[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Dastey]

So hotfixed are in.

Incinerate damage increased from 170% to 190% spell power
Immolate can no longer gain a shard from its initial damage.

Single target buff. Cleave probably around the same. Multi mob very minor nerf.
I would think it's something like this. Though a little unsure. Not gonna move a lot, but I'm decently OK with these changes

[Scathbais]

2.)It just feels weird right now. Chaos Bolt gradually falls behind Immolate as a fight goes on. I want CB doing 40% of my damage or higher personally, but that could just be me.

Other people have put in hundreds more hours than me so their feedback could be a lot different, but this is basically what I got from it.

Well, the incoming nerf to Roaring Blaze to 25% (see patch notes here) should help with that /cry

[Uzkin]

So hotfixed are in.

Incinerate damage increased from 170% to 190% spell power
Immolate can no longer gain a shard from its initial damage.
Roaring Blaze nerfed from 60% to 25%.

Single target buff. Cleave probably around the same. Multi mob very minor nerf.
I would think it's something like this. Though a little unsure. Not gonna move a lot, but I'm decently OK with these changes

You missed one (added above). Large single target nerf. Large cleave nerf. Multi mob nerf.

Edit. I love how Blizz says the nerf was from 50% to 25%. "Hey, lets lie about its earlier value so that the nerf doesn't seem quite as bad."

[Bjarkan]

That's not particularly true, no. The entire point of RPPM is to normalize the number of procs regardless of the instances of damage dealt. So dealing a large amout of hits really quickly will have no dsicernable effect on it, aside from potentially helping to smooth out the procs.

On the other hand, GoSac's RPPM is modified by haste (not all are). So Bloodlust and a lot of haste will, indeed, increase the number of procs you see.

Well, from my experience in old content where i just kill with Immolate for the short cast time, i can said a dont see a lot of proc of Demonic Power if a dont hit the target quite quickly... Dunno about the exactly mechanic, but this is what i have been see for a while now.

[Lucrece]

This simply isn't going to be an xpac for warlocks. 3 talent rows made of baseline abilities that were removed to create "choice" where other classes gained entirely new abilities and talents.

Warlock resources and mastery turned into an RNG fest. Demo had the potential to offer something new and fresh compared to the stripped affliction and destro, but it's too undertuned and hamstringed by horrible mana costs to boot.

[Zoopercat]

Dropping in with a quick update, the hotfixes are live for the AMR simulator (including Roaring Blaze). We also have improved the APL a bit. If anything looks off, let me know.

Here's a quick report for 840 gear that has balanced stats (to avoid biases) and trinkets without crazy procs (again to avoid bias for testing). Play around with those and the damage will definitely go up. Those profiles are more for testing purposes, not ranking.

It looks like a lot of locks are testing out the changes, but for those of you still new to the simulator, here's a crash course video.

[Fallensaint]

Well, from my experience in old content where i just kill with Immolate for the short cast time, i can said a dont see a lot of proc of Demonic Power if a dont hit the target quite quickly... Dunno about the exactly mechanic, but this is what i have been see for a while now.

I've also noticed that Demonic Power almost never procs in old content. Now that I think about it, that may have to do with whatever they did to reduce RPPM procs at the start of combat. Since everything dies so quickly, you'll probably never get to the point where procs would occur at a normal rate.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, it's pretty obvious that the changes to Incinerate and Roaring Blaze were to help close the gap between Roaring Blaze and Backdraft. Previously there was almost no reason to ever spec into Backdraft, and judging by the updated AMR sims they're now much closer (though RB still pulls ahead).

[bio347]

I've also noticed that Demonic Power almost never procs in old content. Now that I think about it, that may have to do with whatever they did to reduce RPPM procs at the start of combat. Since everything dies so quickly, you'll probably never get to the point where procs would occur at a normal rate.

That seems sensible, yeah. I hadn't thought of that.

Also, it's pretty obvious that the changes to Incinerate and Roaring Blaze were to help close the gap between Roaring Blaze and Backdraft. Previously there was almost no reason to ever spec into Backdraft, and judging by the updated AMR sims they're now much closer (though RB still pulls ahead).

That's my read on it too. For me personally, I'll be glad if they're close-ish because I like Backdraft and am not a huge fan of RB.

