What's up with Jainas attitude towards the horde all of the sudden?(Invasion Spoiler)

[TheRickyB]

what do you expect ? Goel got shoot by 3 spaceships, Baine got nucked by a RND Demon and Voljin got stabed... Sylvanas was the only one left in a corner lol ....

they couldnt beat a few named bosses and instead thought talking guldan to death would work. they are Alliance what can you expect from them?

Horde sounded the Retreat to everyone, so of course the Alliance, who stood there doing nothing at all, try to pretend like they we're totes so close to beating them if only the horde wasnt cowards!!!

they need any excuse to justify their complete Uselessness at the Broken Shore.

[Galathir]

Time that with losing Arthas and every chance she had at new love with Kalecgos (not sure if that was only in Tides of War or if it was in game)

In War Crimes they were together. Sure, they had several disagreements about the Horde but at the end I was hoping Jaina got over her hatred a bit.
Guess I was wrong or book canon just doesn't reflect in the game, like Goel's name.

[Harthmut]

Jaina will get corrupted by dreadlords and she will be a raid boss in the final legion raid. Calling it.

[baskev]

I don't know all of the lore but I clearly remember how she was ok with helping the horde against her father and ultimately being the reason why her father died. I always liked her and her views on everything and I thought she would be the first person on Alliance side who would try and figure out what happened and why horde abandoned them.

Instead she acted all hissy-pissy like, saying that she now hates the horde and wants revenge. I really didn't get that part. I expected a lot more from her.

Lol you answered your own question in part.

- Yes she helped the hord with her farther. But still it was her farther.
- Then some minor stuff happened to her.
- Then garrosh nuked theramore. She asked for help, but was met with warm luke response from her peers. (they came but they wanted to play it save not start a war). They want stay neutral, but then she finds out the blood elfs in dalaran helped the hord. But where not punished by the kirin tor.
- Then she loose her second love ( varian) because the hord retreated to survive ( in her eye's atleast). And to add insult to injury, they allowed the hord back into the kirin tor.

She has all the right to be pissed at them. If you read all the ingame stuff and warcraft 3 stuff. You see that eachtime she helps the hord she pays the price in their betrayal for it. She has been nice to the hord. But they broken her trust time and time again.

[3vyan]

I don't really understand the people who proclaimed it bad writing because it's a character that is going the opposite route of redemption.

Sometimes people grow 'worse' or less 'virtuous', sometimes they become better. It's really not right to claim that all characters that go from good to worse are bad writing.

Maybe the death of her father has been on her mind for a long time, perhaps she feels guilt because of it. I'm quite alright with Jaina becoming a new 'opponent' of sorts by joining Kul'Tiras and using it as a war machine against the Horde (and Alliance). In Warcraft a lot of good guys sometimes become bad guys, or rather, join a faction that doesn't completely see eye to eye with the Horde or Alliance.

It's bad writing because in every book she gets redeemed, only to go the opposite direction in the game.
She's like a boomerang going back and forth between warmongering horde hater to redeemed character at peace with what has happened and moving forward

[baskev]

When?
When did the Horde break her trust?
Was it when we attacked her city after she attacked us?
Or when Garrosh' spy used a Dalaran portal to find an artifact she helped to hide from the Horde?

>>> attack your city?? Theramore happend first!!!
And you talking about the devine bell?? that was kept in darnasus ( a allaince city). With despite being neutral the blood elfs in the kirin tor told garrosh about. You know, that mass murdering S.o.B.

But read my post.
She helped the hord several times.
read http://wow.gamepedia.com/Jaina_Proudmoore

all is in there.

[baskev]

No, it happened after the Alliance used Theramore to attack the Horde.
Theramore was revenge.

And who helped the Alliance to keep this stolen artifact from the Horde?

She helped the Horde, yes.
She also helped the Alliance against the Horde, multiple times.

So when was she betrayed?

