Fire starter?

[Uviux]

So when you want to burst, you ideally want to have flame on, 2 charges of fire blast, and 3 phoenix charges to get the most pyro blasts during combust. I've been using firestarter so I can get my hot streak proc and get into my combustion very fast. But with phoenix flames always doing a crit would it be better at the start of a fight to do double phoenix flame and then hop into your combustion? Or do I want to take firestarter and save those phoenix flames for my combustion to get more pyros out?

[Deleted]

On a regular fight that lasts for say 3 or 4 combustions, why do you think making the 1st combustion-only slightly easier is going to be such a big deal? I understand that it's kinda nerve wrecking to have to decide if you have to scorch or fire blast but it's a little benefit mathematically even when it's about the 1st combustion in isolation.

Even if you always scorch right after the pyroblast/rop (to make it easier to remember/rotate), it's not a big deal.

[Arthael]

Edit: Rethought

[Deleted]

Firestarter is actually the worst of the three (specifically tuned for perhaps PVP or encounters with large # of ST spawns) as for 85% of the fight, its worthless.

Might be also good to level with it, assuming one does mainly single target pulls.

[LordAmbrosia]

Might be also good to level with it, assuming one does mainly single target pulls.

That's almost certainly the primary intention of the talent, especially given that its in the first tier. Makes solo play way easier, especially since while leveling crit levels are low.

btw I haven't had a chance to play or watch any beta, can someone tell me if Phoenix Flames is off the GCD? I'm assuming so, hopefully working like FB where you can cast while casting.

[Arthael]

btw I haven't had a chance to play or watch any beta, can someone tell me if Phoenix Flames is off the GCD? I'm assuming so, hopefully working like FB where you can cast while casting.

Its on-GCD, instant cast; pretty much works like the old Inferno Blast.

[LordAmbrosia]

Its on-GCD, instant cast; pretty much works like the old Inferno Blast.

Damn, well then I can't see how weaving it with Pyro during Combustion is better than using your FB charges first, since you will throw pyros twice as fast with FB.

[Sturmcantor]

It's not. You use all your FB charges first, then go to weaving it with Pyro. You also don't use DB on single target without the legendary.

[Deleted]

Only place for Fire starter is currently in HFC on speed kills - just to make the first and only Combustion reliable. On longer fights it is total shit.

[Orwell7]

How do you make Combustion reliable?

[Torian kel]

How do you make Combustion reliable?

Getting your very first cast, usually hardcasted pyroblast, a crit, so then you can blindly cast RoP/combu right after, instead of waiting in case it doesn't crit, and/or wasting a second to cast a combustion scorch. Not that big a deal, it's just for optimization.

[Deleted]

Getting your very first cast, usually hardcasted pyroblast, a crit

There is no requirement to get a crit on prepull for the rotation to be reliable. This is a very cookie cutter rotation with some minor conditionals. It's almost as easy as rotating with T18 frost.

[Arthael]

There is no requirement to get a crit on prepull for the rotation to be reliable. This is a very cookie cutter rotation with some minor conditionals. It's almost as easy as rotating with T18 frost.

What is the cookie cutter rotation?

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Also do we have a haste goal to upkeep?

[Deleted]

What is the cookie cutter rotation?

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Also do we have a haste goal to upkeep?

Precast Pyro, cast RoP as it flies, cast combustion if it crit, otherwise cast Scorch and press Combustion in the last 0,5 seconds.

[Deleted]

I believe the talent will be quite viable on fights with adds spawning for the most of the duration of the fight. It will allow for good bursting of a new target very good if you play it smart. I can also tell you a good fight where it will be very good tallent - Elisandre in Night Hold. You basically fight her 3 times with constant big adds spawning.
Also people say that by the time we get into raids Fire will have decent amount of crit, but I also think that talent will be good for the initial progress of Nightmare(at least first week or two), because you will have reliable burst on pull.

[Deleted]

There is no requirement to get a crit on prepull for the rotation to be reliable. This is a very cookie cutter rotation with some minor conditionals. It's almost as easy as rotating with T18 frost.

There is when you are using ring on 0 (i mean only on prepatch ofc).

[HTowN]

The talent is extremely good in dgn. It has some niche uses in raid, but not the to-go talent for raiding.

[Deleted]

I believe the talent will be quite viable on fights with adds spawning for the most of the duration of the fight. It will allow for good bursting of a new target very good if you play it smart. I can also tell you a good fight where it will be very good tallent - Elisandre in Night Hold. You basically fight her 3 times with constant big adds spawning.
Also people say that by the time we get into raids Fire will have decent amount of crit, but I also think that talent will be good for the initial progress of Nightmare(at least first week or two), because you will have reliable burst on pull.

You think or you tested it? How many FBs do you think you can get above 85% hp on any boss when everyone has their CDs (after combustion ends)? And most adds have not enough health to make it worth (you may get 2-3 FBs above 85% on big adds like the one in the last phase of Star Augur Etraeus). And Elisande? Maybe, but she hes pretty low health when you are killing her several times.

e.g. on our first mythic Iron Reaver kill boss dropped on 85% in 25s (no ring) so how many FB crits it gives you in that window -10s Combustion and considering your crit chance?

With ~845ilvl i have ~42% crit chance on beta and that is gear you will have before Nightmare opens so even then you will get little value from Firestarter.

You will have reliable burst on pull anyway - problem is prepatch when we are using ring on 0, but if you use combustion after 3-4 FBs in Legion it doesn't matter, you will loose nothing.

[HTowN]

Thing is that we don't spam Fire Ball on big add... 1 or 2 Fire Ball is enough for an instant pyro, which does way more dps than spamming Fire Ball.

Also, we only take the talent if there is constant add spawn anyway. If there is just 1 add phase, it isn't worth it.

[Deleted]

The adds theory is kinda sketchy even if they constantly spawn because others in the raid may drop them below 85% sooner.