Mafia 73: Emergency is NOW!

[Arialla]

I don't feel either way on Virothe at the moment, he hasn't been around enough to get one

[Reticence]

Heh, I mark people who say "the town" instead of "us".
You're saying you mark people who say "us" instead of "the town".

I pity the rest of the playerbase at this point

I look for all of it, truth be told.

I discount most of it, though, for previously-stated reasons. Mostly, I'm on the lookout for anyone who may be intentionally using or those words one way or the other.

I was deliberately being vague.
It's an asset that I'd rather not use unless I can use it to catch a scum. And if you're going to force me to reveal it, I have to question if you even see it first. I considered it rather glaring.

I clearly did not see what you saw. I will go back and re-read, then.

I just realized I never actually explained the actual "slip"... That's what TLDR summaries do with you. NOW I see why everyone is harping so hard on this point, you have absolutely no idea what I am talking about! Hooray for sanity!

The actual quote was celtic's post #160: "Because townies should never give up."

Could be read as a scum Celtic admitting that Jynx is town. But I don't think that is the accurate read. I believe the more accurate read is this was hypothetically speaking. Thus not a slip.

Dranxadin has been putting effort into the game. Post #195 is the one I had in mind. I gave him a pass for that post in particular, and a leaning town read for trying.
That is a notably weaker read than Jynx, mind you, but nonetheless valuable.

I'm also a bit less impressed by the play since then. I can't say he's not trying, but... it's feeling low effort.

Thank you for these.

It is a leading question because it implies Graeham is town.

Eh? Perhaps you misunderstood my question, because I never meant to imply that he is town. Some of his posts earlier in the game raised some (minor) flags for me, actually.

I noted that he was being more constructive and was contrasting that against last game and his admittance that he is more confident when he is on a team (usually scum). To that end, my question to you was whether or not you felt that his relatively-constructive behavior was due to him taking our feedback from last game to heart, or if he was more confident this game due to being scum.

It remains to be seen. And I do not read him as town. I do not read him as scum either. New Graeham is harder to read.

Very well.

That you think I am scum is obvious. Why is not. I failed some checklist? As I said the ball is in your court, and to use your words: shifty non-answer.

Apologies. I misinterpreted your question. I thought you were asking if my vote on you was meant as a play of some sort, and was clarifying that, no, I actually distrust you.

As for the reasons, I'll have that in a bit.

You're entitled to your vote, sure, but right now you're just a grumpy grinch sitting in the corner wearing his "lynch danner" t-shirt, being mostly useless.

Mostly useless? Frankly, I don't agree.

[Arialla]

Danner, it feels like your posts seem to have alot of content, but you're really just trying to be confusing.

[Reticence]

I clearly did not see what you saw. I will go back and re-read, then.

Correction, @Danner: I did see two things. Not sure which one you're referring to, but it may be due to lack of coffee on my part.

[dupti]

Very likely. I expect the scum to be spread out across both trains, and neither.

Alright good, so we also agree that there is most likely a scum on Kryllians wagon as well.

That itself does not really tell us much though. I'd like to know what you make of this and I'll gladly tell you my conclusions after you've shared your thoughts.

I apologise for the wall of text and it might be a bit confusing, but this is how day 1 went down (only listing votes on Arialla, Jynx, Virothe and Xanjori)

