[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Hey guys during the invasions I noticed some "issues" with summoning Dreadstalkers & Implosion.

Is it intended when you summon Dreadstalkers that they don't leap towards the enemy if you're on a higher ground like a roof? Implosion also had some "invalid target" issues at times although Hand of Gul'dan worked fine as its a ranged projectile. The summoned Dreadstalkers just stood still next to me instead of leaping resulting in wasting shards.

[Fallensaint]

Hey guys during the invasions I noticed some "issues" with summoning Dreadstalkers & Implosion.

Is it intended when you summon Dreadstalkers that they don't leap towards the enemy if you're on a higher ground like a roof? Implosion also had some "invalid target" issues at times although Hand of Gul'dan worked fine as its a ranged projectile. The summoned Dreadstalkers just stood still next to me instead of leaping resulting in wasting shards.

I'm guessing that there's some sort of Heroic Leap-style pathing issues responsible for this, where if there's "no path available" then they can't jump to the target.

[rhorle]

From the hotfixes:
Pets When set to assist, players’ pets will now attack all targets that have been damaged by the player, rather than only the player’s current target.

This should help with some of the wonkiness of pets.

[Toastiekins]

From the hotfixes:
Pets When set to assist, players’ pets will now attack all targets that have been damaged by the player, rather than only the player’s current target.

This should help with some of the wonkiness of pets.

Does it effect the guardian pets though? They don't have a bar to assign assist with.

[Deleted]

From the hotfixes:
Pets When set to assist, players’ pets will now attack all targets that have been damaged by the player, rather than only the player’s current target.

This should help with some of the wonkiness of pets.

Isn;t that just a reversion? I was actually suprised when I tested Demo that the pets didn't do that. I honestly couldn;t understand why the dumbass pets were runnign back to stand next to me to do nothing after I;d aoe'd a trashpack

I dunno why anyone thought that change would be in any way good or useful. I just meant more pet micromanagement

- - - Updated - - -

Does it effect the guardian pets though? They don't have a bar to assign assist with.

I doubt it. Guardian pets are by definition not controlled, you have to think of them as a DOT, once you set them on a target they stay with it, unless it dies.

[Deleted]

Does it effect the guardian pets though? They don't have a bar to assign assist with.

Pretty sure Guardians are always on assist, even though you can't see it.

[Deleted]

I'm guessing that there's some sort of Heroic Leap-style pathing issues responsible for this, where if there's "no path available" then they can't jump to the target.

Ah well thats a big sigh, so in cases of BG or world pvp where the ranged opponent stands on a higher ground Dreadstalkers are basically useless. Its a good thing implosion spam is our primary way to burst in pvp then.

[Deleted]

Ok so my question would be how viable is this spec at lvl 110 wirh full artifacts i mean how viable is this spec compared to the others lock spec's in raid environment ?

[Deleted]

"viable" yes, desirable or competetive no.

Demonology has mediocre dps which falls to pieces in real raid environments because it is so lacking in tools and crippled by wonky pets.

Destruction does everything demo can't, and outshines it at everything

When it goe slive in it;s current state, as I am sure it will, no one will want to play demo except for the novelty aspect at the casual level.

It will probably mean in three months time when Blizzard see hardly anyone playing it, it will be either absurdly buffed or...the other two specs will eb nerfed to the ground to make demo look better.

Too late, since everyone will have levelled their artifact and many won;t want the drudgery of doing that over again. As anyone who had a dual-role character and wanted the dps/tank/healing legendary ring will attest, item grinds are a bore fest the second time around.

The sad thing is that demo needs only some tweaks to be fine. For example, making Demonic Empowerment instant would help a hell of a lot and so would buffing Demonwrath's damage, which atm is pathetic beyond words - just allowing the damage aura to stack so that a target can get hit five times if there are five demons would fix that; much better aoe and some much needed mobility too. I guess they don;t because of the shard generation, but that could be fixed.

[Deleted]

So at lvl 110 with full artifact destruction just destroys the other 2 specs in viability, even with it's rng dependance( at least i think it has some) is nice....thank you by the way for the answer

[striderZA]

"viable" yes, desirable or competetive no.

Competitive yes, desirable is subjective.

[Deleted]

"viable" yes, desirable or competetive no.

Demonology has mediocre dps which falls to pieces in real raid environments because it is so lacking in tools and crippled by wonky pets.

Destruction does everything demo can't, and outshines it at everything

When it goe slive in it;s current state, as I am sure it will, no one will want to play demo except for the novelty aspect at the casual level.

It will probably mean in three months time when Blizzard see hardly anyone playing it, it will be either absurdly buffed or...the other two specs will eb nerfed to the ground to make demo look better.

Too late, since everyone will have levelled their artifact and many won;t want the drudgery of doing that over again. As anyone who had a dual-role character and wanted the dps/tank/healing legendary ring will attest, item grinds are a bore fest the second time around.

The sad thing is that demo needs only some tweaks to be fine. For example, making Demonic Empowerment instant would help a hell of a lot and so would buffing Demonwrath's damage, which atm is pathetic beyond words - just allowing the damage aura to stack so that a target can get hit five times if there are five demons would fix that; much better aoe and some much needed mobility too. I guess they don;t because of the shard generation, but that could be fixed.

demo is best single target (by a huge margin), at least best for nythendra and ursoc. dont communicate missinformation based on rumors

[Orwell7]

Can you please link the logs or are you just communicating missinformation based on rumors?
Thank you.

