Why do Jaina and Genn get so much shit?

[Deleted]

Cause Jaina has been turned from a good character into an emo bitch. (Also massive hypocrite for getting mad @ our retreat on the Broken Shore when she did the same thing in WC3)

Stop the BS. In warcraft 3 that was part of the plan, in the broken shore it wasn't.

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I'm not saying that the two factions should be allies, because that's against what the core element of this game is about. What I'm saying is that her rage is going overboard and has no justification for it. Genn I can see, because his main enemy is now Warchief. However, the one who was really behind Jaina's suffering is dead.

Again, Jaina going from friendly to the horde to hostile is fine. I wouldn't fraternize with people who stood by while their leader killed many of my loved ones, but its the fact that her steep downward spiral is still defended by fans. The Dalaran purge, and now leaving the council when the Legion would have the entire planet ravaged. This shit is not okay. She should have gotten some peace when Garrosh was killed, not continue to seek revenge on those who weren't directly behind her suffering.

As i said on another post, i don't think this is the time to fight the horde. It is unfortunate that she thinks that way.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's not like she needs to. The horde/Sylvanas already did that.

I really doubt she would betray the alliance though.

If she turned against the alliance. I would probably quit the game. I can't handle that amount of stupid.

[A dot Ham]

All the time I see people giving Jaina and Genn shit for being "Warmongers", but their reasons for hating the Horde are fairly justified.

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

Genn has his city destroyed and raided by the Forsaken, and his son killed by Sylvanas, with Sylvanas as the new Warchief, I can't imagine he'll want peace with the Horde.

Fairly good reasons. Then you have Sylvanas, who everyone seems to love, who just does whatever, essentially becoming like the Lich King. - "The difference warchief, is that I serve the Horde"

Garrosh who has his little fanclub, who was wrecking havoc because "muh orcish horde". The Horde are much worse for instigating war, yet its Jaiana and Genn who get criticized for holding some pretty justified grudges.

Honestly polar characters make for much more interesting characters. If the warmongers go away, the conflict between alliance and horde goes away, the reason for us to legitimately PvP goes away, and the game dies. We need these characters.

[Goldielocks]

As i said on another post, i don't think this is the time to fight the horde. It is unfortunate that she thinks that way.

If it were me, I'd have Jaina go through the motions about where her allegiances lie during the course of this expansion. Less angry, and more confused. Allow the Horde to show her that they're not all bad and maybe it'll go somewhere.

I really liked Jaina as a character. She was a breath of fresh air during Wrath for me, when everyone would rather fucking kill each other. Varian was beyond annoying back then, and it was pretty cool to see him getting along with Sylvanas. I know this isn't World of Carebears, but hey, something different once and awhile is good.

[Deleted]

If it were me, I'd have Jaina go through the motions about where her allegiances lie during the course of this expansion. Less angry, and more confused. Allow the Horde to show her that they're not all bad and maybe it'll go somewhere.

I really liked Jaina as a character. She was a breath of fresh air during Wrath for me, when everyone would rather fucking kill each other. Varian was beyond annoying back then, and it was pretty cool to see him getting along with Sylvanas. I know this isn't World of Carebears, but hey, something different once and awhile is good.

It would be good to see, but i think that depends more on the actions of the horde characters. She still has a conection to Thrall... so, maybe. Maybe... if Thrall becomes warchief again.

[Goldielocks]

It would be good to see, but i think that depends more on the actions of the horde characters. She still has a conection to Thrall... so, maybe. Maybe... if Thrall becomes warchief again.

Thrall has his own shit to worry about lol (which by the way, that whole storyline during Legion doesn't make much sense to me either). Also not to mention the fanbase is tired of him being a savior. I don't hate him, but what can ya do.

[Aquinan]

Stop the BS. In warcraft 3 that was part of the plan, in the broken shore it wasn't.

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As i said on another post, i don't think this is the time to fight the horde. It is unfortunate that she thinks that way.

You're the one purporting the bullshit.

[lockybalboa]

Nobody wants to play ugly ass werewolves on the horde...

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They lost the majority of their fighting force...

Yes the horde that eventually were able to break away from garrosh and actively helped fight him did not get crucified afterwords.

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Nothing is wrong with her being mad at garrosh's horde that died for doing what it did.
But trying to fight the horde that was a splinter faction and ended up fighting him while the legion is invading is stupid.
Do we kill the uncorrupt black drakes? I mean they are still part of the black dragon flight and waay higher % of black drakes were evil than everything else
Did we kill all the blue drakes?
Do we kill the dark iron dwarves?

no nobody cares the war is fucking over

Some fanboy was defending the Horde's unprovoked assaults and whining about Jaina getting angry for getting her home destroyed and hence my reply. I have no idea why are you bringing the drakes and dwarves into this. Yes war is over, but you can't blame Jaina for distrusting the Horde after all that has happened. Fighting who again when the legion is around? Your response makes no sense.