#4: Jynx votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 1
#6: Catta votes on Xanjori, || Virothe: 1, Xanjori: 1
#9: Celtic votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 1
#28: Dupti votes on Xanjori, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 2
#38: Krayzy votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 3, Xanjori: 3
#61: Celtic unvotes Virothe, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 3
#67: Celtic votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 3, Xanjori: 3
#70: Anakso votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 3
__ First vote on Arialla
#71: Kryllian votes on Arialla, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 3, Arialla: 1
#76: Reticence votes on Xanjori, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 1
#89: Virothe votes on Xanjori, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 5, Arialla: 1
#98: Catta unvotes Xanjori and votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 5, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 1
#113: Crackle votes on Virothe, || Virothe: 6, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 1
__ And now the first vote on Jynx:
#117: Marack votes on Jynx. || Virothe: 6, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 1, Jynx: 1
#122: Xanjori unvotes Virothe and votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 5, Xanjori 4, Arialla: 1, Jynx 2
#125: Graeham votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 5, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 1, Jynx: 3
#128: Celtic unvotes Virothe and votes on Arialla, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 2, Jynx: 3
#130: Allowyn votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 2, Jynx: 4
#133: Dranx votes on Arialla, || Virothe: 4, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 3, Jynx: 4
#135: Jynx unvotes Virothe and votes on Xanjori, || Virothe: 3, Xanjori: 5, Arialla: 3, Jynx: 4
#140: Arialla votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 3, Xanjori: 5, Arialla: 3, Jynx: 5
#142: Catta unvotes Virothe and votes on Arialla, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 5, Arialla: 4, Jynx: 5
#143: Marack unvotes Jynx and votes on Arialla, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 5, Arialla: 5, Jynx: 4
__ Arialla claims (#144)
#149: Danner votes on Arialla, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 5, Arialla: 6, Jynx: 4
#151: Virothe unvotes Xanjori and votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 7, Jynx: 6
#152: Listo votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 4, Arialla 7, Jynx: 7
#153: Marack unvotes Arialla and votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 6, Jynx: 7
#154: Kryllian unvotes Arialla and votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 5, Jynx: 8
#155: Dranx unvotes Arialla, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 4, Arialla: 4, Jynx: 8
#156: Jynx unvotes Xanjori and votes on Jynx, || Virothe: 2, Xanjori: 3, Arialla: 4, Jynx: 9

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and Danner please forget about your reads and just look at that and tell me what you make of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Or well, do both if possible.

[Virothe]

I don't feel either way on Virothe at the moment, he hasn't been around enough to get one

Hasn't seemed to stop anyone else from garnering some form of trust/distrust on me. This is another one of those times where you say something you seem to think will fit in to the thread but makes it pretty obvious you really aren't paying attention at all.

[Arialla]

*shrugs* Its how i feel. You can say whatever you like about it.

[Xanjori]

So I dont know about if the Danner lynch is the right course of action. I still dont trust him, I mean compare him this game to last game and there is a huge gulf in "towniness" as it were.

If Danner was to convince us he is town I consider the alternatives. I dont like Ariallas claim.

I dont understand how itd work as a town, but from what Im reading here I dont like it. Arialla is also still one of our quietest players, not searching to really question anyone but rather just responding to questions.

While my vote remains on Danner Id like to point out this is just an alternative that bothers me, of course Arialla could clarify some things to appease some suspicion but right now I think after Danner Arialla is the player that sticks out most to me.

[Graeham]

Vote: Krayzy

I'm comfortable placing my vote there for the time being. He may have a legitimate reason for being absent but the previous game was made all the more enjoyable as a result of inactive players being eliminated. Often inactive players turn out to be scum too so getting rid of them through a lynch has many benefits.

[Largehorn]

Hey look it's a vote count thingy...

Danner (3) - Celtic209 (#297), Xanjori (#313), Anakso (#317)

Allowyn (1)- JynxieJ (#304)
Arialla (1) - Crackleslap (#337)
Krayzy (1) - Soldier 76 (#349)

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

[Deleted]

Firstly I'd like to say that Krayzy is more than likely sick and/or busy so that's why he's so inactive. Im going to personally give him one more day before voting but I understand if other people vote for him

Secondly someone asked why do I think a Vig targeted me: Because I was a prime Vig target. Non-contributing low poster. And it doesn't make sense for scum to go for me unless theyre going for the Virothe Gamble (thats its official name now.)

Finally in response to @Danner

I said I cannot convince myself of it being a scumslip.
I mention it because wordings like this DOES activate something in my brain. It's a thing of mine, I pick up on words and contradictions, and question their relevance. Most of the time, I leave them as just that - idioms and imprecide wordings - and that is left as a benefit of doubt.

Would you have me mentioning those instances I find interesting, or would you not? You seem to contradict yourself on that...

(See, that contradiction is a primary example of what I am talking about. I do not believe you are scum for it, though I have to question your desire for silencing me, mostly I think it's just you not thinking it through properly.)

What I see here is "Waffle waffle waffle"

I believe I clarified this to Xanjori earlier.
The gist of it: No lynching is bad in general, because we need to eliminate the not-town end of the pool faster than the scum eliminates the town end of the pool. That's the pool theory. But lynching a 95% certain town is worse. I realize not everyone agree to that percentage. But I think we can agree on the principle?