[Turturin the Warlock]

That seems sensible, yeah. I hadn't thought of that.


That's my read on it too. For me personally, I'll be glad if they're close-ish because I like Backdraft and am not a huge fan of RB.

Yeah, it's sensible for them to balance the talents, but hopefully they realize that the net effect of these changes is still a 7-10% nerf on Single target. I mean, that's really not ok given where destro was prior to the nerfs. Maybe the set bonus would have made us just too ridiculous, it's possible, I don't think we know as they were never available on beta. They do need to do something to help us when we can't cleave now though.

Buffing portals is a possibility. Buffing the imp is a possibility. buffing CDF is a possibility. I think they still have room to buff incinerate a little more as well.

The first three of those don't help our cleave at all, which Im guessing is a little bit of a concern (although they haven't touched windwalker yet so who the fuck knows).

[Orwell7]

What baffles me is that Backdraft has a 5 sec duration, reduced by haste. (!)
Which other spec has to deal with talents that are forced to not scale at all? I mean.. backdraft was 3 incin / 1 chaos bolt, and we were fine, but why change to a duration-based talent if the net result is the same?

[bio347]

What baffles me is that Backdraft has a 5 sec duration, reduced by haste. (!)
Which other spec has to deal with talents that are forced to not scale at all? I mean.. backdraft was 3 incin / 1 chaos bolt, and we were fine, but why change to a duration-based talent if the net result is the same?

I would guess it's because Conflag's cooldown scales with haste now. So more haste doesn't mean more spells in backdraft, it just means more instances of backdraft period.

[Turturin the Warlock]

I would guess it's because Conflag's cooldown scales with haste now. So more haste doesn't mean more spells in backdraft, it just means more instances of backdraft period.

You're not wrong and I suspect that's part of it, but my sense is the primary driving reason was they didn't want haste breakpoints being a thing.

[Lucrece]

I'm still perplexed as to why our cooldowns, be it doomguard or grimoire of service cost a damn soul shard to begin with.

[Deleted]

You're not wrong and I suspect that's part of it, but my sense is the primary driving reason was they didn't want haste breakpoints being a thing.

The official reason given for that was that they didn't want haste to change the "rhythm of the spec", which, in essence, is just an artsy way of saying "we don't want breakpoints".

[Orwell7]

That's nice, but why is Rune of Power a contant 10 seconds? One more fireball/pyroblast is going to get them haste breakpoints. Oh the irony

[Tabrotar]

That's nice, but why is Rune of Power a contant 10 seconds? One more fireball/pyroblast is going to get them haste breakpoints. Oh the irony

Do we even need to ask by now? Mages... nothing more to say here.
Blizz fav since classic.

[Uzkin]

Also, fury warrior Enrage has a constant duration. For a short while it was reduced by haste but Blizz quickly agreed with the warriors that it felt bad, and Enrage was made constant-duration. Enrage is activated by Bloodthirst crits, and the cooldown of Bloodthirst is reduced by haste.

If Backdraft had a constant duration, it would work the same way as Enrage. And it would also make the talent more competitive with Roaring Blaze without having to massively nerf the latter.

[bio347]

That's nice, but why is Rune of Power a contant 10 seconds? One more fireball/pyroblast is going to get them haste breakpoints. Oh the irony

Why is any cooldown ever a constant duration? Perhaps the answer is because it's not just one thing!

Also, fury warrior Enrage has a constant duration. For a short while it was reduced by haste but Blizz quickly agreed with the warriors that it felt bad, and Enrage was made constant-duration. Enrage is activated by Bloodthirst crits, and the cooldown of Bloodthirst is reduced by haste.

It's entirely possible that when people actually start picking the talent and giving feedback on it, it could change. It's also possible that it might not, because one mechanic is opt-in and the other is core to the spec... And as we know *coughamantapcough* opt-in things are allowed to be different or "unpleasant".

[Turturin the Warlock]

The unfortunate part is that I (and others) posted feedback on all these Backdraft and roaring blaze issues within the first two weeks after destros release

So they had the feedback for months and sat on it until the single change today

[bio347]

Oh, for sure. I think, though, that no matter how intelligent or correct the feedback of a couple people can be, there's something to be said for massive amounts of feedback generated from the live game. Fury's Enrage and, recently, Subtlety's Shadow Dance are clear examples of that.