30,000 Muslims unite to DENOUNCE ISIS. Source: Independant.co.uk

[Blade Wolf]

Doesn't matter if they get rid of Isis since another group will just spring out from the ground after they die out.

[May90]

Im working which gives me the free time to scroll trough forums while I wait for stuff to finish, and im not a muslim so why should I solved their shit.

You are a human, and they are humans, so their shit is your shit. Isn't that how it works in your world view?

[Slant]

Citing the article in the OP:

"Let it be clear that they are not practising Islam, rather it seems as though they have invented their own hate-filled and poisonous religion."

Same as usual, the nonsensical "it's not Islam" rethoric. Just entirely removing the responsibilty from their shoulders by declaring it not being their problem, instead of aknowleding that ISIS is infact following a legit interpration of Islam, albeit a horrid one, and trying to correct that. Though can be difficult, if for most conservative Interpretations of Islam (those are the most widespread, and what the arabic world is converging towards) the only difference to radicalism is the willigness to exert force.

You sound like you want IS to be following legit Islam so you have a reason to rant on about how Islam is bad. If the majority of Muslims denounces IS as unislamic, who are you to say they're removing responsibility? What responsibility? Did they tell IS to go and start beheading other Muslims? Does Islam in general tell IS to go and behead people or do their other mad stuff?

Now, normally you'd say "Uh, no, Islam doesn't do that." But that is a) boring and b) doesn't give people a proper, legit and undeniable justification to be the racists they want to be. So they'll reject any denounciation of IS, just like you did. Why? Because that would mean you're wrong in hating on Islam. It would be undeniably clear that you're a racist. But a racists' natural habitat is the grey zone, the ambiguous areas where he can be an asshole while still pretending to be a saint.

So, what's it gonna be? Because to me, the conversation sounds like this:

IS: "Hur, hur, west evil, let's kill them in... oh, the name of Allah, or something..."
West: "Dude, that wasn't cool! We really hate you guys!"
IS: "Yeah, we know. But you know, Allah said you're evil, so there!" *throws bomb*
West: "Oh, right... so, Muslims aren't denouncing them, this must be all Muslims hating us "
Muslims: "Eh, what? Mate, we don't hate... it's just them, they're crazy."
West: "But they said Allah this and Jihad that and all Muslims should kill us... ("
IS: "Yeah, that's right, die evil decadent West! Allah said so!"
Muslims: "Dude, just ignore them, they're stupid. Islam isn't about that..."
IS: "Yes it is!"
Muslims: "Like you'd know, murderers..."
IS: "Oh, fuck you, I'll kill you, too!"
Muslims: "Er, West? Wanna help us out here?"
West: "Ehm, yeah, just a sec, we're trying to decide if you're good guys or bad guys... so far, we're pretty split, how about you do a dance so we can believe you?"
Muslims: "A... what? DUDE! HELP?"
West: "Eh, not convinced, yet. Could you perhaps dance a little more expressive? We're having trouble seeing your moves through the smoke of your bombed house..."

[Deleted]

Citing the article in the OP:

"Let it be clear that they are not practising Islam, rather it seems as though they have invented their own hate-filled and poisonous religion."

Same as usual, the nonsensical "it's not Islam" rethoric. Just entirely removing the responsibilty from their shoulders by declaring it not being their problem, instead of aknowleding that ISIS is infact following a legit interpration of Islam, albeit a horrid one, and trying to correct that. Though can be difficult, if for most conservative Interpretations of Islam (those are the most widespread, and what the arabic world is converging towards) the only difference to radicalism is the willigness to exert force.

And I suppose you are not a neo-nazi? You are different for some reason. Don't like that? Tough. That's the logic you just applied.

[Ryme]

In the same way I wouldn't care about some Scientologists denouncing auditors, I really don't care about this; the root problem remains.

[Omybad]

Muslims are allowed to lie to infidels to further the cause of Islam (of which ISIS undoubtedly is), so that "denunciation" means nothing.

if only more people understood this

[May90]

if only more people understood this

Understood what? That anybody can lie? What a surprise!

[Guyv3r]

This is like... 0.1% of them? Still better than 0 i guess...

[Granyala]

Millions of Muslims worldwide are just as appalled by ISIS actions as we are and they are actually afraid of them too because ISIS doesn't see them as "Muslim enough" which makes them valid targets.

They aren't all mindless savages.

[Ramrod69]

These are part of a small sect that is oppressed by the muslim majority. This isn't some awakening from "moderates".

[May90]

What's with all these alt accounts in every thread about Muslims? Someone has too much time on their hands and spams new accounts hourly?

