are some specs that require quite the skill to improve, both druid specs for example. It's easy if you look at Moonkin but you can pool many resources like Astral Power, New-Half-Full Moon spells, empowerements. Easy if you use everything on cd but you can maximise potential massivly.

Maybe it's just the pre-patch, I don't know, I may end up playing Enhancement, just wanted to hear "There are some things you've missed, skilled play is much more rewarding".

Edit! How heavy melee group compositions look like? Thanks in advance.

[valkhy]

So for the TL DR, in Legion Enh Shaman Maelstrom generation will be slighty better. But don't expect gear will buff you cause WF proc rate via Mastery will be to low even with 80% it's to low and you will have open GCD for Boulderfist rotation. This is the intended design for it.

To spam/smash button don't take it. I don't think they will do anything to it.

[Gunwolf]

You're wrong though. Currently that might be true, that there isn't a whole lot that you can do to optimize, but with Legion a whole lot changes, especially in terms of when to use wolves and when not, since they're a part of our cleave if needed. Also learning the bossfights and optimize on them, which you basically cant do currently because everything is just SO OLD now, that nobody gives a damn anymore really.

If you're really that bored, thats because you really dont like the new rotation. I personally never found the OLD rotation/priority list to be fun tbh, I was more annoyed if I didn't get lucky with Maelstrom Stacks for LB, at least now I have more control over what to use and when. You basically dont like the new playstyle and thats fine. That passive talents are just better is entirely blizzards fault though, cant blame the design really, if they're just better tuned/more effective in what they do than most active abilities.

Also, there are other classes that are just as easy. There is NO CLASS that has a very "high skillcap" anymore imo, with exact the same 4 or 5 buttons for a rotation.

Yea, once you get your artifact things change quite a bit. You will find yourself generating more MS and using stuff like Crash Lightning in single target. I honestly prefer the Boulderfist build since you have less things to micromanage and they all hit harder. You can also pick Hailstorm instead of Anc Swift if you want an extra button to mix it up.... or if you really wanna have a bunch of stuff to press can do stuff like Windsong and Earthen Spike, but that feels like way too much stuff to press and you will rely on alot more small buffs to boost your damage.

I am a little sad that LL does so little damage compared to the burst it used to. In alot of ways we have gone back to like wotlk Enhancement Shaman, where we had multiple sources of smaller damage that added up to our DPS (instead of fewer sources that all did more damage) and our LL back then also did gimp damage. Our SS will hit like a truck, but LL will barely be used, only when we have like 80+MS and to proc the "Doom Vortex" trait ability. It would be cool if we had a ability where using our SS would make a stacking buff that goes up to say 10 stacks, and after 10 stacks our next LL hits for an insane amount like 500% more damage or like 300% more damage plus auto crit. That way it would do some nice bursty damage once a minute or so. This would be great for PVP too as a way to store it for when we want that extra bit of burst.... or even PVE if we want to kill a certain target very quickly.

I am looking forward to maxing out the Artifact weapon. Once we get some L110 gear and with enough haste and mastery we should have a pretty smooth rotation and do good DPS.

[withoutaname]

I'm sorry but no just NO! No way do I ever want that stacking flametongue buff to ever come back.

[Gunwolf]

I'm sorry but no just NO! No way do I ever want that stacking flametongue buff to ever come back.

Haha... I hated Searing Flames too, but my idea is pretty different. It doesn't rely on searing totem or melee swings, it would stack off SS attacks.... and if its like 10 stacks to supercharge your LL then it would only happen like 1-2 times a minute. It won't be required for LL to do its normal damage, plus right now LL is not a heavy hitter like before, its pretty low damage so this would just turn it from low>high once in a while instead of required for LL every 10 sec like it was in the past with searing flames buff. I dunno... just an idea to make LL feel more fun and interesting to use once in a while instead of just a MS dump when you have 80+ MS.

