Why do Jaina and Genn get so much shit?

[Halyon]

Because Legion maybe? Would you trust the horde if you where in her shoes?

In the face of the Legion there's no other choice if you want to live. Mutual enemy that will just let us kill eachother and then clean up the pieces to invade if we don't cooporate to kick their teeth in. How about that?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Sylvanas does litteraly kill enemy forces, bring them back as forsaken and uses them to attack the enemy in silverpine forest

Doesnt make her the lich king, maybe you should read the arthas book as a reminder what the lich king did.

[Shizari]

Nope. Not again.
I've seen this exact same thread with the exact same arguments multiple times over the course of this single week alone.

Sylvanas wants everything, even other Horde territory, north of the Thandol Span to be Forsaken land and will blight everything in sight until she gets her desire. The only thing she might not go for is Quel'Thalas, and even that is questionable.

Jaina feels like the Horde at this point is completely irredeemable because Blizz clearly gave her borderline personality disorder, why else would she keep going completely bonkers. As a note though, I'd like to point out that in WoD, she still refused to let the Horde in Kirin Tor holdings in Draenor at first, but relents after Khadgar explained the situation, and even then was like "I'll kill you the instant you try anything".

Genn saw the Forsaken lead a Horde sanctioned, genocidal invasion into his kingdom. He knows Sylvanas lies directly to ther members of the Horde ("I won't use the plague. ...is he gone? BOMB EVERYTHING!"), and killed his son (granted the arrow was meant for Genn himself, but still). Gilneas is a nearly completely abandoned lost cause that's teetering on Plaguelands-level fucked up all because of Sylvanas, who he knew was leading the Horde at the Broken Shore, and blames her squarely. (He says "I knew we couldn't trust her" instead of "I knew we couldn't trust them.")

Sylvanas might try to do what's best for the Horde now, but she's still a provenly selfish person wth her own agenda. Jaina is close to same way now. Genn just wants the justice he feels he never got.

[MrTharne]

Jaina gonna go full on crazy mode in 7.2, will make suicide bombing "Kul'Tiras soldiers morph into Horde people" in Alliance cities to create conflict, start attacking Horde with a massive fleet and then...Vol'Jin's Spirit leading Zandalari troops will come save the day and expose her treachery. Jaina will then lose her mind completely and will become the Avatar of Sargeras and we kill her in last raid.

But seriously, she will do some crazy things during Legion to alienate the Alliance against the Horde.

[tru]

So far im so tired of Jaina is ready to mop the floor with the horde but of course the story wrighters will never let that happen. Fuck khadgar and anduin. Would be nice if they let us shape the story in game with choices. Like say if players wanted to follow Jaina they could get more pvp/WPVP content quests or something and those that stayed with the boy king could...go grow some flowers with the druids. Maybe its from a RP stand point but as a warrior I do not accept or follow this new king...Magni should be leader of the aliance at the very least.
Tirion could be the leade.. .o right
Hey maybe they could kill off the royal bloodline and admiral taylor could have a big part.... oh they killed him too in wod

Im sick of being human at this point I will race change just need to decide.

Question how is prophet velen in the priest order hall? THought he got like....fried in the light

[Shibito]

Same as asking why do you alliance fanboys hate Sylvanas and make 5 posts about her a week?

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So far im so tired of Jaina is ready to mop the floor with the horde but of course the story wrighters will never let that happen. Fuck khadgar and anduin. Would be nice if they let us shape the story in game with choices. Like say if players wanted to follow Jaina they could get more pvp/WPVP content quests or something and those that stayed with the boy king could...go grow some flowers with the druids. Maybe its from a RP stand point but as a warrior I do not accept or follow this new king...Magni should be leader of the aliance at the very least.
Tirion could be the leade.. .o right
Hey maybe they could kill off the royal bloodline and admiral taylor could have a big part.... oh they killed him too in wod

Im sick of being human at this point I will race change just need to decide.

Question how is prophet velen in the priest order hall? THought he got like....fried in the light

That was AU Velen our universe velen is beeing bored in Exodar.

[Eucep]

Question how is prophet velen in the priest order hall? THought he got like....fried in the light

Only the Draenor counterpart is gone.

[Halyon]

Yes, we really kicked their teeth in with our cooperation at broken shore didn't we xD

So the better option is totally just to resort to infighting. Gotcha. That'll teach the Legion.

The problem with the Broken Isles was that we ended up being split up and overwhelmed on disadvantaged ground. What could be salvaged, was, that doesn't mean it should devolve into an us vs all of them scenario. Because that'll put all the nails in the coffin immediately.

[Eucep]

So the better option is totally just to resort to infighting. Gotcha. That'll teach the Legion.

The problem with the Broken Isles was that we ended up being split up and overwhelmed on disadvantaged ground. What could be salvaged, was, that doesn't mean it should devolve into an us vs all of them scenario. Because that'll put all the nails in the coffin immediately.

In the end, Blizzard's intend was quite clear with the event. Making sure that there was no call of 'yo we are getting overrun over here too!' just to set everything in place for continued fighting of alliance and horde.

[wonderlust]

Doesnt make her the lich king, maybe you should read the arthas book as a reminder what the lich king did.

She doesn't have to do ALL the things that the Lich King did for a comparison to be made. Just a few of the more iconic ones.

[Halyon]

In the end, Blizzard's intend was quite clear with the event. Making sure that there was no call of 'yo we are getting overrun over here too!' just to set everything in place for continued fighting of alliance and horde.

Silly... And again, it's like nobody's heard of spies.

[Eucep]

Silly... And again, it's like nobody's heard of spies.

Worst part, on horde side it is clear they DO know the alliance opinion, so they do have people giving them that information. SI:7, doing their job as they should like... never.