If not, then I think we need to discuss that. Now or in the postgame.

And why is Jynx 95% town?

I believe I answered this to celtic. I also think both you and celtic are trying to find some deeper meaning here where there is none, and to read my statement in the opposite way I intended it to be interpreted. I cannot help but feel a tiny bit paranoid over that, but maybe it is just I who made a mess of the situation?

Bullshit. You said scumslip to tarnish me. And now that you've been caught out you're trying to Trump it (say you weren't really serious about what you're saying)

Im happy that Danner responded by I find it very hard to believe this to be the work of townie Danner. He's basically gone into backpedaling/defence mode instead of offering alternative theories/targets I usually see with townie Danner

I could be wrong but im 80% sure Danner isn't town.

I'd also like to point out that Allowyn is most likely scum because he/she is always scum

[Reticence]

@dupti, my case against Danner is as follows.

Some of it goes beyond the point of what would be considered "my initial read", of course, but hopefully this properly illustrates my thought process on Danner as the game progressed.

Spoiler: 

I have a bit of a grudge with Virothe after so cheekily stealing the last game, but it's not really much of a beef. Last game was pretty awesome all in all, and I do believe Virothe was partly to blame for that. Lynching him for that, even if he stole the game, does feel petty.

As for my vote now, I'm not sure. Day 1 has been very uneventful, spats from Xanjori aside (serious or not). This is probably also my fault, I never really picked a fight with someone this gameday. Partly I'm still a bit work out from last game, partly there is this WoW demon invasion thing thing that has been going on for the last 24 hours, so I haven't given this gameday the attention it deserves.

As a result, I feel I am lacking real options - and I'm fully personally to blame. Not particularly eager to lynch just about anyone right now; but lynching Jynx feels like a cop-out move. Either lynch we do could pay off. But either are a shot in the dark as far as I see it. And that makes my current celtic vote as good as any. (Apart from the fact that it is unlikely to go anywhere).

Non-committal waffling.

He kind of wants to lynch Virothe, but he kind of doesn't. He kind of doesn't want to lynch anyone in particular. He kind of doesn't want to lynch Jynx. But any of the available lynches could be good, but he doesn't know, so he's going to leave his vote on his joke target.

I do not like either of the current trains.
This is the one I dislike the least.

unvote
vote: Arialla

Suddenly, policy lynch!

In retrospect, I'm not terribly concerned with the day 1 outcome. Jynx dying would have been preferential, but I am at this point fairly certain Jynx is town, and I'm going to treat it as if Jynx flipped town until something tells me otherwise. This read is purely based on the lynch reaction at the time of Jynx's self-vote, and the indignation Jynx showed at that point. I believe the indignation was certainly not faked. On the other hand, it doesn't tell me whether Jynx was scum or not. Nonetheless, I imagine just about anyone except Anakso and Krayzy to call in the towel at that point and leave a parting misdirection package instead of clinging to that 1% straw.

Of course, if we get to gameday 7 with jynx still around, and everyone else reading as town, I am not sure I will be equally happy. But for now, not too concerned.

Non-committal by committing with the back door open.

He has an extremely strong read on Jynx based solely on the indignation at being targeted. He believes that is not faked, but then states that it doesn't tell him whether or not Jynx is scum, even though he clearly has a strong opinion as a result of that read.

That's always hard.
Reticence is the kind of player I instinctively want to trust. In this game, I think he's been a bit quiet. Then again - so has just about everyone else, myself included. Can't say I have a read on him yet - he just hasn't done anything to warrant any. But on a general principle, I want reticence to be town. I believe you know why, but for anyone else reading this - last game was the best example as to why. A strong town block on day 6 hunting down and eliminating the mafia. It was awesome last game. Reticence, when town, is a strong asset in doing so.

Non-answer.

A straightforward "I don't know, yet" would have been more palatable to me at this point, and I find it more problematic because it's in direct reference to me. I can't help but feel like he was trying to initiate the same pseudo-masonry from last game without looking like he was buddying up to me.