Theramore was the first act of war. get your facts straight. Hell cow boy even warned us about it. Go'el was asked to talk to garrosh stop him.

......A artifact that was stolen from pandarans to use as weapon. witch was safe kept by the nightelfs...( so nothing to do with ms proudmoore)

sigh troll.........

You lack insight do you? if you think in her shoe's, she helped hord ALLOT, but each time they did something terrible to them.
And the betrayed was about her ALLIANCE friends. Who keep giving the hord the bennift of the doubt. ( again how she thinks if you read all her cannon lore) .

[Deleted]

who cares... like really.. just kill her off already.

[mizeri]

sylvanas should have sent some vakyrs to the allie airship and set it on fire and be with another alliance leader

[Sentynel]

so much for lok'tar ogar lol

Victory or death, not Victory *today* or death :P

[Dellis0991]

Jaina lost quite a bit due to the horde, the ironic thing is, now that she has suffered true loss, like her father before her she has become very much like him.

Not really she calmed down a lot but of course she still don't trust the horde in war crimes novel she regain her sanity thanks to the blue dragon bf, hopefully she doesn't become a raid boss.

[baskev]

The Alliance was all over the Barrens.
They literally say it happened before the Cataclysm.

Yeah, Night Elves keeping things safe..
And if you'd actually read quest-text and such, you'd find that Jaina helped with the defenses.

Each time they did something, it's either a single guy going rogue or Jaina asking for it.

Alliance was always there. But did they ever kill a whole town???
Yes magical defense. So a big doomsday weapon would not be in the hands of someone Voljin ( rip ) was even not sure about and starting to doubt...like most people did.

First off nice side step to my main point ( not addressing it). Again looking true her eyes ( like i said from the start). With the things we know yes, some small things are different. But from her point of view.

And nope not each time. Every time they doubt her ( again in her eyes!!!!!!!!!!). People get warned by her. She has doubts and what happens...exactly what she predicted ( again...sigh...in her eyes).

Again this are not my feelings about it. The question was why would she be so made. And i gave a answer from her perspective.

[Prothynyas]

i would have purged thunderbluff just like they did theramore .

[Combatbutler]

Not really she calmed down a lot but of course she still don't trust the horde in war crimes novel she regain her sanity thanks to the blue dragon bf, hopefully she doesn't become a raid boss.

You didn't do the broken shore event yet did you?

[Mehrunes]

Theramore was the first act of war. get your facts straight. Hell cow boy even warned us about it. Go'el was asked to talk to garrosh stop him.

How can Theramore be the first act of war when it was the transition between Cata and MoP and the war started in Cata?

......A artifact that was stolen from pandarans to use as weapon. witch was safe kept by the nightelfs...( so nothing to do with ms proudmoore)

It wasn't Pandaren artifact, it wasn't kept by Pandaren, it wasn't hidden by Pandaren. There's nothing Pandaren about it. And it was recovered by the Night Elves, so even if there was any stealing from the Pandaren it would be by the Night Elves. Also, Jaina aided the Night Elves in safeguarding it against the Horde. By using magical traps to imprison or kill Horde members. After she became "neutral" as the leader of the Kirin Tor.

You lack insight do you? if you think in her shoe's, she helped hord ALLOT, but each time they did something terrible to them.
And the betrayed was about her ALLIANCE friends. Who keep giving the hord the bennift of the doubt. ( again how she thinks if you read all her cannon lore) .

She helped them a lot and then invaded their core territory. And Horde doing anything to the rest of the Alliance is rather irrelevant to whether or not they betrayed Jaina.

Alliance was always there. But did they ever kill a whole town???

The only Alliance outpost in the Barrens prior to the Cataclysm was Bael'dun and even that was Alliance intruding on Horde territory. What @Kangodo was talking about was Jaina's troops spreading all over Horde heartlands and attacking shit. Before Theramore.

Yes magical defense. So a big doomsday weapon would not be in the hands of someone Voljin ( rip ) was even not sure about and starting to doubt...like most people did.

