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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Well becoming Warchief makes the rest of the horde her people too, and being able to raise the after they die.

    Also just getting to a position of such power during the biggest invasion is enough to make her change
    She becomes warchief AFTER she has proven herself to be loyal to the Horde. My question is still, why does evil and backstabbing bitch Sylvanas all of a sudden care about loyalty towards the Horde? If she had ulterior motives, like she secretly wanted to take over the Horde, I could understand it, but nothing indicates anything like that. She literally just went insane at the end of War Crimes and now all of a sudden she's a paragon of virtue? There is nothing to explain this.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meridas View Post
    She becomes warchief AFTER she has proven herself to be loyal to the Horde. My question is still, why does evil and backstabbing bitch Sylvanas all of a sudden care about loyalty towards the Horde? If she had ulterior motives, like she secretly wanted to take over the Horde, I could understand it, but nothing indicates anything like that. She literally just went insane at the end of War Crimes and now all of a sudden she's a paragon of virtue? There is nothing to explain this.
    When was she ever evil and backstabbing? She has always served the horde. Her focus until Wotlk was revenge on Arthas, after that it has been the survival of her people but its never been contrary to the broader goals of the horde.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meridas View Post
    She becomes warchief AFTER she has proven herself to be loyal to the Horde. My question is still, why does evil and backstabbing bitch Sylvanas all of a sudden care about loyalty towards the Horde? If she had ulterior motives, like she secretly wanted to take over the Horde, I could understand it, but nothing indicates anything like that. She literally just went insane at the end of War Crimes and now all of a sudden she's a paragon of virtue? There is nothing to explain this.
    We don't see her change before becoming Warchief, she probably called the Valkyr down to get them all out because if the other ones fell she would die too.
    And after the Vol'Jin speech (i dont trust you, you're a backstabber etc,) and him still making her Warchief might've been a turning point for her since she was speechless for some time

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meridas View Post
    Typical fanboy defense. Ad hominems are not gonna make your case.

    Cept I wrote a whole lot more. Reading is hard I guess.

    Might I suggest Hooked on Phonics?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splatter View Post
    When was she ever evil and backstabbing?
    lol
    I can't take you seriously after that

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    Reading is hard I guess.
    More ad hominems. You are apparently not capable of anything else.

  6. #26
    Why do characters need to be so one-dimensional and stuck in their ways? I'm excited to see where they take her character in Legion and as Warchief.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simulacrum View Post
    I hope it's the long-con. She's gonna pretend to be all sane and rational beforePOW!! Another new plague, bitches! Fel-infused! Undeaths demons too!

    then she'll kill everyone and raise them as forsaken and live unhappily ever after in her eternally stagnant kingdom of death until the void lords come eat the universe or whatever
    This is a good story. +1

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meridas View Post
    lol
    I can't take you seriously after that

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    More ad hominems. You are apparently not capable of anything else.
    Kek. More like you have no response or means to counter what I wrote so you go the route of throwing out words you don't understand. Please look up what ad hominem means. It does not mean what you think it means. Also for the sake of charity, I will repost my core points here since back-clicking is apparently a daunting task for you.



    Truth is Sylvanas has extremes she has gone between, and that's characteristic of victims of extreme trauma. I mean she was murdered by Arthas. You could say she's a rape victim on steroids. She's gone through all measure of the stages and almost became the same as her tormentor.

    In the end though she appears (barring whatever her deal with Helya is), to have come to a point where she reclaimed the woman she was, and rejected what she was turned into. In short it looks like she's found some peace with the mental and physical trauma she was subjected to by Arthas. Vol'jin treated her not as a monster but as a individual. How long's it been since someone did that?

    No one in the Horde has done that (not even the Blood Elves), though the Horde has long been a collective of outcasts fighting for survival. Sylvanas has always been the outcast among outcasts, and her actions have been focused thus on protecting her people foremost. Everyone saw the undead in her. Even Vereesa did, and really it was Vereesa's hate of Garrosh and desire to leave the Alliance that made Sylvanas consider that course, and why was that? Pure loneliness. Vereesa got to live. Sylvanas died and was left to figure it out on her own. When she saved Vol'jin, I reckon that he finally saw at the core who, and what she was before Arthas. That Ranger General that fought Arthas and drove him insane with rage.

    He knows she's capable of something more, and it seems so do the spirits.

    I wager coming out of the shadows was Shadow-Hunter speak for:

    "Hey. Screw Arthas. Be yourself again. Become who you really are, not who you make people think you are."

    Might be the start of a redemption story for the Forsaken, and the turning of a corner for Sylvanas as she reclaims who she really is from the murdering Prince that tried to break her and make her his slave. Obviously Blizzard can't and won't delete a playable race. Cope with it Alliance, you are not getting Lordaeron back or High Elves.