[Darleth]

Haha... I hated Searing Flames too, but my idea is pretty different. It doesn't rely on searing totem or melee swings, it would stack off SS attacks.... and if its like 10 stacks to supercharge your LL then it would only happen like 1-2 times a minute. It won't be required for LL to do its normal damage, plus right now LL is not a heavy hitter like before, its pretty low damage so this would just turn it from low>high once in a while instead of required for LL every 10 sec like it was in the past with searing flames buff. I dunno... just an idea to make LL feel more fun and interesting to use once in a while instead of just a MS dump when you have 80+ MS.

They kind of did something like that with Hot Hands in combination with flametongue. I guess they could give it another effect where as long as the proc didnt occur (is that how you write it? I forgot how to write things...), you gain an X% amount of extra critical hit chance on lava lash. I'm not really sure though if a lot of people would like something like that and if it would fit design-wise for the talent.
Problem is: thats what LL is intended to be, nothing more than a MS dump; otherwise they would've tacked on a CD like it used to have - my problem still is, that it's lower in priority than Crash Lightning for singletarget - it should be better than that.

[Gunwolf]

They kind of did something like that with Hot Hands in combination with flametongue. I guess they could give it another effect where as long as the proc didnt occur (is that how you write it? I forgot how to write things...), you gain an X% amount of extra critical hit chance on lava lash. I'm not really sure though if a lot of people would like something like that and if it would fit design-wise for the talent.
Problem is: thats what LL is intended to be, nothing more than a MS dump; otherwise they would've tacked on a CD like it used to have - my problem still is, that it's lower in priority than Crash Lightning for singletarget - it should be better than that.

Yea, I know Hot Hands is there but it doesn't really do that much more damage. Its an alternative for people who might wanna use LL more often, but it makes the rotation feel too hectic and messy to me (but I think its good for AOE since you can use w/ Crash Lightning for more LL's). Your suggestion could prob work for Hot Hands, not sure how often it procs, but my suggestion was more for a baseline passive just to make LL feel more fun and bursty once in a while and feel like more of a priority then even SS (but alternatively, you could save those 10 stacks and use LL when you want some burst for an add or something).

Yea thats true, LL is basically at the bottom of priority and CrL is an aoe spell that still is higher then LL even for single target. That is cause CrL buffs your SS and Feral Spirits damage plus leaves aoe on the ground if you get the talent.... while LL only procs a "doom vortex" with trait. Anything that is buffing SS will prob get higher priority since that is our heavy hitter. I don't really know what they could change to fix this, so I guess its fine as is.... will just have to get used to LL being weak again, that is a shame.

[Darleth]

Yea thats true, LL is basically at the bottom of priority and CrL is an aoe spell that still is higher then LL even for single target. That is cause CrL buffs your SS and Feral Spirits damage plus leaves aoe on the ground if you get the talent.... while LL only procs a "doom vortex" with trait. Anything that is buffing SS will prob get higher priority since that is our heavy hitter. I don't really know what they could change to fix this, so I guess its fine as is.... will just have to get used to LL being weak again, that is a shame.

Its not solely because of all the buffs via Doomhammer. Its also the fact that Crash Lightning applies both weapon enchants 2 times with one use, generally resulting in much more damage for just 20 maelstrom. Also, Doom Vortex is just so bad, that nobody'll take it early on. Its just not worth it. It looks pretty, but it's moving really slow, resulting in lost damage, and doesn't really deal that much damage at all. Of course its a small dps increase, but other talents are just so much stronger, just looking at Stormflurry and Raging Storms, which would've been better as a golden trait than Doom Vortex... even after the nerfs they're still so much better than Vortex and thats just sad.

The thing is, you cant really nerf CL damagewise, since it needs to deal a good amount of damage in AoE situations - every singletarget ability that we use while it's active just increases our overall AoE. I personally always imagined that LL is a cleave/aoe ability with singeltarget use, considering the old animation always looked like a cleave for me and I've always wondered, why they've never done that, giving it 2 functions. I have no idea how it would've turned out, but I always thought they should've atleast tried something similar to that.