I'm not really disagreeing with you here. A no lynch is bad. It's bad because while I am mostly convinced Jynx is town, there is always that tiny sliver of doubt; and with a lynch, there would have been a tiny sliver of chance of lynching scum - where as a no lynch has a certifiably 0% chance of doing so.

[insert unnecessary explanation of why no-lynch is bad]

I'm also saying that the tiny sliver of doubt is really tiny as far as I am concerned with Jynx, meaning Jynx is in the high trust end of the pool for me right now. So if the alternatives were lynch Jynx or not lynch Jynx, I'm not terribly unhappy with the outcome. Obviously, that is not the full set of possible outcomes. The actual set of possible outcomes also includes [lynch someone else], which would have been massively more preferential. As such, I agree with you - it's a fuckup.

Backpedal.

"I mean, I know I said I wasn't concerned that we didn't lynch Jynx, but I totally agree with you that we shouldn't have no-lynched."

My townread on Jynx doesn't mean too much for my reads, frankly, beyond for you know, Jynx. Even if I assume Jynx is town, I cannot quite use that read for much. There is no reason to believe anyone in particular on the Jynx train yesterday were scum over anyone else, unless we know any of the alternative trains were not. And that too is uncertain. For example, if Arialla is scum, then the data is a lot more interesting. Need more info to find out.

Dodge.

Being pretty confident that one of the trains was town should, at the very least, allow Danner to view the people who didn't want to be on that train with some suspicion. He could have posed a theoretical for if Arialla was scum, and if Arialla was town, and then done an intersection. Something, anything. That confidence in Jynx is more than anyone else had at that point and he did nothing with it except reiterate it repeatedly.

As for the second statement... not quite sure what you expect. I've been trying to be a little less paranoid this game, seeing how that paranoia always end up backfiring. Mostly there hasn't been a lot to bite onto. The xanjori/marack thing was the only one that stood out on D1, but after Xanjori clarified it was a joke, it's a moot point. I'm also kinda wondering about your thought process to even consider that statement. I'm kinda wondering what the Danner in your head is really up to. Because he sounds a bit scary? O.o

Emotional armor.

Claiming to be less devious than you think he could be, even though we know he can be crafty.

Maybe sweeping his screw-up on D1 under the rug, if you thought there was some significance to it.

As for reads today; I would assume you are town too. For trying. But that's a smaller read. I'm still not one bit convinced about Reticence, he's not meeting the expectations I had of him. I wish to form a read on Xanjori, but I am struggling with finding one, despite his activity. And I could possibly vote Kryllian, but I generally prefer my own trains rather than sheeping someone elses - unless the reason is solid. Gonna have to make up my own mind. But as it is 03:30, not until after some sleep.

Non-committal waffling. If you're not on his team, Dupti, then maybe a splash of buddying up in there.

Okay Danner, if you prefer your own trains, who do you want to lynch? It sounds to me like you do not have a single scumread, is that correct?

- - - Updated - - -

And what do you think about Rets vote on you?

Putting this here for context for what comes after.

AAARGH!!!!

I have spent two hours now making a full analysis. And I just lost the wall of text post in a browser crash. Whyyy!?
*cries*

- - - Updated - - -

*sigh*

Have the TLDR version, without references and analysis.

I already addressed this part. I didn't like it at all, but am willing to consider the possibility that the value was lost in the abbreviation.

I'd be more suspicious of people who trusted me blindly at this point. Last game I feel I earned that trust, and also I had a frickin' cop investigate on me proving it. This game - not so much.

Jynx is the only one I feel confident enough about to stake the game on. And frankly, maybe not the game. But my life at least. Doesn't mean I can't cooperate with anyone else. Just means I have to treat reads as fluctuating. I expect everyone else to do the same.

Non-answer. More waffling on Jynx.

Two posts later and he hasn't really directly answered your questions. His analysis could be considered a response to your question about scumreads, no matter how little I cared for it, but he didn't answer you about my vote.

To clarify, a pass doesn't mean I trust him. In celtic's case, it's actually distrust. It just means I won't vote him today.
I guess my TLDR summary left out that reasoning. Sorry about that.
Basically, I want to see him deliver on that day 1 promise to push people. If he doesn't deliver within day 3 start, then he's straight on the list of people I want to vote on.

