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  1. #161
    Brewmaster Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    DPS doesn't matter - having the right tools does.
    DPS matters.

  2. #162
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    DPS matters.
    It does, but just look at WOD - there's a reason destruction was the choice spec on plenty of fights where affliction would mop the floor with it on the meters, it's ability to swap targets and burst quickly was incredibly useful on progression until you had enough gear that other classes could do the job without destructions input.

  3. #163
    DPS does matter or else my guild wouldn't of been telling me to go Demo during Highmaul and Blackrock. Demo was so clearly head of the other two for the beginning of WoD.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    DPS does matter or else my guild wouldn't of been telling me to go Demo during Highmaul and Blackrock. Demo was so clearly head of the other two for the beginning of WoD.
    Yes because it had the toolkit for burst aoe.

  5. #165
    Is there anyone else who doesn't like warlock's changes like me and feels like rerolling Warlock?

  6. #166
    I watched this fatboss video and they (and the comments) are talking about numbers.

    What numbers, are there sims for Legion?

    http://youtu.be/agcI1ASd15g

    Iirc Blizz did say classes and specs will be rebalanced as everyone's artifacts get stronger so initial weakness/mediocity isnt terrible. But STILL COMPLAIN so that you're heard.

    I am even alright with my preferred spec (Affliction) being stagnant in pve as I think its gameplay needs work. The single target rotation has barely changed since Ulduar. 3 Dots, Haunt (or soulburn haunt), filler

    And Blizzard is more likely to help neglected specs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    Is there anyone else who doesn't like warlock's changes like me and feels like rerolling Warlock?
    If it is gameplay wise then there is no reason to punish yourself. Numbers wise... I would wait until the initial wave of buffs and nerfs
    Last edited by CuchuCachu; 2016-08-15 at 07:53 AM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by CuchuCachu View Post
    If it is gameplay wise then there is no reason to punish yourself. Numbers wise... I would wait until the initial wave of buffs and nerfs
    When do you think the initial wave of buffs and nerfs will take place?

  8. #168
    Fire mage is the SPEC.

  9. #169
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    DPS does matter or else my guild wouldn't of been telling me to go Demo during Highmaul and Blackrock. Demo was so clearly head of the other two for the beginning of WoD.
    Demo was king because it's toolkit was amazing. It had top tier mobility, the best burst AOE in the game when that could carry on multiple fights etc.

    The reason demo was gutted so hard was because it was so good at just about everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    Is there anyone else who doesn't like warlock's changes like me and feels like rerolling Warlock?
    Yes. Since MOP, but I'm far too stubborn and invested to reroll and on the bright side, you can usually find something to enjoy about the specs. It's less that the specs are all objectively garbage, just that after 10ish years each one has usually been designed better at some point in time, whether it be the WOTLK / Cata affliction that I love or the MOP destruction that, while I've always felt it was a mechanic short of being a rounded spec, still felt nicer than what Legion has served up.

  10. #170
    Gaidax - you're my man <3

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    When do you think the initial wave of buffs and nerfs will take place?
    They also said they will be rebalancing once artifacts get filled out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Demo was king because it's toolkit was amazing. It had top tier mobility, the best burst AOE in the game when that could carry on multiple fights etc.

    The reason demo was gutted so hard was because it was so good at just about everything.
    never stopped Fire Mages
    Last edited by CuchuCachu; 2016-08-16 at 09:22 PM.

  12. #172
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    Is there anyone else who doesn't like warlock's changes like me and feels like rerolling Warlock?
    I'm not so dissatisfied with the changes that I'll reroll from Warlock, but I generally speaking don't think the specs play any better than they have in the past. The only spec I feel was a slightly improvement was Affliction, but that has more to do with my hate for the MoP/WoD Affliction spec. The loss of snapshotting since MoP has been too real however.

    Demonology is a direct downgrade. The way the spec plays out is less fun and less viable. MoP/WoD Demo was arguably bullshit with how good it was all around however. Whenever it has been viable it's always sort of covered the most important aspects of raiding by having god like burst AOE, amazing sustained single target and decent multidotting etc. New class fantasy might be better, although it's entirely subjective, but the gameplay changes hasn't been an upgrade whatsoever.

    Destruction is more than ever a watered down version of MoP/WoD Destruction. MoP Destruction was so good in my opinion. No bullshit. Rain of Fire was good, embers were a non-RNG system that essentially gave you full control of what to do and when to do it. Chaos Bolts were juicy as hell. Shadowburn were jucier than ever. Honest to god, playing Destruction back in SoO was extremely satisfying. Pooling embers for just the right moment, and BAM, 1 million hit Chaos Bolts inbound. No charred remains either. What a stupid talent, really. It renders your entire kit into spamming Chaos Bolts. Every other ability feels like a waste besides generating ember, and Chaos Bolts felt so average because you were firing 4 of them every 10 seconds. No good.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Raw dps probably isn't going to be the deciding factor, destruction just looks like it still has the better jack of all trades toolkit as well as respectable output. I think I've heard people saying demo might be the best raw throughput spec though I've not checked myself so take that with a grain of salt, but it's immobile as hell and just not as kitted out as destro.
    It's more of a theory regarding Demo... they might have the highest throughput Single target just because Destro and Especialy Aff kinda lack a single target tool (like Demonbolt AND Thal'kiels consumption). It IS however likely that Demo will end up top dog in T20, once it gets Haste and unlocks a 3rd Legendary Slot as the Sin'Dorei Spite / Sigil of Sup Summoning / Kazzak's final curse combo is astronomicaly above what the other two can get outa legendaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    We've been told that 7.1 will go on the PTR very soon after launch and that it will be live before Nighthold. So my guess is barring something broken that needs to be hotfixed, we will see a lot of tuning changes with 7.1.
    I'm so not looking forward to this from blizzard, but we all know it's gona happen: "Roaring Blaze has been reduced from 60 to 30% to bring Destruction more in line with the other warlock specs" Since Havoced Roaring Blaze is pretty much the one thing proping up Destro, hell Lock in general atm X_X