[Gunwolf]

Its not solely because of all the buffs via Doomhammer. Its also the fact that Crash Lightning applies both weapon enchants 2 times with one use, generally resulting in much more damage for just 20 maelstrom. Also, Doom Vortex is just so bad, that nobody'll take it early on. Its just not worth it. It looks pretty, but it's moving really slow, resulting in lost damage, and doesn't really deal that much damage at all. Of course its a small dps increase, but other talents are just so much stronger, just looking at Stormflurry and Raging Storms, which would've been better as a golden trait than Doom Vortex... even after the nerfs they're still so much better than Vortex and thats just sad.

The thing is, you cant really nerf CL damagewise, since it needs to deal a good amount of damage in AoE situations - every singletarget ability that we use while it's active just increases our overall AoE. I personally always imagined that LL is a cleave/aoe ability with singeltarget use, considering the old animation always looked like a cleave for me and I've always wondered, why they've never done that, giving it 2 functions. I have no idea how it would've turned out, but I always thought they should've atleast tried something similar to that.

Yea true, Stormflurry is really good.... SS and CrL just have so much synergy.

As for LL being a cleave/aoe type ability, I agree.... I remember ideas a few years ago to make it an alternative to AOE, make it act like Howling Blast where it does good single target damage, but can also cleave for say 50% dmg to all nearby targets. Before it was turned into a big burst ability, so it made sense to have a seperate ability for AOE like FN.... but now it seems like everything is blended together so I don't see why they couldn't do it now.

[Zirhark]

I think my biggest issue right now is the lvl 90 talent tier. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong), crashing storm is the only one of the 3 to provide a ST dps increase, the other two are only good for AoE. So that means any fight that doesn't have significant AoE parts to it we will be required to have Crashing storms.

Not the biggest complaint to have, but since it's the AoE tier i would have hoped that it would stay as a choice for AoE.

[Throdin]

As far as rotation engagement goes, it must be what about what matters to you most.

Am I a competitive mythic progressions raider furiously competing for a dwindling melee DPS spot? If you are then whether or not having the most boring talents is the only way to make you competitive is the big spikey suppository that has always been present in WoW. Is there an MMO that has nailed that holy trail of balance? Not to my knowledge.

If not then it comes to preference, I will always take Hailstorm over AS because, for me, it makes the spec engaging enough to enjoy. Doom Winds will help alleviate the issues I have with resource generation/stormbringer procs.

If you simply can't bear the thought of your potential max dps being 2% lower then that's something you're going to have to man up and admit to because it was ever thus, to paraphrase George Carlin.

I do agree with the griping in that I wish LL was a better button, fingers crossed for the bracers.

[Pantsless]

Doom Winds will help alleviate the issues I have with resource generation/stormbringer procs.

I see a lot of people put there hopes into the artifact weapon. While it might be of some help, there are a few things to consider:

1. Doom Winds have been nerfed, quite a bit. 60 sec up from 45 and the MW generation of WF was brought down from 15 to 10. So don't expect a lot of MW from DW.
2. Mastery scaling is very low, and since i don't expect to see 60% mastery on our entry lvl gear in Legion, SB chance is going to be lower then it is today.
3. The main problem with Sb is not necessarily that it has a low proc chance, the problem is that it is annoyingly inconsistent. You might be lucky and have it proc back to back when you need it or you might sit there with your trinket procs and nothing to press but BF.

[Jotaux]

I see a lot of people put there hopes into the artifact weapon. While it might be of some help, there are a few things to consider:

1. Doom Winds have been nerfed, quite a bit. 60 sec up from 45 and the MW generation of WF was brought down from 15 to 10. So don't expect a lot of MW from DW.
2. Mastery scaling is very low, and since i don't expect to see 60% mastery on our entry lvl gear in Legion, SB chance is going to be lower then it is today.
3. The main problem with Sb is not necessarily that it has a low proc chance, the problem is that it is annoyingly inconsistent. You might be lucky and have it proc back to back when you need it or you might sit there with your trinket procs and nothing to press but BF.

From playing on beta, Maelstrom generation feels fine now. Doomwinds seems to come off cd just when I need it.