Irrelevant. She broke neutrality by aiding the Night Elves. And using Vol'jin as an argument is you shooting yourself in the foot. Regardless of his differences with Garrosh (and by "differences" I mean surviving an assassination attempt), Vol'jin was in favor of Garrosh getting the Divine Bell over the Alliance.

First off nice side step to my main point ( not addressing it). Again looking true her eyes ( like i said from the start). With the things we know yes, some small things are different. But from her point of view.

There is no point of view in which the Horde attacking Theramore after Theramore's troops spread across most important Horde zones like a locust swarm and planned to invade even Orgrimmar itself is not a betrayal. It's logical consequence of events that Jaina brought upon herself.

[Trassk]

After doing the quest to dalaran and the scene with khadgar, I'm just fed up with Jaina.. or I'm just fed up with the awful writing put on her all for the sake of creating cringeworthy false conflict.

That is the only reason now she's the way she is, because blizzard needs a face to the same old false conflict bullshit. There is literally no rational reason for there to be faction conflict right now when the dam legion is invading azeroth, but no, we need that sub plot force hammered into the story, and done so in the most cringy way possible, with Vajaina screaming like a feminazi on tumblr.

"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, RRRAAAUUUGH!!!" What the f**k does that even mean in that rage induced context?

[sheggaro]

Jaina is a massive hypocrite.

Her 'neutral' city was nuked, because she compromised its neutrality by housing Alliance soldiers and using it as a staging ground for the invasion of Horde territory.

Then once again she used another 'neutral' faction and did something pro Alliance with it, prompting the Horde to do the same.

And because the Horde responded in kind after she sided with the Alliance she now hates them.

Basically they butchered her character, the real Jaina died somewhere off-screen, this is Jaina'zar, the Dreadlord.

[baskev]

How can Theramore be the first act of war when it was the transition between Cata and MoP and the war started in Cata?




It wasn't Pandaren artifact, it wasn't kept by Pandaren, it wasn't hidden by Pandaren. There's nothing Pandaren about it. And it was recovered by the Night Elves, so even if there was any stealing from the Pandaren it would be by the Night Elves. Also, Jaina aided the Night Elves in safeguarding it against the Horde. By using magical traps to imprison or kill Horde members. After she became "neutral" as the leader of the Kirin Tor.




She helped them a lot and then invaded their core territory. And Horde doing anything to the rest of the Alliance is rather irrelevant to whether or not they betrayed Jaina.




The only Alliance outpost in the Barrens prior to the Cataclysm was Bael'dun and even that was Alliance intruding on Horde territory. What @Kangodo was talking about was Jaina's troops spreading all over Horde heartlands and attacking shit. Before Theramore.




Irrelevant. She broke neutrality by aiding the Night Elves. And using Vol'jin as an argument is you shooting yourself in the foot. Regardless of his differences with Garrosh (and by "differences" I mean surviving an assassination attempt), Vol'jin was in favor of Garrosh getting the Divine Bell over the Alliance.




There is no point of view in which the Horde attacking Theramore after Theramore's troops spread across most important Horde zones like a locust swarm and planned to invade even Orgrimmar itself is not a betrayal. It's logical consequence of events that Jaina brought upon herself.

1. I did not say it was the first act of war.
2. It was of mogu decent the artifact and it was uncovered in pandaria ( hence being called pandaran :P). And yes she used magical traps to save gaurd it from Garrosh's hord ( like i said before voljin was allready plotting/have doubts).
3. She again did not invade and mass murder people/murder people like the garrosh hord did. I did not talk about what the rest of the alliance.
4. Ill give you that one. But lets talk about all their their ground to try to take since before tbc...ashenvale?!?!?!
5. She was kirin tor trying to save gaurd a powerfull item.

