Anyone else think VDH rotation (and DH rotation in general) is a bit boring?

[Saverem]

First of all, I know that their skill set aren't complete due to talent tree only offering first 2 rows.

What I'm referring to is their core rotation, which revolves around spamming Shear to generate Pain and then using stored pain on Demon Spikes for DR or Soul Cleave for damage/heals.

It feels sort of like a poor man's Rage bar. Unlike the Warrior that has several abilities that give them different amounts of Rage as well as their melee attacks and/or being hit, the DH only has 1 real ability, Shear. They can also use Immo that gives them 20, but is on a 15s CD (and Fellblade if they get that talent) and it actually takes weight away from it because we'll be using that ability whenever it comes off CD whether we're fighting 1 target or 20 simply because of the Pain if gives. It's not intuitive or fun.

It's a very VERY plain and mediocre resource system. Was hoping we could get a 2 level resource system like DK's RP and Runes, Monk's Energy and Chi, Ele's Mana and Maelstrom, Rogue's Energy and CP, etc.



Havoc suffers from same problem, but at least the random amount of Fury DB generates makes it for a bit more fun and intuitive then just a static 10 Pain gain that Shear offers.

[jackofwind]

It's an easy mix between rage and energy, and that's the way it's intended.

DH's are designed to be relatively easy to play, as confirmed by Blizzard. You don't roll one for rotation complexity.

[Saverem]

It's an easy mix between rage and energy, and that's the way it's intended.

DH's are designed to be relatively easy to play, as confirmed by Blizzard. You don't roll one for rotation complexity.

It doesn't really have to be complex to be fun. Look at Warriors. Their rage system is pretty simple, but the abilities make it fun.

[jackofwind]

It doesn't really have to be complex to be fun. Look at Warriors. Their rage system is pretty simple, but the abilities make it fun.

The Rage system is more complex and nuanced than the Pain system though - there's only so much you can do to provide complexity when the resource itself is designed to be extremely simple. Rage was never designed to be simple, it only sort of appears to be on the surface. Both Fury and Pain were actually designed to be simple.

Besides, most Warriors who you see talking these days seem to disagree with you regarding their class still being fun since its been pruned.

[Huntaer]

Easy to learn, hard to master

[Saverem]

Easy to learn, hard to master

How so hard to master? Seems pretty straight forward to me. DS for DR and SC for healing back up. Fiery Brand and Meta is their OH SHIT CD, however Brand is on a relatively short CD so you can use it more liberally. Spell Ward for when spell damage is inc. Sigils for utility. Fiery Sigil right now is pretty shit. Even with 3 targets I'd rather use the GCD on a sheer for pain/soul frags. They need to buff that Sigil.

All of their abilities seem pretty straight forward.

[Deleted]

It's straightforward enough that you have it wrong regarding Sigil of Flame.

Sarcasm aside, the rotation is indeed soporific by itself, but the gameplay comes from the fact you're squishy as fuck and thus have to time your abilities properly, whereas other tanks might get a bit more rotational complexity but have higher passive DR so their decisions have less impact in the end.

The rotation is spammy and extremely easy by itself but it's the decision making that separates bad and good DH tanks. Particularly once you unlock more of your artifact and some of your defensive abilities can be used offensively.

[Saverem]

It's straightforward enough that you have it wrong regarding Sigil of Flame.

What do I have wrong with it? The damage it does now is beyond garbage. They need to either buff it or add an utility to it. Like bake in Sigil of Misery's utility into it.

[Delimit]

What do I have wrong with it? The damage it does now is beyond garbage. They need to either buff it or add an utility to it. Like bake in Sigil of Misery's utility into it.

The fact that you think it's not worth using on even 3 targets. Even on single target, it does more damage than a Shear since the nerfs. 3 targets, it's not even close.

[Deleted]

Well if by beyond garbage you mean deals more damage than Shear even on single target (let alone 2+), then sure. If you are trying to push DPS you should use it on CD.

