The Alliance and The Horde had no chance against the Legion on the Broken Shore

[Mehrunes]

It was my understanding that the horde failed the Alliance because they were supposed to ward off the flying demons to allow the Alliance gunship to get close, and it took off with its passengers at a delay because of the horde's refusal to do so. Thus, the giant demon had time to grab the gunship, thus Varian died. Could it have happened differently? Could one of the huge demon lieutenants have shot it down? Possibly. Probably. But they didn't, instead it was a giant demon monster that grabbed the ship because the horde fled leaving the Alliance soldiers for dead.

As far as the 'we don't have a chance' thing goes. We do have a chance, it's called plot armor.

Your understanding is still wrong, the gunship wasn't called in to take off with anything and was called before the Horde retreated. Also, it cleared the sky on its own just fine when it appeared. And there's no link between the Horde leaving and Gul'dan summoning the Fel Reaver that we know of.

[Deleted]

Your understanding is still wrong, the gunship wasn't called in to take off with anything and was called before the Horde retreated. Also, it cleared the sky on its own just fine when it appeared. And there's no link between the Horde leaving and Gul'dan summoning the Fel Reaver that we know of.

I'm guessing you haven't seen the Skybreaker in action much through the years? It's basically a massive bunker designed to lay heavy fire against ground targets to provide air support. Its' only real anti air defense is a small force of Gnomish Gyrocopters to repel whatever might try to board the Skybreaker. Without anti-air support from the ground, its' basically a sitting duck for being torn down from the skies which is why the Windrunners were essential to clearing the airspace so it could enter the battlefield.

Again, I'm not saying the Horde was cowardly or did anything wrong - Heck, I'd have called retreat the moment I saw the overwhelming numbers and gotten the heck outta there with 1x Warchief still intact and then gone "To hell" with my makeshift allies and their struggle (Okay, maybe given them some word of warning before retreating but whatever).

But to imagine the Skybreaker actualy defending itself against air units (Of which there were A LOT!) is ludacris. Those big bulky cannons firing cannonballs can't trace or track an aerial opponent. Sure, you can blindfire and hope you hit something but those cannonballs gotta come down and chances are blindfiring over a battlefield hits your allies just as much as your enemies which.. well, would not be optimal.

Should the Skybreaker have better anti-air defenses? That'd be awesome but until then, it is what it is..

[Highwhale]

To be honest Horde was weak at Broken Shore. When alliance was cool and high. We hold our line and was planning to push forward when Horde failed their mission EVEN before ship reinforcements arrived from the back. Next time we wouldn't carry you.

PS Say what you want but you can't deny - Horde flees using Alliance as distraction. Like Garrosh said once - Honor... no matter how dire is fight never forget about it.

[ZenX]

To be honest Horde was weak at Broken Shore. When alliance was cool and high. We hold our line and was planning to push forward when Horde failed their mission EVEN before ship reinforcements arrived from the back. Next time we wouldn't carry you.

PS Say what you want but you can't deny - Horde flees using Alliance as distraction. Like Garrosh said once - Honor... no matter how dire is fight never forget about it.

Actually, those were originally Saurfang's words, not Garrosh's.

[Mehrunes]

I'm guessing you haven't seen the Skybreaker in action much through the years? It's basically a massive bunker designed to lay heavy fire against ground targets to provide air support. Its' only real anti air defense is a small force of Gnomish Gyrocopters to repel whatever might try to board the Skybreaker. Without anti-air support from the ground, its' basically a sitting duck for being torn down from the skies which is why the Windrunners were essential to clearing the airspace so it could enter the battlefield.

And yet, the Alliance cinematic was an example of Skybreaker in action. Clearing the skies on its own.

To be honest Horde was weak at Broken Shore. When alliance was cool and high. We hold our line and was planning to push forward when Horde failed their mission EVEN before ship reinforcements arrived from the back. Next time we wouldn't carry you.

Except Legion's ships bombarding the Horde position is what triggers the cinematic.

[Deleted]

The thing is, it didn't feel like we were serious.
Sure we sent a lot of foot soldiers and a few of our leaders.

Why was Jaina alone without the other archmages of the Kirin Tor, particularly Khadgar? Where were the blood elves and their millenia of arcane traditions? Why by all that is holy was Velen and the Draenei not there to face off gainst the Legion? What happened to Tyrande, Malfurion and the night elven Highborne? Why not prep a mana bomb and just drop it on Gul'dan's wrinkly old ass?

Because it was a trap set by "Mathias Shaw".

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To be honest Horde was weak at Broken Shore. When alliance was cool and high. We hold our line and was planning to push forward when Horde failed their mission EVEN before ship reinforcements arrived from the back. Next time we wouldn't carry you.

The Horde was being carpet bombed by at least three Legions, that's why.

[Raetary]

the broken shore was a deathtrap to finish off both factions.