[stormgust]

You sound like you want IS to be following legit Islam so you have a reason to rant on about how Islam is bad. If the majority of Muslims denounces IS as unislamic, who are you to say they're removing responsibility? What responsibility? Did they tell IS to go and start beheading other Muslims? Does Islam in general tell IS to go and behead people or do their other mad stuff?

To me the responsibilty for muslims lies within finding out how their religion can be misused in the way ISIS does, and going for proper reforms to prevent that from happening (or at least the likelihood thereof). Merely denouncing it as "not Islam" doesn't do anything, the grounds on which ISIS interpretation of Islam is based on still remain - and once ISIS is gone, you thus can likely expect for similar organizations to start rising.

Now, normally you'd say "Uh, no, Islam doesn't do that." But that is a) boring and b) doesn't give people a proper, legit and undeniable justification to be the racists they want to be. So they'll reject any denounciation of IS, just like you did. Why? Because that would mean you're wrong in hating on Islam. It would be undeniably clear that you're a racist. But a racists' natural habitat is the grey zone, the ambiguous areas where he can be an asshole while still pretending to be a saint.

So basically the only thing you have as a counter argument is, "you're islamophobic and racist". But anyway, the bolded part is the problem in your narrow view. There is no one Islam, and thus you cannot say "Islam doesn't do that". What you have to say is more complex, simple answer doesn't provide you with anything here, yets thats the usual reaction by most muslims. That's fine for the general public (we all want to live a simple live), you'd expect better from their religious leaders.

[Majestic12]

Most true thing in this thread.

Except that you're wrong. Taqiyya is something important for shiites and simply means that you can deny being a muslim if persecuted. You righties need to go back to school.

- - - Updated - - -

What's with all these alt accounts in every thread about Muslims? Someone has too much time on their hands and spams new accounts hourly?

Burner accounts. Just in case they get banned for their hatespeech.

[Slant]

To me the responsibilty for muslims lies within finding out how their religion can be misused in the way ISIS does, and going for proper reforms to prevent that from happening (or at least the likelihood thereof). Merely denouncing it as "not Islam" doesn't do anything, the grounds on which ISIS interpretation of Islam is based on still remain - and once ISIS is gone, you thus can likely expect for similar organizations to start rising.


So basically the only thing you have as a counter argument is, "you're islamophobic and racist". But anyway, the bolded part is the problem in your narrow view. There is no one Islam, and thus you cannot say "Islam doesn't do that". What you have to say is more complex, simple answer doesn't provide you with anything here, yets thats the usual reaction by most muslims. That's fine for the general public (we all want to live a simple live), you'd expect better from their religious leaders.

Hmm, how to phrase it. Just because someone is a member of a religion doesn't give him responsibility for other members of the same religion. Nor does it mean that the religion itself is tainted, because it has bad dudes exploiting it for propaganda purposes. And make no mistake, that is what IS is doing. What Muslims are saying is basically that IS has nothing to do with Islam. It's evident to Muslims, so the fact that they make this statement is not to "make it official" or something. It's just to explain to the West that it has nothing to do with the religion. Islam is a victim in this scenario. IS picks an ambiguous religious text (and Christians know all too well how that works) and cherry pick stuff out of context for use in their rather professional propaganda machine.

So, when they ignore all the parts that teach Muslims about tolerance, peace and charity and only talk about Jihads, unbelievers and decadence of the West, they're not only not speaking for the whole of Islam, they're also, and this is the ironic bit, so enjoy this... they're using the exact same fucking rhetoric Xenophobes are using to justify their Islamophobia.

Let me rephrase it in yet another way... There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. If there are a million IS guys around (which is super highly exaggerated just to make a point), that means there are 1.499 billion Muslims that do not call for a Jihad, that do not call us unbelievers and do not think the West is decadent because we're not abusing our women. Yet, people like you pick the 1 million minority and claim that their distorted propaganda version of Islam is "the actual Islam" and thus the 1.499 billion non-IS Muslims have a responsibility to stop the abuse of their religion?

Tell me, how is the Muslim fruit vendor in Brooklyn, NYC responsible for whatever some goatfucking terrorist in Syria spits into his facetime app? And further, how is he supposed to stop him? Should he travel to Syria and punch the bad dude's face in? Are you serious?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

What's with all these alt accounts in every thread about Muslims? Someone has too much time on their hands and spams new accounts hourly?

Could be that they're not all burners? Some probably are, sure, but new people do join the site.

[Kalis]

Are we supposed to pat them on the back for denouncing terrorism? It should be a given that people denounce terrorists, not be applauded.

