Why do Jaina and Genn get so much shit?

[Demeia]

Its just sad seeing bad characters and writing come into play just to fuel an unnecessary faction war for the series RTS beginnings that haven't been in play for 12+ years.

That plus I still can't stand seeing a server player base split by factions anymore, its just a huge waste at this point tbh.

Honestly, it's just impossible that two sides--facing existential threats almost every year--haven't made peace by now. Enough, Blizzard. It's also, as Turbo says, extremely stupid to split the player base. We don't need the faction war. Hell, you could still have world PvP (heroes of the horde and alliance fighting it out by possessing random players) if you really needed it.

[Deleted]

I dislike Jaina because of two things:
1. She's a hypocrite. She claimed neutrality, but Theramore was used by the Alliance as a staging ground to attack Horde territory in the beginning of Cata (or between WotLK and Cata, to be more precise). And they didn't attack only military posts, but slaughtered a whole farming village with only civilian cows in it. For more info, quest through the Southern Barrens as Horde. Then, when the Horde destroys the supply line of the Alliance of those attacks, i.e. Theramore, she goes all crazy about them killing civilians. So killing Horde civilians seemed to be ok with her, killing Alliance civilians is a no-go. Though, admittedly, nuking it was overkill.
2. The change of her character. It's just too drastic. Her character now has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with her before, except for her power and her name. They seemed to need more people pushing for war in the Alliance. And instead of adding new characters, or changing some who are already on the brink, they just took the one who was working the most for peace and turned her around completely.

For Genn and Sylvanas: Don't know much about Genn, but what he does seems to be in character most of the time. Sylvanas was a b**** before she was turned, and is an even bigger b**** now. I'm ok with those characters.

[Gum]

No. Not at all.

I disagree

Jaina for god-queen of the alliance.

[caervek]

Because Jaina is a hypocrite.
She aids the Alliance, then claims she's being neutral and is surprised when the Horde retaliates.

You mean like when she stopped Varian and his forces from killing Sylv/Thrall and retaking Lordaeron after the wrathgate?

When Jaina was good she was the biggest peacemaker in Azeroth, sadly having her city nuked by the Horde kind of soured her opinion somewhat.

[Aeula]

Jaina because she's responsible for a massacre and her Bi-polar disorder keeps kicking in every few novels. She's clinically crazy.

Genn because he's using the broken shore to further his own revenge.

Personally I'm alright with Genn (for now), it's Jaina I despise.

[Casterbridge]

Jania being angry at the horde, especially while Garrosh was control is justified to an extent, he eradicated her home, yeah she was aiding the Alliance, but it's understandable that she lost her shit when the place she grew up became a crater. As for her actions with the Sunreavers where nothing like genocide and in the context of what she knew somewhat understandable if extreme.

However things have changed quite a bit since then, and now the full might of the Legion threatens Azeroth, and while she may never want to be allies with the Horde there are certain things that need to take priority over her hatred at this point.

[kaid]

Jaina's rage is totally justifiable if you read about what she went through. Most of the QQ about her comes from Horde players though.

You can only be stabbed in the back and betrayed after bending over backwards to try to smooth things out between the alliance and horde and giving the horde every benefit of the doubt and beyond and STILL got stabbed in the back. What she saw in the broken isles just fits the same pattern she has been seeing all along. She really has zero reason to trust the horde or anything they say again.

She tried to be the peace maker for years and years and at every turn was always betrayed by the horde. Her going total warpath vs the horde would be pretty understandable if the legion was not knocking on the door.

Genn also has zero reason not to try to wreck the horde given what sylvannas has done to him and his country.

[Goldielocks]

Best analogy i have for the Jaina's hatred would be like being angry at Germany now for what they did during WWII. Hitler was in control, as Garrosh was in control over the horde at the time.

See how the writing for this makes no sense?

[Deleted]

Because Jaina is an asshat.

[KaPe]

Best analogy i have for the Jaina's hatred would be like being angry at Germany now for what they did during WWII. Hitler was in control, as Garrosh was in control over the horde at the time.

See how the writing for this makes no sense?

That analogy would make sense if Horde actually paid the price for what they did under Garrosh. All they got was Varian giving them another chance and claiming he'd "end them" if they abuse it. No territories were reclaimed, no reparations were paid. All was swept under the carpet with no external consequences. Naturally, this included Sylvanas killing Alliance in a way that even Garrosh didn't approve. It's as if that never happened, with only Genn remembering and supposedly being asshole for it.

And of course, there's always "we cannot do that, there's a bigger threat to worry about".

[De Lupe]

Baine might as well not exist. The story only grudgingly pretends he's around because it's a reminder that he's the best Warchief candidate and - like Vol'jin was - is the only major Tauren character in existence.

Significant Tauren lore figures:

Magatha Grimtotem
Sunwalker Dezco
Hamuul Runetotem
Baine and Cairne Bloodhoof

And those are just the major players. I have a whole list of secondary ones as well.

Sadly though, I do agree that the Tauren are neglected on the lore front. I'm pretty sure they actually have the least lore of all the playable races. Clearly a Tauren-themed expansion is required to rectify this problem.