And again you troll 2.0.....This is not 100% what i think ( you guys really need 2 learn 2 read, said this like 3 times allready). This is what she thinks most likely from her perspective ( her point of view). Knowing only what she knows . If you troll atleast troll with the right info and look at what the person before you wrote. And show a little respect by reading the stuff from some one.

So for you and your not so smart friend, this is how i feel about the stuff. ( me as a person, and not a fictional hero p.o.v.)
1. First act of war orcs coming to azoroth and humans and they fight. And in WoW it was when both side's expanded in eachothers zonse.
2. it should have stayed in pandaria with the pandarans.
3. This one is tricky. I think both did allot wrong. But hord still loses this one in my opinion. Just because we did not mass murder people.
4. And yes expanding is bad....and the hord Never did that :P.
5. And feel the same way of this. Pandarans should have kept it them selfs. But i think the nightelfs where the best gaurds for it. By this time she was allready warned by baine about garroshs plans.

have fun trolling see you in 5 days.

[Smallfruitbat]

After doing the quest to dalaran and the scene with khadgar, I'm just fed up with Jaina.. or I'm just fed up with the awful writing put on her all for the sake of creating cringeworthy false conflict.

That is the only reason now she's the way she is, because blizzard needs a face to the same old false conflict bullshit. There is literally no rational reason for there to be faction conflict right now when the dam legion is invading azeroth, but no, we need that sub plot force hammered into the story, and done so in the most cringy way possible, with Vajaina screaming like a feminazi on tumblr.

I think poor Jaina has become Blizzards whipping boy. Much as the ‘Jaina as a Dreadlord’ thing is getting old, it’s actually becoming an appealing theory.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the bombing of Theramore, her reaction was ‘understandable’. I don’t know why the rest of the Council of Six didn’t intervene during the purge of Dalaran but again –I can understand why she did it under the circumstances. Then we have ‘Warcrimes’, she kisses and makes up with Kalecgos, smiles at Thrall and we’re given to understand that she has let go of the hatred and we have ‘our’ Jaina back –maybe a bit less trusting and naïve but she’s moved on.

Then WoD comes along –and this is where I really have a problem with her character development. We’re happily wandering around questing and she pops up with her anti horde rhetoric –seriously, where did that come from?? Then we get the Broken Shore and the Dalaran quests –and again, I’m not commenting on the rights and wrongs but on characterisation. We have one of the most powerful mages on Azeroth, supposedly well-educated and having been in a position of leadership for a long time. What does she do? Sticks her fingers in her ears and sings ‘la la la, I’m not listening’ before throwing her toys out of the pram and storming off; once whilst addressing the King of Stormwind and then again when dealing with her peers

[Deleted]

Sigh. First of all, as an alliance player, I think that the horde have acted more brutish during the years, especially the orcs. Without them, things would have been much better. But everything is not black and white. First of all. You can't blame Jaina for hating the horde. Look at the history.

Now to the most important thing, the cinematics after the broken shore scenario. People are just acting like children. First of all, lets look at the alliance cinematic. Many horde players says that when the horde retreated from the cliff they did it to save their people. And that's true. But the same people also said that Varian had the chance to escape. That's wrong. He sacrificed himself to save the ship and his people. Without that sacrifice, both Varian, the ship and his people who fought would have been dead. He died like a true hero. And now another important part in the cinematic. The NPC characters from the Alliance didn't see what happened at the cliff. They pressed hard and did well against a brutish force. And when they turn to the cliff and see Sylvanas retreating, of course they will think that it's a betrayal from her side. Do I blame the horde? Both yes and no. The retreat killed our king. We had to fight more demons and got cornered. But I do understand why they did ut. After watching the horde cinematic I can understand why she did it. First of all, it was not her call. It was Vol'jins decision. The horde didn't do well and all their leaders (not Sylvanas) were injured. But Jaina and the others do not know what we know.

Conclusion: You can fight all you want, but this is the truth. You can compare Varians death to the Hordes retreat. Both did it to save it's people. Both sides are acting like children in this thread.