How powerful is Kiljaedan ?

[death604]

no, it wasnt.
it was crafted by malfurion.
Cenarius enchanted it to be as hard and sharp as a diamond.

point is it was the axe that did the work in giving sargeras a paper cut not brox.

[Qualia]

it really doesn't matter if we were losing the fight because the point is Kil Jaeden was trying to kill us, and he was having trouble despite the fact our only back up that time was a pre-aspect blue dragon.

it's either kalec even before the aspect promotion is ridiculously strong, or Kil'Jaeden's not that strong to begin with.

Or that fall into the issue of bosses not being able to do what they can do in an encounter and the in-game raid doesn't reflect how the fight goes in lore.

For example: even if we are to ignore the ability to destroy a planet, Archimonde still has ability to kill a target miles away (that he used in WoTA), yet he never bothered to use it in Hyjal raid. Malygos has his beam ability that erased everything it touched (used during WoTA), even intangible things, yet he never used it against us. Nozdormu / Murozond can stop / magically age you (used in Day of the Dragons), we didn't see that happen in End Time, either. All that come down to one reason - if they did it, it'd lore-wise be game-over. Thus, they need to not being able to do it due to some unknown reasons (in other words, Plot-Induced Stupidity invoked).

Then, we also have to keep in mind that how the fight goes in game doesn't necessarily reflect how it goes in lore. For all we know, it's entirely possible that the army of Azeroth (aka our raid) have been taking massive losses by then, Blizzard just couldn't find a good way to display it. Like Illidan's encounter. It seemed smooth in game, yet in lore, Illidan was killing left-and-right, and he actually thought he "had ridden out the storm" before Maiev appeared. That could be the same here for us. Maybe KJ was supposed to have killed a bunch of us when Anveena started sacrificing herself, we don't know.

All in all, my point is that you can't judge someone's power based on in-game encounters only. The in-game fight(s) is a factor to be considered, but if there are information from other sources, we need to take those into accounts as well.

Cenarius enchanted it to be as hard and sharp as a diamond.

Cenarius enchanted it with the power of Azeroth itself, allowing it to cut anything. Now that we know Azeroth is actually an extremely powerful nascent titan, that axe definitely has some powerful enchantment backing it up. Brox was able to cut Sargeras thanks to the axe, not himself. He was already dying by then.

[Traveler Voltin]

"the axe was enchanted to have the sharpness and density of a diamond and would never break. It proved to be able to slice through any foe with ease"

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Axe_of_Cenarius

try again

[Rathbourne]

"the axe was enchanted to have the sharpness and density of a diamond and would never break. It proved to be able to slice through any foe with ease"

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Axe_of_Cenarius

try again

Considering this is the same novel that said Sargeras would beg for mercy against Old Gods, i would take everything with a grain of salt.

[Qualia]

"the axe was enchanted to have the sharpness and density of a diamond and would never break. It proved to be able to slice through any foe with ease"

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Axe_of_Cenarius

try again

Outdated information, probably taken from WoTA triology. On the other hand, this is what was described about the axe in "Stormrage"

But the ax was even more powerful than the orcs knew, and no one understood that better than Malfurion. His own shan’do had imbued it with forces bound to the world, forces that made it as much of Azeroth as the very seas and land, the very air.
And it was with that ax that Malfurion hoped to vanquish the Nightmare and free himself.
<...>
What was important was that in cutting into the tree, the ax—forged by Cenarius and with the life force of Azeroth fueling it—also severed the spells that had caught Malfurion by surprise and trapped him so.
<...>
If not for Elune’s light, the ax would have done its work well. As it was, although the ax did not reach the tree, the magic of the weapon weakened the sphere (note: this is the sphere made of Elune's power, one that even Archimonde couldn't break back in WoTA; Its user was Thura - a strong, but normal orc all the same)

A part of that story was about how awesome that axe was, after all. Even the Nightmare wanted to unbound it from Azeroth, or use it themselves through another. Pretty sure an axe that is only sharp and hard, and nothing else, wouldn't be able to cut things like magic or corruptions.

[Kathranis]

/sigh. ok could you give me a direct quote for this ? I agree with a lot of what u just said but this is bullshit.I've read the Chronicles and nowhere is this said.So plz give me a quote.

Well, "unmake reality" is maybe a bit hyperbole. They want to invade from beyond reality and "devour all of creation," which likely means either transforming reality into nothingness, or transforming it into some sort of insane Lovecraftian hellverse. Either way it's really bad.