Kryllian is mostly in the same boat, just ended up on the different side of the coin. Probably the major decider on that was the way the rest of you treat him. This was probably again better explained in my non-TLFR version. But I would be interested in seeing where he could draw this game.

Nonetheless, if it's one thing I will agree with Listo on, its that voting Arialla feels like a cop-out; I had the same feeling yesterday; when complaining about Arialla being the best train around. Doesn't mean it's not necessary to do that vote at some point, but it's one that doesn't give us much regardless of outcome. A kryllan vote will, especially if he is scum.

This is probably the closest thing that I could find to a committed answer from Danner, and it wasn't even that committed.

I don't really care for the ex post facto justification for his Kryllian vote, when he initially justified it by pretty much saying he didn't have an alternative and that he was following people he semi-trusted. And, despite the fact that he mentions it in this post I don't think he can be excused for the hypocrisy of saying that voting Arialla is a cop-out when he ended a bout of waffling by voting on Arialla earlier.

You and Reticence are in the same boat, you know? It's easy to throw distrust about, but I'd personally consider it a major loss to mislynch either of you. That's why I don't want to lynch you without a casus belli. Doesn't prevent me from raising theories about you being scum if the read arises.

This... while completely true, and I completely agreed with it, raised a red flag for me, honestly.

Perhaps it's because we just finished a game where you and Danner got sucked into a spat on D1, and it lasted for days. Perhaps the cause for his suspicion on you in that game is specifically the sort of prompt that he requires. However, in that context it made this feel like a weak response. I can't help but feel like he's trying to avoid making enemies of players he thinks could pose a threat to him.

(Completely unrelated, I would argue that one of the biggest contributions I made in that game was refusing to lynch either of you because I thought you were both town, and potentially preventing other townies from getting sucked into your conflict.)

Some of this, I avoided mentioning earlier because I wanted to see what would happen if I let events continue uninterrupted. In many ways, you've been a very interesting foil for Danner during this process.

However, being that foil has raised a few concerns about you, as well.

Now, I will preface this by saying that I was incorrect in thinking that you were questioning him D1. Much of what I thought I remember happening that day actually happened on D2, and that slightly modifies my read of you for the better. The concern is still there, however, so let's get into it.

For starters, I will reiterate that I was surprised by your read of Kryllian. I felt that your "legit read" of him was incredibly early and in response to very little from him. For context, that read was on (#65), and he had made maybe two, three posts before that, if I recall correctly. You have already replied to this, of course, but I felt it should be included for context, as it was more or less the foundation for what follows.

Secondly, I can't help but feel like you've been pulling your punches when it comes to Danner. Sure, you question him and didn't like his reads or that he trusts Jynx, but there's something missing in the way you're going after him, and I feel like if this were last game, you would have been all over him far more than you have been for the posts I quoted above.

Perhaps all three of us are in the same boat and are tired from how much we put into the last game; I'll straight-up admit that is the case for me, and much of the play-style shift being noticed is no doubt a direct result of me deciding to be more laid-back this game before it even started. However, I cannot discount the possibility that the both of you are putting on a show for us. Neither of you seem particularly threatened by the other, and I find that troubling.

Thirdly, I didn't like the way you started this day. Despite your earlier suspicions of Danner, I didn't like that your vote on him was a direct response to someone else's vote, and it felt sudden and out of character. I mentioned before I didn't like that you responded to my normal question by suggesting that my support of the train had no weight to it, even though you later unvoted to pursue other opportunities (but still haven't actually re-voted). All in all, it makes me wonder if you smelled blood in the water and jumped the gun, knew your vote was out of character, knew that was why I was asking you about it, and tried to backtrack.

All of that said, I fully accept that I might be reading too much into things. Scum tend to not address each other this directly. However, it's exactly the sort of thing I would do with Danner (I think we tried it once? I don't recall it going anywhere, though), and it's exactly the sort of thing I would expect him to do with you if you were on his team. For those reasons, I cannot ignore it completely.

After re-reading some of the posts as I went back and organized my thoughts, though, I will reiterate that I feel a little better about you. If only one of you is scum, my money is definitely on Danner.

[dupti]

Do you want me to respond to that?

[Reticence]

General thoughts, perhaps, but I'm not looking for anything in particular, no. That particular experiment has run its course, and so it was time to submit my findings.