[Deleted]

Can you please link the logs or are you just communicating missinformation based on rumors?
Thank you.

follow discord and sims

[Moruff]

The main issue with demo, as stated many many times in this thread already, is that its toolkit is lacking compared to the other two specs other than sustained dmg due to ramp up. Since Blizzard often designs fights with burst phases, priority adds, multi-dotting, etc, a responsible raider would probably choose destro to handle fights with those mechanics. And to make matters worse, because of artifact power, you're less flexible (but not entirely constrained) in your ability to play multiple specs unless some other spec is SOOOO much better for a fight that you would sacrifice artifact gains due to spec mechanic gains (which seems unlikely depending on where your artifacts are).

The sad thing is that demo needs only some tweaks to be fine. For example, making Demonic Empowerment instant would help a hell of a lot and so would buffing Demonwrath's damage, which atm is pathetic beyond words - just allowing the damage aura to stack so that a target can get hit five times if there are five demons would fix that; much better aoe and some much needed mobility too. I guess they don;t because of the shard generation, but that could be fixed.

Also I've seen this being mentioned on this thread a bunch of times, but making DE instant creates a different problem IMO. Since there's a delay in spawning minions, queueing DE would make your most summoned minions miss the buff. So you'd either have to put a cast in between, and basically be in the same position you are in now except for having a tiny bit more mobility, or you'd have to delay the DE cast, which would put a tiny gap in your rotation. The latter could actually be a dps loss depending on latency or how consistently you could time the cast. Might even require an addon to min/max.

[Krazzorx]

Mechanical issues are pretty irrelevant if you're topping the dps meters because there's generally other specs handling stuff like target switching. (particularly mythic where you run 14-15 dps) Look at HFC Arcane Mage. They basically could not target switch and were highly unreliable on priority targets like phantasmal resonance because they were entirely reliant of prophecy of fear. But they were an amazing raiding class because their dps was that high.

If demo locks when the dust settles is the top dps spec, it'll be the spec to play assuming good comp diversity.

[Moruff]

If you're progressing on Iskar and you're wiping to phantasmal resonance, and you insist on playing a spec that yields higher aoe dps or boss dps (when you aren't actually dying to enrage) but lower priority dps, then I'd argue the overall dps is irrelevant. No raid leader likes a meter whore at the cost of downing a boss. You can't rely on 13 other people to carry your dps because it's very possible doing 1m more effective dps is going to push you to a kill over doing 2m more overall dps. Think raden for example

[Gaidax]

If you're progressing on Iskar and you're wiping to phantasmal resonance, and you insist on playing a spec that yields higher aoe dps or boss dps (when you aren't actually dying to enrage) but lower priority dps, then I'd argue the overall dps is irrelevant. No raid leader likes a meter whore at the cost of downing a boss. You can't rely on 13 other people to carry your dps because it's very possible doing 1m more effective dps is going to push you to a kill over doing 2m more overall dps. Think raden for example

But for that particular case you can hold Thalkiel's Consumption and after that lead into Implosion for big burst on such add. Chances are you would do more damage than most to it in the end.

It's not that Demo does not have anything, it has - you just need to use your head. It is no Swiss Army Knife Destruction, but seriously it's not COMPLETELY void of ability to do side duties besides boss tunneling.

[Deleted]

I just wish that Demonology was more visually impressive. The original design where Demonic Empowerment made the dmeons considerably larger was great, now it hardly does anything. Make them bigger, give them a glow...anything

And I also think that a master of demons should be able to command something more impressive than the felguard. There are vast numbers of demon models kickign around in BC and of course Legion that could be used. A demonology lock shoudl be commanding a pitlord or fel-lord, not a felguard scarcely bigger than himself.

I think it was also a very poor design decision to remove the Inquisitor - a brand-new model throwing frostbolts, to replace it with that rubbish floating eyeball thing .

We've also lost the reskinned demons like the shivarra, a step backwards to the boring succubus which hasn't changed for donkey's years

Demonology should be about summoning impressive and unique demons, there are plenty hanging around! It's not hard, they give hunters a bunch of new pets every expac to tame. It sucks you get a fel-lord in PVP, but not PVE.

[Deleted]

And I also think that a master of demons should be able to command something more impressive than the felguard. There are vast numbers of demon models kickign around in BC and of course Legion that could be used. A demonology lock shoudl be commanding a pitlord or fel-lord, not a felguard scarcely bigger than himself.

Felguards look great, they're the iconic demo pet and for once I'd rather that stuck. Anything else should be a cooldown or optional.

I'd also hope we never see a pit lord as a pet. They're too good to ruin like that unless you want a terrier sized pit lord like that abomination of an, er, abomination that unhold DK's got. Large pets get scaled down for visibilities sake and just look atrocious, I'd rather have no pit lord than having a pathetic excuse for one.

It's a known fact that Blizzard haven't worked on the caster visuals yet for the most part - I think that's all the spec needs. Make HOG look fancier and DEmp not look like nothing and we'll be good.

We've also lost the reskinned demons like the shivarra, a step backwards to the boring succubus which hasn't changed for donkey's years

You mean the succubus that was updated this expansion and looks 10x better than the shivarra that you can glyph for in legion?