Still, my point is that right now it seems like the Void Lords have to be a threat on an even larger scale than Sargeras, which I don't think is necessarily healthy for the overarching story of the game. If Azeroth and Sargeras are all that's left of the Titan race, and Sargeras is destroyed and Azeroth can never awaken, then they can scale things down to a much healthier level while still keeping the Void as a legitimate, serious threat.

[MikeBogina]

I love how some of you like to make up how powerful Kil'jaeden is. He didn't kill us, he wanted to kill us. Simple. We didn't get help from the sunwell in the fight, only to push him back.

We've also fought Archimonde twice now, once in the twisting Nether which makes him even more powerful and still beat him. And he's the field commander of the Legion.

Arthas could have killed us from the start, simple as that. Arthas > KJ/Archimonde when it comes to combat power.

- - - Updated - - -

Considering this is the same novel that said Sargeras would beg for mercy against Old Gods, i would take everything with a grain of salt.

I like to pretend Krasus, Rhonin and Broxigar never really went back in time and those books never happened, especially since there's no real evidence of it in wow. They really should remake those books, without the time travel.

[TheFirstOnes]

I love how some of you like to make up how powerful Kil'jaeden is. He didn't kill us, he wanted to kill us. Simple. We didn't get help from the sunwell in the fight, only to push him back.

We've also fought Archimonde twice now, once in the twisting Nether which makes him even more powerful and still beat him. And he's the field commander of the Legion.

Arthas could have killed us from the start, simple as that. Arthas > KJ/Archimonde when it comes to combat power.

- - - Updated - - -



I like to pretend Krasus, Rhonin and Broxigar never really went back in time and those books never happened, especially since there's no real evidence of it in wow. They really should remake those books, without the time travel.

The first time we killed archimonde was with the help was wisps, the second time we defeated archimonde was when we became OP as fuck, defeating guys like DW, and old god powered garrosh. Saying that arthas could 1 shot us is like saying goku should've lost to raditz because he was more powerful than goku.

-____- Try making excuses now. Oh yah, that's right, YOU CAN'T!

[The Professional]

Kil'jaeden probably gained a huge powerup in Legion. He should be above the Old Gods/deathwing/archimonde/azshara but below the likes of Sargeras/void lords/Lich King/Hakker

[MikeBogina]

The first time we killed archimonde was with the help was wisps, the second time we defeated archimonde was when we became OP as fuck, defeating guys like DW, and old god powered garrosh. Saying that arthas could 1 shot us is like saying goku should've lost to raditz because he was more powerful than goku.

-____- Try making excuses now. Oh yah, that's right, YOU CAN'T!

You know I'd love to believe you, but you have nothing. Are you literally taking the fact that we are higher lvl, more hp and more dps, that we're more powerful? I mean we are more powerful, but that much more powerful? We're so not that much more powerful, that we get owned by an injured Garrosh in Nagrand. We almost die until Thrall saves us.

So yeah, I believe that Arthas would still one shot us. The same with C'thun and Death Wing could still one shot us.


And what a horrible DBZ comparison, made zero sense.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Arthas could have killed us from the start, simple as that. Arthas > KJ/Archimonde when it comes to combat power.

But that simply isnt true. if you throw the the Lk in the same room as KJ or Arch, he wouldnt be walking out. We have never fought Kj at full strength, he wasnt even fully through the portal. Lich king may have one shot us, but that doesnt magically make him stronger than Kj the guy who created him, or The Defiler. Our characters have just become retarded powerful. As for the garrosh thing, we didn't have the plot device ring yet. Which I assume blizzard will use as their reasoning.

[Aquamonkey]

"the axe was enchanted to have the sharpness and density of a diamond and would never break. It proved to be able to slice through any foe with ease"

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Axe_of_Cenarius

try again

Outdated information, probably taken from WoTA triology. On the other hand, this is what was described about the axe in "Stormrage"

The WotA trilogy says nothing about the Axe of Cenarius having the qualities of a diamond.

[Strawberry]

Not sure if this was said Before, but it seems that Lich King is more powerful than Kil'Jaeden.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Illidan_Stormrage

Under Allegiances you can read this:
After the Legion's defeat, Illidan was visited by Kil'jaeden, who, while noting Illidan's track record with the Legion, offered him one final chance to serve them. He told Illidan to seek out the Frozen Throne and destroy it. Ner'zhul had grown far too powerful for Kil'jaeden to control and Illidan was to remove him from the equation in exchange for more power and magic than he could dream of.

[Rathbourne]

Not sure if this was said Before, but it seems that Lich King is more powerful than Kil'Jaeden.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Illidan_Stormrage

Under Allegiances you can read this:
After the Legion's defeat, Illidan was visited by Kil'jaeden, who, while noting Illidan's track record with the Legion, offered him one final chance to serve them. He told Illidan to seek out the Frozen Throne and destroy it. Ner'zhul had grown far too powerful for Kil'jaeden to control and Illidan was to remove him from the equation in exchange for more power and magic than he could dream of.

