[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Carthh]

If you use EE at the start of a fight you loose out on the energy it provides, yeah it gives you full chi but you also lost 4 chi. With PS open build/spend wise, you TP-> FoF-> TP-> SoTW-> TP->RSK->TP->BoK I did leave out Chi Wave/WDP/ToD on purpose to make it easier to read. If EE instead gave us either Full Chi and +energy Regen or 100 Energy +bonus Chi gen it would be a better talent because of reduced waste. Also SCK is a damage loss vs 1 its 100% AP x 4 hits with 3 Chi cost while BoK is 385%AP for 1 Chi. It also looses value if kept off CD and held to a time when it can be used.

Regarding ScK vs BoK you forgot to add in the 50% damage bonus ScK receives from damaging your target, and BoK only has 1 chance to crit with ScK having multiples on 1 cast each. There's also a chance you would interrupt the channel for only 3 ticks instead of 4, but 3 ticks would still be higher damage not accounting chi since I was only wondering if it was better after EE. Regardless, I only asked about in relation to EE when you were maxed chi and energy wouldn't ScK be a better option than BoK because either way you waste 1 chi following both with a TP.

Also in your opener I think leading with FoF before SotW is also a mistake. While FoF provides higher damage per chi than SotW (not sure when adding in TtP and CW how much higher FoF is) but doing 2 TP's and a full channel FoF roughly 3.3s~ depending on haste then finally SotW, adds significant downtime where SotW is sitting there not on cooldown, when simply swapping the two begins SotW's cd much sooner, and FoF cd begins at the start of it's cast. This gets both abilities on cooldown quicker and gives FoF a tiny bit more damage from TtP and 2 more Hit Combo stacks which I believe also buffs CW but I'm not positive on this one. But your rotation is assuming no Gale Burst which everyone will have pretty quickly so it's probably better to discuss it with all abilities.

Currently the opener I'm going with to take advantage of GB is EE>Chi Wave>FsK>SeF>ToD>SotW>FoF>TP>RSK>WDP. If you do it without wasting any time you can barely squeeze in the last tick of WDP with an ok amount of haste. I felt this opener took the most advantage of GB, the legendary bracers for SeF (I know the FoF legends are better), and putting your abilities on cooldown quickly so they can start recharging. I haven't done any testing for the optimal opener so I could be completely off and would love to hear what other people are doing.

[Sesethi]

How are WW monks faring Single Target and AoE in the raid setups? My guild kinda wants me as a Havoc DH but since monks are way too fun to play and simulations variate from whoever post them I want to know the viability of WW compared to the other classes. I don't mind rerolling to DH but if WWs are doing decently I see no reason for going DH

[Babylonius]

How are WW monks faring Single Target and AoE in the raid setups? My guild kinda wants me as a Havoc DH but since monks are way too fun to play and simulations variate from whoever post them I want to know the viability of WW compared to the other classes. I don't mind rerolling to DH but if WWs are doing decently I see no reason for going DH

Windwalkers are doing just fine, there's no reason to switch to DH if you prefer playing WW, unless you're at the very very top end of raid guilds, and even then there's no reason a WW can't perform just fine.

[Sesethi]

that's why I always loved ya <3

[Lucrece]

Havoc DH's perform better single target and have stronger aoe burst if you want to take burst to an extreme. Extend that burst window to more than 4-5 seconds and WW easily tops.

The thing you have to decide is:

Do you want the Chi Torpedo playstyle? Because DH's are forced to that on steroids. You have to use a dash every 10 seconds to prevent from capping, and a back-flip every 15 seconds to then dash back in, and a large part of your aoe is those fel rush dashes through mobs, so you have to make sure to dash but not land far enough away to be losing autoattacks.

Or, you have to choose to deal with tab targeting SCK and SEF management on WW. Both classes are close enough that it's your pick on what poison you can live with.

[Juliansfist]

Class rivalry wants me to see demon hunters dash into bad things.

Demon huntards

[Xiaojin]

Class rivalry wants me to see demon hunters dash into bad things.

Demon huntards

Already seen plenty of that while doing Mythic dungeons this week.

Regarding Fel Rush on DHs: I don't know what their rotation is like at 110, but if Fel Rush is still kept on CD/prevented from capping, I wonder how mobile they truly are in a raid (without losing too much damage). Even when Chi Torpedo was a thing, I had other talent options that were competitive enough to allow me to save my roll charges for actual movement instead of using them for damage. I guess the damage loss (if there is any) won't be too high for DHs who need to save Fel Rush for movement. But I still think it lessens the value of FR as a movement ability.

