So right now in beta how is Arcane compared to Fire?

[Krazzorx]

It's just for many, spec mechanical differences and their fun differences don't come close to matching up with, even with zero pressure from others, the noticeable effect of doing a lot less dps that can be fixed with a single button press. And that button is "change spec".

It's a "temptation" very few can resist.

(Now artifacts change that a bit but mindset remains the same and why people put best spec above "enjoyment")

[stomination]

So your argument to my points that not ALL guilds enforce playing the numerically best spec is to tell me to shut up? Or exaggerate my point with that childish pic.

Real mature guys, and way to argue a point. :/

I think the point is that many people are tired of hearing people tell them this in a thread that is discussing the complete opposite.

Its obvious that most of the ppl in this thread cares about thier dps between specs regardless of what level of progression they are.

SO the mature thing to do is to not disrupt the thread with that statement you made and just move on to a different thread.

[Deleted]

After the flame patch nerf it looks to me that arcane explosion and resonance outperforms fire on stuff like Spellblade Aluriel's arcane phase adds in Nighthold, or Krosus adds and a few other fights?

Did you go Living Bomb?

[Deleted]

Who knows how it'll work out and how close they'll get to that but at least their goals seem correct.

Yeah, its like listening to politicians on elections. And we all know how that ends. 5% of each other . And I'm not talking only about mages, but they also said all of the specs will be 5-10% of each other. I just fail to see how they gonna manage that, now when they have more abilities more rotation changing talents, perks from artifact weapon, items like trinkets and tier sets. If they couldn't keep balance in WoD and previous expansion when classes had fewer talents, fewer abilities, and fewer trinkets, how they gonna do it now? By changing numbers on artifact weapon perks?

[willemh]

Sometimes I really wish elitistjerks was still a thing, you could actually enter the mage forum there and get information. These days you come back after a year of absense, you open topics like this one to get an idea about where the specs stand, and all you get is 3 pages of completely pointless and off-topic discussion without ANY real numbers, experiences or information.

[Delath]

Sometimes I really wish elitistjerks was still a thing, you could actually enter the mage forum there and get information. These days you come back after a year of absense, you open topics like this one to get an idea about where the specs stand, and all you get is 3 pages of completely pointless and off-topic discussion without ANY real numbers, experiences or information.

https://www.altered-time.com/forum/

[Vynestra]

It's a giant piece of arcane poop.

[trm90]

Altered Time is really inactive for the non-FotM specs. There simply isn't as much discussion. The Fire forum isn't even active, but is the only forum with an actual pre-patch guide (I'm not dissing AT here! Just pointing out it's been really quiet).

Even on Discord most discussion revolves around optimal Fire play. It's not surprising in the slightest, and when you main a pure DPS class you want to feel useful for the raid - ergo you choose the spec which puts out the best numbers. I'm sure a lot of people got tired of Arcane for at least half a year as well. But the only Arcane guide floating around is an IV guide by someone who doesn't actually main a mage, and there isn't a definitive Arcane legion guide anywhere. My mage is going to be an Arcane main and I still don't even know what the best Artifact tree leveling path is.

It's kind of fun venturing into uncharted territory and figuring things out with limited help, but ultimately a guide would help me jump straight into higher end PvE content and feel confident about my rotation, stats priorities, and artifact talents.

[LaplaceNoMa]

So your argument to my points that not ALL guilds enforce playing the numerically best spec is to tell me to shut up? Or exaggerate my point with that childish pic.

Real mature guys, and way to argue a point. :/

Look, we have people come here from time to time, asking the question: 'which spec performs better?'
What impossible logical twist made you think that a person seeking that kind of information is the type of player who doesn't give a shit about actually doing well while playing a game and not just pressing random buttons to pass time? Nobody tells you that you aren't allowed to do that; you can pretty much take a tennis racket without strings in it and then swing it at balls, enjoying them passing through your 'racket'. But seriously, when someone tries to understand which type of rackets are more fitting for him, he definitely isn't looking for your type of having fun.

[nickseng]

Look, we have people come here from time to time, asking the question: 'which spec performs better?'
What impossible logical twist made you think that a person seeking that kind of information is the type of player who doesn't give a shit about actually doing well while playing a game and not just pressing random buttons to pass time? Nobody tells you that you aren't allowed to do that; you can pretty much take a tennis racket without strings in it and then swing it at balls, enjoying them passing through your 'racket'. But seriously, when someone tries to understand which type of rackets are more fitting for him, he definitely isn't looking for your type of having fun.

And if you bother reading my post, you'd realize i wasn't arguing that. The thread settled earlier on that fire was numerically better. So if that was the purpose of the thread, that was answered long long ago.

What my post argued, if you guys bothered to read it, was some people saying that NO guild would accept you if you played anything other than the best spec.

Whatever. If you guys aren't actually aren't even reading what I'm saying, then there's no point continuing.