  9. #29
    Its called an ass pull. Complete character turn without explanation. Fanboys will defend it with foaming mouths but she won't have the superior character development of Varian and the subsequent sacrifice he made to save others.
    Last edited by Varitok; 2016-08-17 at 12:32 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Why do characters need to be so one-dimensional and stuck in their ways? I'm excited to see where they take her character in Legion and as Warchief.
    The problem isn't necessarily Sylvanas changing, it's that Blizzards writing is god awful.

    Changing Sylvanas from a morally grey character into a "good" character would take lots of character development. But the problem is that Sylvanas seems to be changing into that good character already but has not gotten any of that development. She's just started acting differently seemingly at random, it's nonsensical to the viewer and a sign of bad writing.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibito View Post
    Buhu why do you alliance fanboys hate her so much did she hurt big fag genns feelings?
    really don't think it has anything to do with this at all. if you knew even an ounce of the lore you'd know that she this is incredibly uncharacteristic. In SoO pretty much all the other horde leaders hated her. when you talk to Lor'themar you get a nice earful about her. they have a back and forth in the actual raid as well.

    the trying to kill her sister isn't an exaggeration either, she literally plans to do that and to bring her to the Undercity as a reunion, failing to inform her of that small detail.

    her main shtick is that she is a backstabber.



    blizzard wanting to capitalize on her popularity in this fashion does not make much sense at all. she has never cared about Vol'jin, and I don't think she would start now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Why do characters need to be so one-dimensional and stuck in their ways? I'm excited to see where they take her character in Legion and as Warchief.
    it isn't about being one dimensional, it is about being faithful to the character. when a character is acting so radically different from their their normal selves, it is just bad writing. there was a way to make her warchief, without just blatantly changing her character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danthon View Post
    The problem isn't necessarily Sylvanas changing, it's that Blizzards writing is god awful.

    Changing Sylvanas from a morally grey character into a "good" character would take lots of character development. But the problem is that Sylvanas seems to be changing into that good character already but has not gotten any of that development. She's just started acting differently seemingly at random, it's nonsensical to the viewer and a sign of bad writing.
    very well put

  12. #32
    could be that she was depressed from the whole being undead thing and people considered her gross and evil or not even sylvanas anymore, there arnt many people outside the forsaken faction that go hey shes an individual and not just an undead, they have been making the faction leaders have more to do with her personally so they would have more time to see her character for what it is not just assume what they thought was right, i think maybe voljin making her warchief was a tipping point as it shows she has been fully accepted by the people she thought earlier wouldnt ever do so

  13. #33
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    Why? Because that position has already been filled by Jaina Proudmoore!

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  15. #35
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    She is a bitch. Bitches try to put a lot of toxic substances into whatever they face. When Garrosh said no, she did yes.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Danthon View Post
    Blizzard is pulling a Reverse-Garrosh

    Garrosh wen't from Hotheaded dick to genocidal psychopath with no character development to explain it.

    Now Sylvanas is going from morally grey bitch to paragon of virtue and amazing thoughtful leader, similarly lacking in development.
    Guess you didn't play Cataclysm with that quest in the Stonetalon Mountains and the druid school and the mana-bomb where Garry covers it all up by acting high and mighty and killing the general that revealed his trump card before Garry could use it to better effectiveness eh?

    Anyway, Sylvanas has never had anyone trust her before outside of her own faction and even then she's been subject to an attempted coup and is pretty much just in charge because she's the meanest of the heap. For the broken shore she was treated as an equal by not only the Horde but the Alliance, this made her feel back to her old self and the choices she made were the ones for the long-term survival of the Horde itself.

  17. #37
    Jaina also seemed to calm down in the book, not sure if that aspect of her character stuck either

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Danthon View Post
    The problem isn't necessarily Sylvanas changing, it's that Blizzards writing is god awful.

    Changing Sylvanas from a morally grey character into a "good" character would take lots of character development. But the problem is that Sylvanas seems to be changing into that good character already but has not gotten any of that development. She's just started acting differently seemingly at random, it's nonsensical to the viewer and a sign of bad writing.
    And yet I'm fairly certain, that she hasn't changed all that much. Her actions on the Broken Shore and during the funeral, PROBABLY were just reactions to the situations at hand. Having her react in the exact same, predictable way in every single situation, even in such a dire one like @ the Broken Shore, would be one-dimensional.

  19. #39
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    Sylvanas as warchief is the best thing Blizz ever did with the lore. I'm going to be really pissed if they turn her raid boss.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Anyway, Sylvanas has never had anyone trust her before outside of her own faction and even then she's been subject to an attempted coup and is pretty much just in charge because she's the meanest of the heap. For the broken shore she was treated as an equal by not only the Horde but the Alliance, this made her feel back to her old self and the choices she made were the ones for the long-term survival of the Horde itself.
    Yep, that's the impression I get as well.

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