[Goldielocks]

That analogy would make sense if Horde actually paid the price for what they did under Garrosh. All they got was Varian giving them another chance and claiming he'd "end them" if they abuse it. No territories were reclaimed, no reparations were paid. All was swept under the carpet with no external consequences. Naturally, this included Sylvanas killing Alliance in a way that even Garrosh didn't approve. It's as if that never happened, with only Genn remembering and supposedly being asshole for it.

And of course, there's always "we cannot do that, there's a bigger threat to worry about".

I mean I personally wouldn't care if Germany paid reparations or not. I know that the people who are in power now and the majority of the country didn't want what Hitler wanted. Sounds like the current Horde to me.

Varian gave them a chance because he was dealing with the people who overthrew Garrosh. All of the Horde leaders were a part of it. I still find it hard to understand Jaina's lust for revenge against people who did nothing to her.

[Zyky]

All the time I see people giving Jaina and Genn shit for being "Warmongers", but their reasons for hating the Horde are fairly justified.

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

It isn't like they just sat back and let it happen. Carine sent his fastest message runner to warn her and because of that most of them were saved. Jaina didn't even hate them that much after that, mad sure but not insane, as you can tell from when you go to Dalaran as Alliance with Anduin before the Divine Bell situation. She turned batshit crazy after the "Horde" which was just Garrosh convincing 1 person in Dalaran to help steal the Divine Bell from the Alliance.

Genn has his city destroyed and raided by the Forsaken, and his son killed by Sylvanas, with Sylvanas as the new Warchief, I can't imagine he'll want peace with the Horde.

Genn kept his home in Forsaken territory, it was his fault for not leaving, sure "defend your home", but don't get pissed off when war comes because of your ignorance or unwillingness to form a peace treaty. That would be like a Jewish family building a home right next to Hitler's home.

Fairly good reasons. Then you have Sylvanas, who everyone seems to love, who just does whatever, essentially becoming like the Lich King. - "The difference warchief, is that I serve the Horde"

Sylvanas has never done anything outside of her peoples best interests, she's never done anything against the Horde. As for becoming like the LK, she doesn't force her will upon the people who get raised. She gives them the CHOICE.

[Koreche]

LOL @ people saying nobody had problems with garrosh... Just trying to act like most of the horde supported him LOLOL
The only people on the horde who liked garrosh were orc RPers and pvpers that wanted blizzard to put the war back in warcraft. Like nobody...
Infact i seem to recall a bunch of people mad because he went from at least trying to be a decent leader in cata to WTF KILL EVERYONE ROOOOOOAR in MoP

and How are the alliance not mad at genn? He stayed behind a wall and ignored the alliance until he needed their help. He literally said Fuck you i wont help you but then asked you to help him.

You can only be stabbed in the back and betrayed after bending over backwards to try to smooth things out between the alliance and horde and giving the horde every benefit of the doubt and beyond and STILL got stabbed in the back. What she saw in the broken isles just fits the same pattern she has been seeing all along. She really has zero reason to trust the horde or anything they say again.

She tried to be the peace maker for years and years and at every turn was always betrayed by the horde. Her going total warpath vs the horde would be pretty understandable if the legion was not knocking on the door.

Genn also has zero reason not to try to wreck the horde given what sylvannas has done to him and his country.

What she saw at the broken shore. Oh you mean varian who she could have saved had she actually been with the other leaders?
Yes she blames the horde because she was MIA at the most crucial part of the broken shore.

I can see why she hates the horde.. doesnt mean she should be an idiot. ERR the legion is here but lets fight each other!
Warlords of draenor? Ignore these new orcs lets just fight the horde!
And the current horde fought against garrosh's horde anyways. (but but but only when he attacked them!) except the entire MoP literally right after he bombed theramore and showed his love for orcs was the horde trying to break off. Its not easy to dethrone a tyrant when he threatens to kill anyone who speaks against him or has everybody forgotten hitler already? Not every german was all for the holocaust but they couldnt stop it because if they tried they might be reported to the nazis and killed. same shit. Sylvanas had kor'kron all over undercity, Darkspear captivers were in org, Tauren numbers are tiny so are blood elf and they got attacked by jaina.
and to be fair garrosh warned theramore and let them evac. nobody seriously just lets your enemies have port right under their nose...

[tehealadin]

I think Jaina will eventually side with the Legion, for the promise of being able to destroy the horde. I think she will be a raid boss in a later raid.

[Koreche]

Jaina is beeing smart when it comes to the horde. Fool me once....

Genn is a strong alliance character, horde fanboys are gonna despise him and the fact that
the alliance got a "cool race" like the worgens, who the kiddies overat horde feel they have a monopoly on.

If Jaina was a real-life person she would have flooded orgrimarr, but she showed restraint.

Nobody wants to play ugly ass werewolves on the horde...

- - - Updated - - -

That analogy would make sense if Horde actually paid the price for what they did under Garrosh. All they got was Varian giving them another chance and claiming he'd "end them" if they abuse it. No territories were reclaimed, no reparations were paid. All was swept under the carpet with no external consequences. Naturally, this included Sylvanas killing Alliance in a way that even Garrosh didn't approve. It's as if that never happened, with only Genn remembering and supposedly being asshole for it.