[Krazzorx]

Arcane Mage doesn't get to use this UI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-zeeGrS5-z4 (not mine) so it's instantly and eternally worse due to cool factor.

[Lioo]

Look, we have people come here from time to time, asking the question: 'which spec performs better?'
What impossible logical twist made you think that a person seeking that kind of information is the type of player who doesn't give a shit about actually doing well while playing a game and not just pressing random buttons to pass time? Nobody tells you that you aren't allowed to do that; you can pretty much take a tennis racket without strings in it and then swing it at balls, enjoying them passing through your 'racket'. But seriously, when someone tries to understand which type of rackets are more fitting for him, he definitely isn't looking for your type of having fun.

So to do well, you need the better spec? Ok, i see, you definetly know how to play this game.

[Gaaz]

Though I really enjoyed reading through some of the comments, facepalming myself several times in the process, these personal comments are quickly getting old.
Fire is better at the moment overall. Arcane is more of a niche spec.
However, due to fire mechanics, I would not be surprised if blizz changed balance between them to favor arcane as a single target spec, while fire would be competitive in cleave and AoE scenarios in the latter stages of the expansion.
Right now, in terms of not only raw numbers but versatility, Fire >= Arcane >>> Frost

[blackblade]

So your argument to my points that not ALL guilds enforce playing the numerically best spec is to tell me to shut up? Or exaggerate my point with that childish pic.

Real mature guys, and way to argue a point. :/

I think the point is that OP cares enough to post about it, and you're providing a continuous stream of non answers.

It's 100% subjective weather or not a spec is "fun"; it's also entirely possible that player derives "fun" from doing the best he can with the tools he has available, and would not have fun playing the spec they want while under-performing.

OP asked if arcane was close or inferior to fire at 110. not if arcane is more fun than fire, and not if he should play X despite Y being superior in a raid setting.

[a0kalittlema0n]

There is no enormous difference atm between a slow burn and a quick burn, Bink is working to see if the slow burn can eek out more DPS or not. Personally I think this would be huge to be able to take that 1 minute of CD downtime to focus out damage where we really want it (add spawns, DPS checks, pushing phases etc) but that remains to be seen. That would be the major advantage arcane has over fire, fire needs to bank charges for combustion burst where we can only spend about 50% mana within a burn phase unless quickening stacks are super high and we're going to burn, eco, then burn again. So the other 50% mana usage could be saved/spent where dictated, making arcane "better" mechanically IMO.

[a0kalittlema0n]

Long story short, sims atm say this:

Arcane ST is around 240k, 3 target cleave is 440k~ with 200k to main target, Kilt damage ST is 256k, not sure on kilt damage with AoE
Fire ST is around 280k, 3 target cleave is 400k not sure about main target.

As far as I know that's where we stand atm.

[Xires]

Little different now due to artifact power. If you commit to a spec and start getting those late traits even if your spec is 10% behind you'll still be losing damage trying to switch to another spec and level its end traits.

Blizzard will be more pressured to make balance changes.

Nope. They have catch-up mechanics for your artifacts incase you wanna level up another spec or alt.

[Deleted]

Unless you are a cutting edge mythic raider, there is completely no reason not to play a spec you like, in my openion.

Agree. You should play the spec you like the most. For me stuff always works out at some point even at times where arcane and frost "was better than fire" and I played fire mage, I always found a way to do more dps than most of them

[Dracovian]

Agree. You should play the spec you like the most. For me stuff always works out at some point even at times where arcane and frost "was better than fire" and I played fire mage, I always found a way to do more dps than most of them

That argument is a nonfactor. The only times you beat Arcane or Frost when they were proven to be the better specs just meant you were a better player than the ones in your group with the superior specs. This applies to any class. There is always a general consensus on which specs are performing better in a certain patch or a particular fight. Most casual players don't bother to learn their priorities or make any research so they just wing it and get beaten by inferior specs.

When specs are to be compared the specs must be played by players of equal skill level, not anecdotal reference people love throwing around these forums about how they crushed everyone with a terrible spec when in reality they were in a LFR with a bunch of people messing around and the person telling the anecdote was the one with his eyes fixed on Skada/Recount.

I do agree that players who play for the the fun of role-playing their class of choice, players who just like to progress through the content/story, or people who just really love the theme of a class you should play that regardless of performance. But there is a group of players who play for the competition, to push themselves against other like-minded players and do care about their class/spec potential ceiling. Those are the players who would visit a thread like this one so these comments about "play what you like" are out of place in a thread like this because otherwise they would not bother to even click it.

[kheath812]

Agree. You should play the spec you like the most. For me stuff always works out at some point even at times where arcane and frost "was better than fire" and I played fire mage, I always found a way to do more dps than most of them

and you wouldve done even more damage playing the spec that does more damage. shocking, i know.