When you get to the point that people think not denouncing terrorism is the default position for your particular religious/political/whatever group, then you may want to have a long hard look at your group and see where it all went so dreadfully wrong.

[stormgust]

So, when they ignore all the parts that teach Muslims about tolerance, peace and charity and only talk about Jihads, unbelievers and decadence of the West, they're not only not speaking for the whole of Islam, they're also, and this is the ironic bit, so enjoy this... they're using the exact same fucking rhetoric Xenophobes are using to justify their Islamophobia.

So, when they (the members of what you refer to as Islam) ignore all the parts that teach ISIS about Jihads, unbelievers, decadence of the West, they're not only speaking for the whole Islam, they're also, and this is the ironic bit, so enjoy this ... they're using the exact same fucking rhetoric Xenophobes are using to justify their Islamophobia.

Yet, people like you pick the 1 million minority and claim that their distorted propaganda version of Islam is "the actual Islam" and thus the 1.499 billion non-IS Muslims have a responsibility to stop the abuse of their religion?

I'm saying that BOTH, the 1.499 billion and those 1m belong to the "actual Islam". As for the question, to me that reads as if you're saying, that you're completely fine with someone abusing your name.

Tell me, how is the Muslim fruit vendor in Brooklyn, NYC responsible for whatever some goatfucking terrorist in Syria spits into his facetime app? And further, how is he supposed to stop him? Should he travel to Syria and punch the bad dude's face in? Are you serious?

No, what I'm trying to say is, that this fruit vendor should aim for Islam to be such, that his friend working on the opposite side of the city won't ever feel, that traveling to Syria and joining ISIS is a solution to anything (which currently it is for a small number of muslims).

[Slant]

So, when they (the members of what you refer to as Islam) ignore all the parts that teach ISIS about Jihads, unbelievers, decadence of the West, they're not only speaking for the whole Islam, they're also, and this is the ironic bit, so enjoy this ... they're using the exact same fucking rhetoric Xenophobes are using to justify their Islamophobia.


I'm saying that BOTH, the 1.499 billion and those 1m belong to the "actual Islam". As for the question, to me that reads as if you're saying, that you're completely fine with someone abusing your name.


No, what I'm trying to say is, that this fruit vendor should aim for Islam to be such, that his friend working on the opposite side of the city won't ever feel, that traveling to Syria and joining ISIS is a solution to anything (which currently it is for a small number of muslims).

This is the sad part. Christians are able to just ignore the violent and negative bits in the Bible. You're not even talking about that. But you want to deny Muslims the integrity to also deny the negative bits (or rather, reinterpret them so they aren't negative) of their text? That's hipocrisy, textbook example.

You're reducing terrorism to a question of religion when it has nothing to do with it at all. If you remove Islam from the world and history, those fucktards will still bomb, kill, behead and terrorise people. On the other hand, you're just happy to condemn 1.499 billion people just because they have a common link in that they call themselves Muslim. And when they say "Uh, just to be sure, those guys? Not doing Islam right..." you start talking about how it's their job to get rid of those terrorists? How? Religion isn't a club with a membership roster that you can expell people from. I could make myself a Muslim in 5 minutes and there's not a soul on this planet that could do anything against it. You're essentially prejudicing 1.499 billion people for something they have absolutely 0 influence over. Well, except pretending they somehow stop believing in their form of religion. Which honestly, isn't going to happen... as is the thing with belief.

And no, I'm not fine with someone abusing my name. But what can I do about it? It's not me doing the deeds. And it sure as hell isn't my job to fix the problems of this world, especially not when they happen on the other side of the planet.

That fruit vendor? Unlike some forum dwellers that dream up solutions for world peace that aren't nearly practical enough to ever see real life, that dude has got a job and a family to feed. Taxes to pay, things to do. What the fuck do you think he's doing, twiddling his thumb all day until someone comes along with a weird view that he can somehow convert to moderate Islamism? Newsflash: Those extremists? They hate on moderate Muslims just as much as they hate on the West. The moderate Muslim fruit vendor in Brooklyn? Just as much an enemy to IS as the French racist hitting immigrant youths on the streets. If not worse, because they label Muslims that don't follow them as traitors. Do you think getting beheaded is a popular career choice for Muslims?

[May90]

Could be that they're not all burners? Some probably are, sure, but new people do join the site.

Seems unlikely, since they post the same type of messages. Besides, who would sign up on a MMO forum just to immediately jump into all the thread about Muslims and spew hate in there?

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

I'm denouncing this thread.

With no survivors.