[Juliansfist]

I think it's pretty rare that a raid mechanic demanded movement boosts because mechanics are designed around players not having them. Movement boosts enable cheering or making certain mechanics much easier but never an absolute necessity.

So really it depends on this is the demon huntard's planning/player ability where being better in those categories meaning demon huntards shouldn't need to reserve those abilities.

[Lucrece]

Already seen plenty of that while doing Mythic dungeons this week.

Regarding Fel Rush on DHs: I don't know what their rotation is like at 110, but if Fel Rush is still kept on CD/prevented from capping, I wonder how mobile they truly are in a raid (without losing too much damage). Even when Chi Torpedo was a thing, I had other talent options that were competitive enough to allow me to save my roll charges for actual movement instead of using them for damage. I guess the damage loss (if there is any) won't be too high for DHs who need to save Fel Rush for movement. But I still think it lessens the value of FR as a movement ability.

Bear in mind demonhunter mastery essentially gives them movement speed. At ilv 702 on my demonhunter on live that translates to 22% additional movement speed baked in, and that will only get higher.

And they do have one fel rush charge left that recharges at twice the speed that roll does and has lesser travel time.

Another thing in the advantage of DH's is they have no dead traits like Death Art or Light on Your Feet.

While we have a useless 9% dodge, they have a 12% magic damage reduction from their artifact trait, which translates to 12% reduced raid damage.

Their Blur (1 min cd 35% damage reduction+ 50% dodge for 10 sec) gives them 2 charges of fel rush as well, so they pop a survival cooldown and are back to two charges of mobility.

WW has two useless traits, DH has none.

[Weriik]

Is SEF still not fixed with the mastery bug? This seems like a huge issue and I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed yet.

[Babylonius]

Is SEF still not fixed with the mastery bug? This seems like a huge issue and I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed yet.

It's been fixed for almost two weeks.

[Weriik]

It's been fixed for almost two weeks.

Do you have a link to the hotfix notes? I don't want to believe I missed it since I've been checking for it everytime they are posted.

[Lucrece]

Do you have a link to the hotfix notes? I don't want to believe I missed it since I've been checking for it everytime they are posted.

Check the beta forum update notes, MMO Champion hasn't been steadily updating daily hotfixes. Some hotfixes are even stealth ones where community managers don't even announce it till later, like when vengeance demonhunters lost the Darkness raid cooldown two weeks before it was confirmed in a hotfix build just earlier this week.

[Sesethi]

what is actually getting more people wanting DH in the raid is the utility they're giving at the moment, Darkness. We pretty much now have what? 10% move speed for everyone?

[Babylonius]

Do you have a link to the hotfix notes? I don't want to believe I missed it since I've been checking for it everytime they are posted.

There weren't any notes about it, just much rejoicing in the Monk Discord. It was fixed on August 3rd because I made a post about it: http://www.walkingthewind.com/2016/0...ity-are-fixed/

[Juliansfist]

Monks have raid utility it's called being cool

[Lucrece]

what is actually getting more people wanting DH in the raid is the utility they're giving at the moment, Darkness. We pretty much now have what? 10% move speed for everyone?

TBH Darkness is a pretty moderate raid cooldown, nothing to write home about.

The real raid utility comes from Netherwalk, basically a 1.5 sec cd version of pally bubble so you can cheese raid mechanics for your group with ease as if having the best mobility in the game wasn't enough.

Then again, rogues get Cloak of Shadows baseline and a choice of 3 DPS specs in case any of theirs falls out of favor. DH's are only relevant because of their outlier DPS output, otherwise they'd be sitting with other hybrids in the same precarious position of a class with a single DPS spec.

[Deleted]

The real raid utility comes from Netherwalk, basically a 1.5 sec cd version of pally bubble so you can cheese raid mechanics for your group with ease as if having the best mobility in the game wasn't enough.

Don't worry, we have 2 abilities just like that, it's called Diffuse Magic and Zen Meditation, sweet 90% resistance, let's you cheese mechanic just as well.
Oh wait..

[Lucrece]

Don't worry, we have 2 abilities just like that, it's called Diffuse Magic and Zen Meditation, sweet 90% resistance, let's you cheese mechanic just as well.
Oh wait..

At least the plundering wasn't so blatant as it was with feral druids for assassination rogues. Assassination rogues are a flat out superior version of a feral druid. The better bleed class, with the better cleave (both are not great at aoe), and the rogue of course has his rogue cd's for raid cheese.

[infinitemeridian]

It really is disappointing that we provide no utility in raids. I've been looking for a new guild for a few days now and none of them are looking for WW monks (this is at Heroic level too).