[Deleted]

Thrall has his own shit to worry about lol (which by the way, that whole storyline during Legion doesn't make much sense to me either). Also not to mention the fanbase is tired of him being a savior. I don't hate him, but what can ya do.

I think everyone is tired because he was really bad at beeing a savior. Maybe going back to what he was is the way forward. But meh... we'll see what happens.

[shaunika123]

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

except the rest of the horde (mainly baine and voljin) did everything they could to prevent it barring outright treason

Genn has his city destroyed and raided by the Forsaken, and his son killed by Sylvanas, with Sylvanas as the new Warchief, I can't imagine he'll want peace with the Horde.

it was gilneas that invaded horde territory first you know

Fairly good reasons. Then you have Sylvanas, who everyone seems to love, who just does whatever, essentially becoming like the Lich King. - "The difference warchief, is that I serve the Horde"

she doesnt just "do whatever", all she wants is her people's survival, and when she resses gilnean people those are basically prisoners of war.

Garrosh who has his little fanclub, who was wrecking havoc because "muh orcish horde". The Horde are much worse for instigating war, yet its Jaiana and Genn who get criticized for holding some pretty justified grudges.

anyone defending garrosh is dumb, but jaina already made her peace at the end of war crimes, and realized that not all of the horde is bad, after seeing baine. she said she wouldnt be the same but she wont actively seek conflict either, and then she just throws a hissy fit and ragequits when they want to invite the horde back into dalaran, which is a totally reasonable thing, and post war crimes jaina shouldve agreed to it, or at the very least wouldnt have ragequit after being outvoted.

[Kallisto]

Some fanboy was defending the Horde's unprovoked assaults and whining about Jaina getting angry for getting her home destroyed and hence my reply. I have no idea why are you bringing the drakes and dwarves into this. Yes war is over, but you can't blame Jaina for distrusting the Horde after all that has happened. Fighting who again when the legion is around? Your response makes no sense.

Unprovoked? Is Theramore attacking Crossroads, Durotar and other areas around barrens all before the big Horde assault into Ashenvale not a provocation now?

[DarthMonk79]

Because the alliance (ie her) were using theramore as an invasion point into horde lands. If she kept to herself I doubt garrosh would have done anything. But she invaded horde land so garrosh did the right thing and cut the alliance supply line.

He could have let the civilian's leave though, or hey how about just bombing the port and mining the waters so the Alliance couldn't bring in their ships to a safe port. Instead, he bombed and cratered an entire keep, with civilian housing and non-combatants in it. Also the reason Jaina has probably gone off the deep end. She tried to portal out as much people as she could when the mana-bomb went off. So she was magically connected to what was around her when it got destroyed. It probably fried her brain and she's a few screws short because of it now. Also a little thing called PTSD.. as stated she was connected magically to everything around her, thus when all the people got destroyed by a magical bomb, she felt it. It burned into her brain, soul, whatever you want to call it. Also shows what Garrosh was thinking. I mean why not hit the place with a regular bomb, no, he used a mana-bomb knowing that the city's ruler being a magical being could not stop it or even slow it down to save people. He was aiming to not only destroy the city and its people but its leader as well. You know, one of the few leaders that wasn't all "kill the horde" yes she let troops use her docks, she was neutral but she was still human. She tells the human kingdoms "NO" and it comes off as her siding with the Horde, so she was stuck in no-man's land. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. As for Genn, he witnessed his city and people including his son bombed, killed, melted by a plague pretty much making his lands unlivable for his people. Leading this whole disaster was Sylvannas. So why should he ever trust her, when everything she's shown is evil. She attacks his kingdom, attacks Hillsbrad, and other places.
All the lines are pretty much set, yet its mostly the Horde side that comes away as aggressors. I mean, if Jaina was considered neutral and the Horde needed lumber for housing and supplies and such, why not send a envoy to Jaina and she if she would talk to the NElves about some considerations for lumber, or maybe have them use their nature magic to help the woods in Horde lands grow bigger and faster, No instead the horde start attacking lands all around them that aren't theirs. So once again, why should those two ever feel a need to trust the Horde????

You can say all you want about the Legion being the bigger enemy. They are, but as much as people talk about what they would do in their stead. History has shown in both Real Life and in Game lore that people react differently and in game life the Horde faction lately hasn't shown to much in terms of why it should be all "hugs and kisses" between the two sides. I would say that eventually their could be true peace, but there is still a whole generation or two that are still alive from the first Horde Invasion, now we got a new generation of people in Azeroth that survived the "evil" of Garrosh. So as much as people would want to set aside their differences, the mob mentality has a harsh memory filled with pain, death and lies.