And of course, there are situations where you do want pain from Shear instead and will not use it on cd, but that's exactly the kind of decision making I was referring to. Small decisions similar to this here and there, add a pinch of defensive cooldowns used offensively here, some better demon spikes timing there, and you'll get the difference between good and great DHs.

[Saverem]

The fact that you think it's not worth using on even 3 targets. Even on single target, it does more damage than a Shear since the nerfs. 3 targets, it's not even close.

Wow, the fact that you even suggested that shows that you don't understand the class. Shear isn't used for the damage (it still does good damage), its main benefit comes from the Pain generation and potential Soul Frag... If you're using flame sigil over Shear on 1 target (hell even 3), you're doing it wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Well if by beyond garbage you mean deals more damage than Shear even on single target (let alone 2+), then sure. If you are trying to push DPS you should use it on CD.

And of course, there are situations where you do want pain from Shear instead and will not use it on cd, but that's exactly the kind of decision making I was referring to. Small decisions similar to this here and there, add a pinch of defensive cooldowns used offensively here, some better demon spikes timing there, and you'll get the difference between good and great DHs.

If you're tanking easy trash, then sure. If you're tanking Mythic+ and need to stay alive, then no. Sheer is better than that sigil.

[Schizoide]

I don't know who Delimit is, but if Mionelol is the Mione then I really, really doubt she has it wrong.

[Sencha]

Easy to learn, hard to master

Hard to master? lol

[Senen]

It doesn't really have to be complex to be fun. Look at Warriors. Their rage system is pretty simple, but the abilities make it fun.

I'm having way more fun with my DH that my warrior, currently. Granted, I have 0 Haste on my gear (bad stat at WoD, best stat at Legion, yay) which makes everything super slow so the extended cd on SS hits me really hard. But yeah, spamming Rev is not really funnier than spamming Shear.

[Saverem]

I'm having way more fun with my DH that my warrior, currently. Granted, I have 0 Haste on my gear (bad stat at WoD, best stat at Legion, yay) which makes everything super slow so the extended cd on SS hits me really hard. But yeah, spamming Rev is not really funnier than spamming Shear.

Umm, you literally can't spam Revenge. Its internal CD is 3s assuming you parry/dodge exactly every 3s, which is impossible and is a perfect example of a fun ability that you don't really know when it's going to refresh, it can be 3s or 4.3s...or 6.7s...or 8s.. all the way up to 9s. It keeps you on your toes more and requires you to be more attentive. Aside from that you still have Shield Slam that can also have its CD refreshed with Devestate. Then you have abilities that play off each other like Shield Block increasing Shield Slam damage and Shield Slam increasing Shield Block duration, etc. None of the DH's abilities mesh like that.

[Senen]

Umm, you literally can't spam Revenge

Dev, not Rev, sorry.

[Saverem]

Dev, not Rev, sorry.

If you have time to use Dev more than twice in a row occasionally, you're doing something wrong. Wars just have too many buttons to press. If anything, they are over-complicated right now.

Only time you should be spamming Dev is when you're not tanking.

[Senen]

Also, yeah, warriors have some interaction with talents. You know, the thing DH don't have right now but that will soon enough make their gameplay more insteresting? Plus, "none of DH abilities mash like that", are you kidding? Soul Cleave value greatly depends on your hp and your soul shards and a lot of DH's choices have to do with that. The choice of talents, the timing for Soul Cleave, for Sigil, for Immo, etc.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Far from boring. In fact, I decided against maining it as my primary alt because of how active and responsive the spec is. The amount of movement is so cool, but it gets to be a bit much leaping every few seconds.
If you are finding it boring, you are likely playing it poorly.
If you are playing it 100 as well, then you don't have a lot of spells from talents to consider.

[Senen]

If you have time to use Dev more than twice in a row occasionally, you're doing something wrong. Wars just have too many buttons to press. If anything, they are over-complicated right now.

Only time you should be spamming Dev is when you're not tanking.

Lol?
SS - Rev - ?? - ?? - ?? - ?? - SS
Granted you might have a SS proc or a Rev proc, but aside from that, you're spamming a lot of Dev to fill those gcd.