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by CuchuCachu View Post
    I am even alright with my preferred spec (Affliction) being stagnant in pve as I think its gameplay needs work. The single target rotation has barely changed since Ulduar. 3 Dots, Haunt (or soulburn haunt), filler

    And Blizzard is more likely to help neglected specs
    Just wanted to say that they don't change specs for the sake of changing, only when they feel it's not what they want from the spec. Affliction is pretty straightfroward in what it is about, slowly draining powers/soul from your enemies. The current state pretty much does that, now it's even closer as you actually really drain in PvE too not just spamming Shadow Bolts. But it can still need rework because of gameplay reasons, but don't be surprised if Affliction still stays the same in 2023. They needed to change demo because it had conflicting abilities with Demon Hunters and they said it was a bad decision to give them Meta anyways as the spec should be all around your demons not you yourself being a demon, in their current philosophy.

  15. #175
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    DPS matters.
    Not when people focus on sims and potential, but ignore the realities of real raid encounters. Mobility, on demand burst. cleave and AOE abilities will win out over raw DPS potential every time unless the differential is massive.

    Pure DPS is meaningless if as a spec or class you are a third wheel in boss encounters - in archimonde, for example, if you had mediocre overall dps but excellent on demand burst for doomfires you were more useful and desireable than excellent theoretical dps that you weren;t able to achieve because of the movement requirements and could not help much on the doomfires because you had zero burst ability

    That's why people chose destruction in progress fights even though affliction had a higher damage potential. You went destruction because of it;s ability to rapidly swap targets, to burst, cleave and aoe even though affliction was better dps on paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    The reason demo was gutted so hard was because it was so good at just about everything..
    And because too many people felt compelled to play it even though they didn;t want to. Of course, theproper response would have been to improve destruction and affliction, but it was easier and cheaper to make them look more attractive by simply trashing demo - basically leaving players to choose whatever turd floated the best. The irony is that trashing demo just made everyone switch to destruction, right back to FOTM again.

    Now of course, Legion was an opportunity to address all of that, but instead we got...this.

    Oddly enough, though the devs never saw mages all rolling fire and being stupidly good at everything as a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfTwo View Post
    It's more of a theory regarding Demo... they might have the highest throughput Single target just because Destro and Especialy Aff kinda lack a single target tool (like Demonbolt AND Thal'kiels consumption). It IS however likely that Demo will end up top dog in T20, once it gets Haste and unlocks a 3rd Legendary Slot as the Sin'Dorei Spite / Sigil of Sup Summoning / Kazzak's final curse combo is astronomicaly above what the other two can get outa legendaries.



    I'm so not looking forward to this from blizzard, but we all know it's gona happen: "Roaring Blaze has been reduced from 60 to 30% to bring Destruction more in line with the other warlock specs" Since Havoced Roaring Blaze is pretty much the one thing proping up Destro, hell Lock in general atm X_X
    I'm really not fond of gear props at all, and the cynic tells me that there's something of a thing going on to encourag epeople to keep grinding for legendaries and artifact power there.

    And you're right. Typically Blizzard will nerf the one best-performing lock spec down rather than buff the others up, regardless of where locks sit compared to other classes.

    Onthe other hand, we can expect buffs to frost and arcane, to deal with the "issue" of everyone playing fire.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    And you're right. Typically Blizzard will nerf the one best-performing lock spec down rather than buff the others up, regardless of where locks sit compared to other classes.
    Onthe other hand, we can expect buffs to frost and arcane, to deal with the "issue" of everyone playing fire.
    The never-ending cycle! I hope this expac they prove it wrong though.

  17. #177
    we're basically throwing a dart at a dartboard with a blindfold on at this point by trying to pick a spec.

    and with the ninja nerf to roaring blaze it might be time to just pick demo and tough it out until i get my hands on some legendaries. yolo

  18. #178
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfTwo View Post

    I'm so not looking forward to this from blizzard, but we all know it's gona happen: "Roaring Blaze has been reduced from 60 to 30% to bring Destruction more in line with the other warlock specs" Since Havoced Roaring Blaze is pretty much the one thing proping up Destro, hell Lock in general atm X_X
    Haha, funny you should say that. Only they slashed it to 25%.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    Just wanted to say that they don't change specs for the sake of changing, only when they feel it's not what they want from the spec. Affliction is pretty straightfroward in what it is about, slowly draining powers/soul from your enemies. The current state pretty much does that, now it's even closer as you actually really drain in PvE too not just spamming Shadow Bolts. But it can still need rework because of gameplay reasons, but don't be surprised if Affliction still stays the same in 2023. They needed to change demo because it had conflicting abilities with Demon Hunters and they said it was a bad decision to give them Meta anyways as the spec should be all around your demons not you yourself being a demon, in their current philosophy.
    well I dont think Affliction feels very much like anything but another unholy death knight or shadow priest. Unholy has cornered the disease niche, shadow has covered the shadow magic niche. Affliction I guess is going to be the Soul Harvester niche, which I am fine with but I dont really feel like a warlock. I feel like a necromancer.

    Which is bizarre because the Legion has numerous examples of shadowy demons (like dreadlords), or spreading corruption (talador fel spiders, the pocket fel spreader, stuff ike that) which would inject some coolness into affliction

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Haha, funny you should say that. Only they slashed it to 25%.

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