[Combatbutler]

I know about the rogue campaign. It still makes little sense. The SI:7 has more pull over what Varian will deploy over the word of Archmage Khadgar?

Yes, that is why they exist, their whole purpose is to get detailed info, so that the alliance can react properly and accordingly, which is why with a dreadlord in charge, the Alliance was steering towards disaster as a whole. Khadgar is but one man after all.

[Deleted]

I know about the rogue campaign. It still makes little sense. The SI:7 has more pull over what Varian will deploy over the word of Archmage Khadgar?

Uh, yes? It's what the SI:7 was created for, recon and report. They reconned and "reported".

The fact that they sent the SI:7 means they took Khadgar's words.

[Deleted]

They just wanted to give people an "oh shit" moment. They are watching too much Game of Thrones.

[Foreboding]

Isn't Khadgar somewhat responsible for the debacle that is the Broken Shore? He was the one who implied that the Legion needed to be confronted at the Broken Shore. (Let's also not forget he was the one who gave us the go-ahead to free Gul'dan when he was a prisoner of the Iron Horde.)

Khadgar's actions are in line with somebody aiding the Burning Legion...

[Combatbutler]

They just wanted to give people an "oh shit" moment. They are watching too much Game of Thrones.

Such things existed long before games of thrones, especially in blizzard games, like diablo, starcraft or warcraft.

[Deleted]

Isn't Khadgar somewhat responsible for the debacle that is the Broken Shore? He was the one who implied that the Legion needed to be confronted at the Broken Shore. (Let's also not forget he was the one who gave us the go-ahead to free Gul'dan when he was a prisoner of the Iron Horde.)

Khadgar's actions are in line with somebody aiding the Burning Legion...

No, because the factions did acted on the SI:7 reports.

The only mistake here was sending almost all the leadership into the battle and not to retreat the moment they understood something was very wrong.

[Combatbutler]

Isn't Khadgar somewhat responsible for the debacle that is the Broken Shore? He was the one who implied that the Legion needed to be confronted at the Broken Shore. (Let's also not forget he was the one who gave us the go-ahead to free Gul'dan when he was a prisoner of the Iron Horde.)

Khadgar's actions are in line with somebody aiding the Burning Legion...

He was getting the demon hunters, while the counter attack was on the way, he merely warned of the impending invasion, since he and Maiev had failed to stop gul'dan from opening the portal in the tomb. He is one of the least likely character to cooperate with the legion.

[Matt0193]

Isn't Khadgar somewhat responsible for the debacle that is the Broken Shore? He was the one who implied that the Legion needed to be confronted at the Broken Shore. (Let's also not forget he was the one who gave us the go-ahead to free Gul'dan when he was a prisoner of the Iron Horde.)

Khadgar's actions are in line with somebody aiding the Burning Legion...

To be fair, the PC just stands there and lets him go. That's the problem with Lawful Good characters, anyone with any sense would've killed him in stasis because he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices, even in the AU. It would've been different if you needed the Shadow Council's help to destroy the Portal, that at least somewhat justifies letting him live.

[Venziir]

Yet its more fun that players CANT see the other cinematics, so the alliance/horde conflict is even real for the players.
Back in vanilla you could not have 2 factions on a server. And tbh I liked that idea so your alliance or horde. Not both

Yes you could, that restriction was only for PvP servers.

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The thing is, it didn't feel like we were serious.
Sure we sent a lot of foot soldiers and a few of our leaders.

Why was Jaina alone without the other archmages of the Kirin Tor, particularly Khadgar? Where were the blood elves and their millenia of arcane traditions? Why by all that is holy was Velen and the Draenei not there to face off gainst the Legion? What happened to Tyrande, Malfurion and the night elven Highborne? Why not prep a mana bomb and just drop it on Gul'dan's wrinkly old ass?

Plenty of draenei and blood elf soldiers present at the battle though. No Night Elves, Dwarves or Pandaren whatsoever though, aside from the troops helping you prepare before you leave SW/OG.

[Lupinemancer]

Are people still talking about this?
Even after so many people, myself included, was trolling and joking about various things, I can't believe that people still havn't moved on.

[Venziir]

Isn't Khadgar somewhat responsible for the debacle that is the Broken Shore? He was the one who implied that the Legion needed to be confronted at the Broken Shore. (Let's also not forget he was the one who gave us the go-ahead to free Gul'dan when he was a prisoner of the Iron Horde.)

Khadgar's actions are in line with somebody aiding the Burning Legion...

We needed to release him at that point to even survive though.

[Frozenbeef]

Doesn't the alliance have archers?

[Venziir]

How about instead of releasing him, we slit his throat instead and then burned him to ashes?

I'm guessing you didn't notice that we were A) busy fighting off about 10.000 orcs and B) he teleported away more or less instantly.

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Doesn't the alliance have archers?

Nope - only brought a mech suit and two gunships... Apparently.