[xChurch]

Because people place higher standards on Lore characters than they do actual people.

[Lord Havik]

Perhaps players don't like em' because Jaina has become a psychopathic bitch, and Genn pees all over the couch and chews up their slippers.

Still, both are better than Anduin 'Discount Neville Chamberlain' Wrynn.

[Koreche]

Yes, he built a giant wall after he told the other to kill the lethargic orcs and they refused so he said "well you'll see how they'll rise one day and start creating issues, but Gilneas won't wait for you like you fools"(not his actual words, but basically this is what he did) and built a wall . And guess what? He was right. Garrosh proved it. The Iron Horde proved it. Orcs didn't have to drink demon blood to be a race of warmongering barbarians.
Genn was right.

Guess we should kill all the humans too. The scarlet crusade wanted to kill both alliance and horde so obviously ALL humans must be warmongering barbarians.
The cult of the damned is another expample of humans being just as corrupt as orcs. i mean both of those are mainly humans.
Just like orcs there are more eredar than draenei so obviously it means draenei are as a whole a corrupt race of evil that should all be killed. The orcs were right to create the path of glory huh? I mean they were just doing what genn thought was right and killing an entire race instead of taking prisoners.
Most night elves joined azshara and became naga. its only a matter of time until the ones who actively fought against it also become evil so we should just kill them all before they get the chance.

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ITT People against Genn and Jaina giving well reasoned responses and people defending going LOLOLOL Horde fanbois get rekt.

Yes basically
This is how literally every patch in wow is. Alliance players for some reason always have a shit storm when anything happens and only see them as always doing good and if 1 horde character does anything out of line they blame the entire horde and use it as an example of how evil the entire horde is.

I dont ever remember seeing horde posting how evil alliance is after twilight father tried to help destroy the world
I dont remember seeing horde posting to kill every night elf after firelands and majordomo staghelm and how he tried to kill hamuul.

[Charge me Doctor]

Because when you are a racial leader you should piss off with your personal issues. "ugh my home city got nuked i want to destroy the world", yeah that's why you let Varian die instead of TPing everyone away like you usually do yourself, Jaina.
"ugh my son got killed", that's what you get for letting lordaeron fall while sitting behind a giant wall and flipping everyone over.

In fact, i would just let these characters chillax on some sort of an island instead of letting them rule anything besides their own asses.

Silvanas is just a power hungry bitch who appears to have her jimmies rustled, and shit like "oh well i've got all that power and everyone rely on me maybe i have to do something good instead of my evil plans of grabbing everything for the forsaken?" is what i expect from her in legion, unless she'll get jumped by jaina and genn and she just becomes jaina 2.0

[Deleted]

When a character turns stronger and wiser due to hardships, we call it character development.

When a character gets more jaded and pragmatic and renounces some of their past ideals due to hardships, we call it bad writing.

Jaina and Genn are that bad writing. The extreme hardships of losing their family, their land, their friends and family to a clear enemy should have only turned them into better, kinder, more loving people. Just look what happened with Sylvanas after a similar ordeal.

I would not agree such hardship would turn them into "better, kinder, more loving people" Jaina was all of that before. she even god damn it helped kill her own father, for the better of the innocent people.
SHE help kill her own people(by not helping them) when ogrimmar was founded. She have worked harder then ANYONE to build peace, the entire reason varian was abducted was becauce she wanted to make a peace treathy with the Horde.

No matter how much she tried, in the end, Thrall gave to much power to a orc that wanted the "old ways" of the horde. she lost everything, and just there after, the hordes(yes yes garros) horde miss used dalarans neutrality and used the alliance portals to steal that one Bell.

She have been burned to many times by her own neutrality, and dont want to see the death of the alliance becauce she seen what it does when you just allowe to be trampled

[Koreche]

Because when you are a racial leader you should piss off with your personal issues. "ugh my home city got nuked i want to destroy the world", yeah that's why you let Varian die instead of TPing everyone away like you usually do yourself, Jaina.
"ugh my son got killed", that's what you get for letting lordaeron fall while sitting behind a giant wall and flipping everyone over.

no no no
He built the wall because the alliance didnt kill every orc. its not his fault lordaeron fell, they should have listened and commit genocide.

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I would not agree such hardship would turn them into "better, kinder, more loving people" Jaina was all of that before. she even god damn it helped kill her own father, for the better of the innocent people.
SHE help kill her own people(by not helping them) when ogrimmar was founded. She have worked harder then ANYONE to build peace, the entire reason varian was abducted was becauce she wanted to make a peace treathy with the Horde.

No matter how much she tried, in the end, Thrall gave to much power to a orc that wanted the "old ways" of the horde. she lost everything, and just there after, the hordes(yes yes garros) horde miss used dalarans neutrality and used the alliance portals to steal that one Bell.