[Deleted]

While one could relate to their motives, what do you believe most people will think when there's characters attempting to divide your forces in the face of an enemy who left unopposed will destroy the world?

I mean, do you seriously believe the Alliance alone could defeat the Legion?

It does look like they have a better chance than having the horde double-cross them on top of it.

I mean... whats the use of an ally that doesn't communicate/work together with you? It's a concerted assault not a "eff this i'm outta here".

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But at the same time, Germany didn't have a rebellion from the inside. Here's the difference. If Germany had something like that, then the consequences would have been much different. Punishing Germany with the rebellion as the ruling power would have been in poor taste.

The leaders of the Horde did not agree with Garrosh. It doesn't make sense to punish them when they did nothing to Jaina. Garrosh is dead. It's over.

Actually... in the last days there was a general that tried to negotiate a peace contrary to Hitler's orders. He was branded a traitor by Hitler, but there were those that tried to lay off arms in germany. But, of course, there would be no end anymore at that point without Hitler's head.

Also, you say they did not agree, but they didn't very much do anything until he tried to kill vol'jin. They were cool with the bombing of theramore and the raiding of Gilneas.

Anyways, i don't see it as a punishment. The horde as an organization not under Thrall has only brought instability to Azeroth. It's not like the alliance is an offensive force seeking to expand into new territory. The horde is always the invading force. If they disbanded we would have peace.
Though i suppose the game isn't about peace. Regardless Genn and Jaina are justified in their stance.

I only think that this isn't the time to fight the horde, but the legion. But the horde is not a potencial ally force. Not trustworthy. I say let the horde be, though keep an eye out for potencial betrayals and keep fighting the legion.

[Aquinan]

Cause Jaina has been turned from a good character into an emo bitch. (Also massive hypocrite for getting mad @ our retreat on the Broken Shore when she did the same thing in WC3)

[Rilas13]

Idiot or not, Genn is a king. He doesn't "have" a king. Even if Anduin is made the High King for some reason (supreme military commander), the nations of the Alliance are supposed to be sovereign and can listen to him or not if they choose.

I want to pause on this one for a moment. You are entirely right, Genn is really under no legal obligation to do what Anduin wants according to the recent blue posts. "High King" does not demand anything, more of an obligation for the greater good. And there has been a lot of question as to why Anduin is auto appointed to that position. Objectively I would have been tempted to pick Genn or Muradin to that spot, given their experience.

That being said, where is Genn and his people living? Realistically right now he has no kingdom. His ruling land is unoccupied. He is living under the good graces of the Elves and Stormwind. Can we still even call him a king in these circumstances? Maybe if they retake the land one day.

But all I see is a nomadic cursed remnant of a population still alive by the kindness of strangers. He has a lot of balls to use Alliance resources to further personal gain.

[Mehrunes]

Because Horde players are vehemently against anybody who calls the Horde out on their shit and hate consequences, hur hur hur.

[purebalance]

All the time I see people giving Jaina and Genn shit for being "Warmongers", but their reasons for hating the Horde are fairly justified.

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

Genn has his city destroyed and raided by the Forsaken, and his son killed by Sylvanas, with Sylvanas as the new Warchief, I can't imagine he'll want peace with the Horde.

Fairly good reasons. Then you have Sylvanas, who everyone seems to love, who just does whatever, essentially becoming like the Lich King. - "The difference warchief, is that I serve the Horde"

Garrosh who has his little fanclub, who was wrecking havoc because "muh orcish horde". The Horde are much worse for instigating war, yet its Jaiana and Genn who get criticized for holding some pretty justified grudges.

Yeah no, people like you seem to love lying about Sylvannas "becoming the LK" because she isn't and hasn't done anything remotely close. Just stop.

[Friendlyimmolation]

She doesn't have to do ALL the things that the Lich King did for a comparison to be made. Just a few of the more iconic ones.

No mind control, no enslavement, saves people, isn't selfish evil. The biggest common thing between Sylvanas and the Lk are that both are undead, and Both resurrect people into undeath. Major Similarities pretty much end there.

[Deleted]

Jaina gonna go full on crazy mode in 7.2, will make suicide bombing "Kul'Tiras soldiers morph into Horde people" in Alliance cities to create conflict, start attacking Horde with a massive fleet and then...Vol'Jin's Spirit leading Zandalari troops will come save the day and expose her treachery. Jaina will then lose her mind completely and will become the Avatar of Sargeras and we kill her in last raid.

But seriously, she will do some crazy things during Legion to alienate the Alliance against the Horde.

It's not like she needs to. The horde/Sylvanas already did that.

I really doubt she would betray the alliance though.

[Goldielocks]

Also, you say they did not agree, but they didn't very much do anything until he tried to kill vol'jin. They were cool with the bombing of theramore and the raiding of Gilneas.

Anyways, i don't see it as a punishment. The horde as an organization not under Thrall has only brought instability to Azeroth. It's not like the alliance is an offensive force seeking to expand into new territory. The horde is always the invading force. If they disbanded we would have peace.
Though i suppose the game isn't about peace. Regardless Genn and Jaina are justified in their stance.

I'm not saying that the two factions should be allies, because that's against what the core element of this game is about. What I'm saying is that her rage is going overboard and has no justification for it. Genn I can see, because his main enemy is now Warchief. However, the one who was really behind Jaina's suffering is dead.

Again, Jaina going from friendly to the horde to hostile is fine. I wouldn't fraternize with people who stood by while their leader killed many of my loved ones, but its the fact that her steep downward spiral is still defended by fans. The Dalaran purge, and now leaving the council when the Legion would have the entire planet ravaged. This shit is not okay. She should have gotten some peace when Garrosh was killed, not continue to seek revenge on those who weren't directly behind her suffering.