And of course, there's always "we cannot do that, there's a bigger threat to worry about".

They lost the majority of their fighting force...

Yes the horde that eventually were able to break away from garrosh and actively helped fight him did not get crucified afterwords.

- - - Updated - - -

The Horde were the aggressors all along. Garrosh started his Ashenvale and Gilneas invasion back in Cata. That's when all the shit started. Then in MoP Garrosh nuked Theramore for no justifiable reason at all. The warning didn't justify his actions. Theramore was alliance territory and home of Jaina, so of course she was pissed when it was nuked. And you are saying as if Garrosh had every right to start a war when all the alliance was defending itself against unprovoked assaults by the Horde. And what's wrong with Jaina getting pissed about having her home destroyed by the warmongerers? Talk about horde fanboyism.

Nothing is wrong with her being mad at garrosh's horde that died for doing what it did.
But trying to fight the horde that was a splinter faction and ended up fighting him while the legion is invading is stupid.
Do we kill the uncorrupt black drakes? I mean they are still part of the black dragon flight and waay higher % of black drakes were evil than everything else
Did we kill all the blue drakes?
Do we kill the dark iron dwarves?

no nobody cares the war is fucking over

[Aqualung]

Eh, I agree with Jaina and Genn. I don't think it's bad writing, well, no worse than most of the other character's writing at least.

[Deleted]

Because Alliance characters who call the Horde out on its shit are very rare, which triggers Horde fanboys because they're not used to the story holding their faction's actions to account beyond a convenient scapegoat instead of telling them how super special and badarse they are... but that they're also good and righteous even whilst they attack the Alliance unprovoked again. LOK'TAR!11!

Also MMO-Champion is notoriously a cesspit for Horde fanboyism. Just look at any Lore thread and Alliance positive posts get drowned out by the Sylvanas Defence Force coming up with some of the most hilariously delusional excuses to defend their waifu at all costs.


The vast majority of people who dislike Jaina are Horde fans, because she - and Genn - are the only two characters in the whole game who have the sheer audacity to be peeved that the Horde attacks the Alliance unprovoked and gets away with it multiple times. Most Alliance fans like her, because after two expansions of the Horde slaughtering people getting told "oh they're probably good people I guess, don't be mad they just destroyed another town, they're probably good deep down..." it's nice to have a character who doesn't bend over to excuse them.

It's always hysterical to see Horde fanboys call the Alliance 'whiners' but as soon as one Alliance character says so much as a bad word about the Horde you can look forward to literally years of forums being full of "OMG XYZ DESERVED 2 DIE BECUS S/HE SAID A MEAN THING ABOUT TEH HORDE S/HE'S EEVVIILLL!11!1 FIX IT BLIZZ!1"

hahahahahahahaha!! This alliance fanboy made me laugh

[TheVaryag]

All the time I see people giving Jaina and Genn shit for being "Warmongers", but their reasons for hating the Horde are fairly justified.

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

Genn has his city destroyed and raided by the Forsaken, and his son killed by Sylvanas, with Sylvanas as the new Warchief, I can't imagine he'll want peace with the Horde.

Fairly good reasons. Then you have Sylvanas, who everyone seems to love, who just does whatever, essentially becoming like the Lich King. - "The difference warchief, is that I serve the Horde"

Garrosh who has his little fanclub, who was wrecking havoc because "muh orcish horde". The Horde are much worse for instigating war, yet its Jaiana and Genn who get criticized for holding some pretty justified grudges.

Everyone loves Sylvannas? I hate her, I mean I don't get why some people like her, but then I have an orc-bias, I'm an orc player and I don't want a corpse as my warchief.

They hate cause they're blind and became warmongerers, do orc veterans want to blindly kill humans cause they fought them? Orcs realized they did all of that due to demonic blood, and just put It past them, yet puny humans can't put the past behind them.... cause humans are humans, we're humans we know what that's like, we can't put a grudge behind us easily. Humans might as well be called the Grudgebearers, we don't forget. We'll write It on our walls, our papers, our swords, and stick to It to the end...

Orcs forgive, but don't forget.

Humans don't forget, don't forgive.

[Gimlix]

When a character turns stronger and wiser due to hardships, we call it character development.

When a character gets more jaded and pragmatic and renounces some of their past ideals due to hardships, we call it bad writing.

Jaina and Genn are that bad writing. The extreme hardships of losing their family, their land, their friends and family to a clear enemy should have only turned them into better, kinder, more loving people. Just look what happened with Sylvanas after a similar ordeal.


For all intents and purposes it was the Horde military, using Horde equipment, acting on orders from the Horde supreme commander, not just "Garrosh". Theramore got wrecked in Pandaria pre-patch, Garrosh ruled the Horde for almost an entire expansion afterwards, and it's not what he got deposed for (the coup would have never worked out if his "orcish superiority" policy didn't turn more and more insane as time went on. Theramore reaction was just "well, that was kind of extreme, but LOK'TAR!!!").

Yeah sure, every person changes the same way after a nuke dropped on their hometown.
Both of them are great storylines.