She have been burned to many times by her own neutrality, and dont want to see the death of the alliance becauce she seen what it does when you just allowe to be trampled

Yes the horde used dalarans neutrality to help the horde like jaina used theramore's neutrality to help the alliance and shes mad about it. hypocritical.
And the most hypocritical part is she tried to do something worse than garrosh in retaliation... She wanted to kill the innocents while garrosh did not and even worse the alliance players were all for jaina flooding org and killing civilians that had no idea what garrosh was doing. L O L

(inb4 im a horde fanboy for saying flooding org would have been worse since im taking into account jaina would have killed civilians while garrosh did not)
Yes garrosh and the kor'kron who were at fault are all dead and the horde is a rag tag group of shitters because they lost their strongest fighting force. But lets not stop there kill them all instead of focus on the legion.
You know who else promoted peace? Thrall but he gets a bunch of shit because he "KSed" a big bad...lol
The pandaren were also for peace. And they still are and pandaria got fucked WAAAY harder than lol theramore's nuke. The entire continent got fucked because of the alliance and horde but you dont see them trying to kill everyone in the alliance or horde. They recognize garrosh was at the center and is dealt with the end.

And for the last time its hard to dethrone a tyrant its not a simple task. If you guys cant comprehend that just stop posting because its absolutely retarded to try to blame anyone other than thrall, garrosh and the kor'kron for what garrosh and the kor'kron did and its been shown in the history of earth time and time again. You do not simply say "hay i dislike your ideals please give up your authority" to a tyrant to get rid of them. You NEEED outside help because for the most part if you try to rally people from within you end up being reported and killed before you can get a big enough resistance to do anything.

[Koreche]

We're not? Oh, I didn't know we're friends with the Scarlet Crusade now. They were pushed to extreme actions by a dreadlord and a few others, but they were many, yet we keep murdering them.

Also conveniently ignored the part about the twilight father.
How about the defias.
Majordomo
kel'thuzad who was part of kirin tor

Bring up the scarlet crusade saying they are not part of your faction but insist garrosh = the current horde even though the current horde actively fought against him.

But humans are A-OK guys because they never actually succeed in causing damage like garrosh. Well except the ones that joined the cult of the damned and destroyed lordaeron and silvermoon.

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Some fanboy was defending the Horde's unprovoked assaults and whining about Jaina getting angry for getting her home destroyed and hence my reply. I have no idea why are you bringing the drakes and dwarves into this. Yes war is over, but you can't blame Jaina for distrusting the Horde after all that has happened. Fighting who again when the legion is around? Your response makes no sense.

My response makes perfect sense.
Jaina, genn and alliance players want to kill all the horde and people are wondering why people dislike them.
Im saying the current horde breaking off the true horde and attacking garrosh is no different than The drakes or dark iron or any other race that had a powerful enemy to the alliance and horde but is not extinct because nobody asks to kill every single member of a race that does bad shit except the orcs.

The blue drakes were attacking us in northrend so we killed the ones allied to malygos. They were prepared to kill anyone who used magic. That is worse than garrosh but Nobody is asking to kill senegos in asuna because he had nothing to do with it and we actually fight alongside them without any problems whatsoever even though the last time we saw them they were all about "KILL ALL MORTALS". yet for some reason its OK for genn to see the entire horde as a bunch of warmongering garroshes and he wants to fight the horde instead of the legion which is stupid.

Its like we cant make accurate comparisons to other events that happen in azeroth or the real world.

dark iron summoned ragnaros and the alliance even went in and killed their leader but now they chill in ironforge like who gives a shit. They are at fault for burning the redridge mountains and making 3 zones wastelands but nobody is asking for all dark irons to be killed. Just orcs because garrosh and the kor'kron or the iron horde obviously speak for all orcs.

Nobody saw wrathion and said A BLACK DRAKE KILL IT NOW OR IM GOING TO BUILD A WALL AND NEVER TALK TO YOU AGAIN UNTIL I NEED YOU TO SAVE ME! But genn is allowed to do just that when the orcs were not all killed... they were at least imprisoned but we have no idea where wrathion even is.

[Lumineus]

She wanted to kill the innocents while garrosh did not and even worse the alliance players were all for jaina flooding org and killing civilians that had no idea what garrosh was doing. L O L

(inb4 im a horde fanboy for saying flooding org would have been worse since im taking into account jaina would have killed civilians while garrosh did not)

Wat? Sure he did. He just had them tortured and enslaved first. Where did you (and the three or four other Horde who posted similar) think they came from when you saw them in SoO? Do you remember the very first cinematic of the expansion, where Nazgrim is buttering up Garrosh with "victories off the coast of Tanaris?" He never had any intention of allowing the civilians to escape.