In before we lynch Danner, he flips town, I die tonight and flip town, then scum uses that post to lynch you, and you flip town.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh. I @Mentioned you just because you specifically asked me for an explanation on my Danner read. The post itself is not specifically directed at you.

[dupti]

Hm, I'm actually going to address it anyway because I actually dislike some of your logic.

For starters, I will reiterate that I was surprised by your read of Kryllian. I felt that your "legit read" of him was incredibly early and in response to very little from him. For context, that read was on (#65), and he had made maybe two, three posts before that, if I recall correctly. You have already replied to this, of course, but I felt it should be included for context, as it was more or less the foundation for what follows.

That is a very interesting statement, considering this is exactly what I did to Danner last game.
My Kryllian read was a legit read. I thought he was scummy, I pinged him out and disliked his responses. I have a very hard time believing you actually thought that this suspicious considering I do it all the time.

Secondly, I can't help but feel like you've been pulling your punches when it comes to Danner. Sure, you question him and didn't like his reads or that he trusts Jynx, but there's something missing in the way you're going after him, and I feel like if this were last game, you would have been all over him far more than you have been for the posts I quoted above.
Perhaps all three of us are in the same boat and are tired from how much we put into the last game; I'll straight-up admit that is the case for me, and much of the play-style shift being noticed is no doubt a direct result of me deciding to be more laid-back this game before it even started. However, I cannot discount the possibility that the both of you are putting on a show for us. Neither of you seem particularly threatened by the other, and I find that troubling.

So you find me scummy because you do not believe I am pushing hard enough on Danner? Unless you know for a fact that Danner is scum, I fail to see how that works. For what it is worth, if me and Danner were scumbuddies I'm pretty sure we would've distanced ourselves even more, but this is obviously WIFOM.
Anyway, no this has nothing to do with last game. My push on him last game came at a different time for different reasons.

Thirdly, I didn't like the way you started this day. Despite your earlier suspicions of Danner, I didn't like that your vote on him was a direct response to someone else's vote, and it felt sudden and out of character. I mentioned before I didn't like that you responded to my normal question by suggesting that my support of the train had no weight to it, even though you later unvoted to pursue other opportunities (but still haven't actually re-voted). All in all, it makes me wonder if you smelled blood in the water and jumped the gun, knew your vote was out of character, knew that was why I was asking you about it, and tried to backtrack.

Hm, "despite your earlier suspicions of Danner", I'm pretty sure I already addressed this and I feel like you are misrepping me. I found Danner suspicious yesterday, questioned his reads, claimed that I did not want to lynch him at that time and pursued my stronger scum read instead(Kryllian). Seeing as Kryllian is no longer alive, I can now get back to Danner. I had a couple of things I wanted to push today, but Celtic started out by voting on Danner, I decided to join because I was really interested in seeing who would actually join since apparently everyone thought he was scummy. There were a couple of "consider my vote on him" like you and Xan(?) I believe, but overall the wagon did seem to grow which was why I unvoted to not force a single wagon. I haven't moved my vote because I am still questioning him. I also told Dranx that if he wanted to pursue something else he should do so, because he seemed to believe the game was paused until Danner got here and I honestly think that's a terrible mindset to have.

All of that said, I fully accept that I might be reading too much into things. Scum tend to not address each other this directly. However, it's exactly the sort of thing I would do with Danner (I think we tried it once? I don't recall it going anywhere, though), and it's exactly the sort of thing I would expect him to do with you if you were on his team. For those reasons, I cannot ignore it completely.

Do what exactly?

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And Ret I'd like you to explain why you voted with me d1 if you thought I was suspicious.

[Reticence]

That is a very interesting statement, considering this is exactly what I did to Danner last game.
My Kryllian read was a legit read. I thought he was scummy, I pinged him out and disliked his responses. I have a very hard time believing you actually thought that this suspicious considering I do it all the time.

I'm not sure this is a valid defense of this point. I was not talking about the tactic in general or your historical use for it. I said this game, specifically, with Kryllian, specifically, there was a disconnect for me between your read, how early it was, and what I had seen from Kryllian prior to that post.

Having your suspicion of him grow based on his responses is also not a problem for me. Your initial read in the context of Kryllian's posts is what seemed out of place. I thought that was clear.