The website you're quoting,Wowwiki, can be edited by anyone.Who ever wrote that had no idea what they were talking about.Nerzhul betrayed Kiljaedan's trust,he was never said to be more powerful.

[Qualia]

Not sure if this was said Before, but it seems that Lich King is more powerful than Kil'Jaeden.

I guess you are joking / trolling. However, in the small chance that you are not, let me tell you that the part you quoted doesn't mean anything. It's just means Ner'zhul / LK was powerful enough that he couldn't be controlled anymore (by magic, since KJ was many thousands years of travel away from Azeroth). It doesn't mean LK / Ner'zhul was more powerful than KJ.

In comparison - KJ couldn't control Illidan either, neither was he able to control Gul'dan in Tomb of Sargeras. Both of them had their own free wills and could do what they wanted. Yet, you will find that both of those (Illidan & Gul'dan) aren't anywhere nearly as powerful as KJ.

[Aucald]

Not sure if this was said Before, but it seems that Lich King is more powerful than Kil'Jaeden.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Illidan_Stormrage

Under Allegiances you can read this:
After the Legion's defeat, Illidan was visited by Kil'jaeden, who, while noting Illidan's track record with the Legion, offered him one final chance to serve them. He told Illidan to seek out the Frozen Throne and destroy it. Ner'zhul had grown far too powerful for Kil'jaeden to control and Illidan was to remove him from the equation in exchange for more power and magic than he could dream of.

Ner'zhul (as the Lich King) hadn't grown too powerful for Kil'jaeden to control but he had grown beyond the parameters Kil'jaeden had set and was attempting to wrest back his freedom. I doubt Kil'jaeden considered the Lich King a direct threat of any kind, but as any evil mastermind worth his salt knows it's not good to let the help get big ideas about free will and such things.

[Strawberry]

Things however have changed. Time has passed sing Ner'zhul. He started off as a creation of Kil'jaeden. Then started growing powerful until Kil'jaeden couldn't control him. It's safe to assume that he continued growing in power since Illidan didn't stop him. And then Arthas took over, and then Bolvar. I don't think that they made the Lich King weaker.
Just because NPC A created NPC B doesn't mean that NPC A will always be stronger than NPC B.

[Cl4nK]

In comparison - KJ couldn't control Illidan either, neither was he able to control Gul'dan in Tomb of Sargeras. Both of them had their own free wills and could do what they wanted. Yet, you will find that both of those (Illidan & Gul'dan) aren't anywhere nearly as powerful as KJ.

Perfect explanation.

[Qualia]

Things however have changed. Time has passed sing Ner'zhul. He started off as a creation of Kil'jaeden. Then started growing powerful until Kil'jaeden couldn't control him. It's safe to assume that he continued growing in power since Illidan didn't stop him. And then Arthas took over, and then Bolvar. I don't think that they made the Lich King weaker.
Just because NPC A created NPC B doesn't mean that NPC A will always be stronger than NPC B.

It's true. The created isn't necessarily less powerful than the creators. However, we also need to keep in mind that KJ / Archimonde can destroy planet easily (ref Velen short story - "Prophet's Lesson"), Arthas - on the other hand - hasn't been able to do anything close to it. Also in "Prophet Lesson", Velen saw a vision of a Lich King "even more terrible than Arthas & Ner'zhul" who succeeded in conquering Azeroth. Was the Legion, or KJ afraid of him? Nope. When the Legion came, they laughed and toyed with this dead army on Azeroth instead.

In summary, you are right that being created doesn't necessarily mean or imply Lich King would be weaker than KJ. However, other things - such as what I mentioned - did.

[Wyattbw09]

In comparison - KJ couldn't control Illidan either, neither was he able to control Gul'dan in Tomb of Sargeras. Both of them had their own free wills and could do what they wanted. Yet, you will find that both of those (Illidan & Gul'dan) aren't anywhere nearly as powerful as KJ.

Just as a point of note, Illidan, though he had a chance to beat KJ, he may have been delusional and he admitted it was a slim chance but he thought he could do it.

Azshara however, rivals the power of the KJ and Archimonde and may very well be able to defeat either of them in terms of power.

Cosmically speaking Lich King is powerful in the sense that the dead vastly outnumber of the living if the Scourge was ever just turned loose they would eventually run rampant over everything on Azeroth be morals or deamons. However, the Lich King as individual entity is not even in the team picture with KJ, Archimonde, or Azshara, or for that matter Illidan, at the time of the Burning Crusade.