So you find me scummy because you do not believe I am pushing hard enough on Danner? Unless you know for a fact that Danner is scum, I fail to see how that works.

Nice twist, but no.

It should be fairly obvious that this part of the suspicion is based upon the premise that Danner is scum, and obviously the validity of this point is in question if he is not.

Anyway, no this has nothing to do with last game. My push on him last game came at a different time for different reasons.

I'm not really talking the timing of your push so much as the content of your replies to him. You're clear to indicate that you're not a fan of his responses, but there has been less weight to those replies than I anticipated.

Hm, "despite your earlier suspicions of Danner", I'm pretty sure I already addressed this and I feel like you are misrepping me. I found Danner suspicious yesterday, questioned his reads, claimed that I did not want to lynch him at that time and pursued my stronger scum read instead(Kryllian). Seeing as Kryllian is no longer alive, I can now get back to Danner. I had a couple of things I wanted to push today, but Celtic started out by voting on Danner, I decided to join because I was really interested in seeing who would actually join since apparently everyone thought he was scummy.

I have acknowledged your explanation of your vote and have factored that into my read of the situation, but am expressing that I found the timing and circumstances of it jarring, "despite your earlier suspicions". I'm not sure how I can be misrepresenting you with an expression of what went through my mind when it happened.

There were a couple of "consider my vote on him" like you and Xan(?) I believe, but overall the wagon did seem to grow which was why I unvoted to not force a single wagon. I haven't moved my vote because I am still questioning him. I also told Dranx that if he wanted to pursue something else he should do so, because he seemed to believe the game was paused until Danner got here and I honestly think that's a terrible mindset to have.

That is fair, and I don't disagree. But you can you see how it might appear odd, yes?

Before I go on... quite frankly, I'm fried, so I'm perfectly willing to accept that either my intent has not been completely clear with my posts today or that I'm taking your posts too personally. However, it would be negligent of me not to point out that your defense in each of the previous points involved some level of misinterpretation or turning my own point against me. I also want to note that you kind of did something similar earlier today when you said "consider my vote on him" did not mean anything if I did not question Danner, even though I had. And while you did address my other concerns from that part of the day, you never did address my concern about that.

Turnabout's fair play and all, but if either of us are hoping to establish some level of trust here, then we should probably make efforts to avoid this sort of thing going forward. I'll state for the record right now that I'm not trying to misrepresent or misconstrue anything you're saying, and I hope the same is true of you.

Do what exactly?

Antagonize a teammate in the day-thread. There was a game forever ago (MLP, maybe?) in which Danner and I intended to have a spat on D1 (as teammates), but it didn't go very far due to other things taking the spotlight. My point was that I could see the two of you also doing it, just as I could see you and I doing the same.

And Ret I'd like you to explain why you voted with me d1 if you thought I was suspicious.

I did not consider you terribly suspicious until I went digging for what you could have been referring to, failed to find anything I found compelling, and asked you about it. I thought it was interesting that you had a legit read on Kryllian (I even addressed it in that post), wasn't sure exactly where it came from, but had not yet come around to disliking it.

I also wasn't really voting with you. Mostly, I wanted a second train to Virothe's, and didn't feel too bad about Xanjori's given that he lasted the majority of the last game. Though, I did feel a little bad given that I also lynched him last game.

[Deleted]

Vote Arialla

On the basis of escaping lynch once against a flipped town yesterday and against Jynx who I see as almost certainly town day 1. Hopefully this will shed more line on the day 1 and day 2 trains.

[Crackleslap]

Holy shit. Come back and theres 17 new wall of texts. Mega sighs. This gun take awhile.

[Arialla]

Vote Arialla

On the basis of escaping lynch once against a flipped town yesterday and against Jynx who I see as almost certainly town day 1. Hopefully this will shed more line on the day 1 and day 2 trains.

I can't even begin to fathom this logic

[listo95]

Vote Arialla

On the basis of escaping lynch once against a flipped town yesterday and against Jynx who I see as almost certainly town day 1. Hopefully this will shed more line on the day 1 and day 2 trains.

You say this yet you never bothered wanting to try and go after Arialla when his train did start to form. Then again you did go missing for 24 hours at that point...

Sometimes I wonder why I try to defend Arialla. I honestly do not believe he is scum and he will be or is being used currently has lynch bait.