[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[Deleted]

Can someone answer me this please.
When our Windfury procs each have a chance to proc Stormbringer is our chance to proc Stormbringer per hit something like:

SBProcChance + WFProcChance * 2(SBProcChance)

and if that's correct doesn't that mean that the value of mastery gets higher the more mastery we have if there are no diminishing returns?

[Darleth]

This is how I feel passives should not be stronger. And Landslide and boulderfist both need nerfed or the other in their tiers need buffed. I really hope blizz isnt done balancing stuff haven't really seen much from them since pre patch launched maybe they are to busy with that stuff for now but who knows.

They've already been nerfed. I'd rather see them buff Hot Hands (and other Talents in that regard) instead of destroying BF, making a whole playstyle completely useless. No thanks.
For the people that dont like the BF playstyle: Windsong is right up your alley. Its fine in its current version and isn't that far behind BF.

Whats the issue with Earthen Spike? its is the damage or the damge per malestrom? would removing the cost make it more desireable?

2 Reasons: it adds an extra cooldown to manage into a spec, that already has to manage buffs and proper uses of procs aswell as ressources. 2nd reason is, it's just not worth it currently, because it does way too little damage, with a rather high maelstrom cost attached and 20 seconds of cooldown - also the damage increase is pretty much "meh".

Words of wisdom! Maybe even remove every active skill and let us only autoattack ... Sounds very interesting...

Why should I take active abilities if passives, mostly no-brainer talents, are much better? I don't follow your way of thinking. Active ones requires more skill to use and should yeld better results if you do it properly and worse if you fuk up. Base logic.

Managing buffs and ressources correctly also requires skill - I'd like to see someone fucking up their buff, proc and ressource management at the same time and still be over 50k+ dps in HFC... good luck with that.

That most of our active talents makes this spec clunky is other thing.

Please... just stop throwing around the word clunky. We're NOT clunky. Not a single one of the talents ARE clunky, besides Sundering because Knock-aside. Everything else works EXACTLY how it should work and it's your choice to play with those talents or not.

The Enhancement specialisation is and always be "press the button on cooldown" + "many cooldowns", otherwise you lose dps. Some of us like this, some doesn't. But you can't really pool any resource and wait for good opportunity, like trinket proc, offensive cd come off cooldown. If you are unlucky you will be spamming lava lash when your trinket proc (Talent like "Removes cooldown from Stormstrike for 2 uses, 3 charges, 1 min recharge" would let you make some smart tricks). What if special add appear and your Stormstrike is on 10 sec cooldown? You become useless with spamming boulderfist and lava lash for 10 seconds if Stormbringer doesn't proc. Awesome.

Then you'd still do enough damage via auto attacks, Boulderfist, refreshing buffs, WF procs (which give a chance to proc stormbringer), activating doom winds and/or wolves and LL/CL. You're making this sound WAY HARDER than it actually is. I would NEVER want to see a talent like that, because THAT would be clunky and basically just mean everyone picks that automatically, because it would net the highest burst in general. No thanks.
Also in regards to always been this and that: Times change. We always had to manage buffs and cooldowns; that didnt change that much actually - the only thing that REALLY changed is, that we're more actively engaged in combat as before, where we had to manage dots (Searing Totem & Flame Shock), Debuffs (mainly SS), Stacks for instant casts (instead of a ressource bar and procs) and cooldowns.

I don't get how people say enha got great talent tree. There are almost no choices for different situations, it just change your playstyle. There are ascendance and aoe tier that can change something. Who wanna take Windsong over Boulderfist? But it may change something a bit.

Because we actually GOT a great talent tree. There are classes with much, MUCH worse talents - dont believe me? Take a look at elemental shamans where every talent plays against another talent - its one of the worst talent trees after reworks. We have some choices. People also underestimate Ascendance, which is GREAT in burst situations, especially now since it finally resets SS again.

Do some of the talents need help? Yes, they do - but I'd rather see them buffing other talents to be on par with the current good talents, instead of just nerfbatting the crap out of all those talents and making them useless.

[Lucrece]

Words of wisdom! Maybe even remove every active skill and let us only autoattack ... Sounds very interesting...

Why should I take active abilities if passives, mostly no-brainer talents, are much better? I don't follow your way of thinking. Active ones requires more skill to use and should yeld better results if you do it properly and worse if you fuk up. Base logic.

That most of our active talents makes this spec clunky is other thing.

The Enhancement specialisation is and always be "press the button on cooldown" + "many cooldowns", otherwise you lose dps. Some of us like this, some doesn't. But you can't really pool any resource and wait for good opportunity, like trinket proc, offensive cd come off cooldown. If you are unlucky you will be spamming lava lash when your trinket proc (Talent like "Removes cooldown from Stormstrike for 2 uses, 3 charges, 1 min recharge" would let you make some smart tricks). What if special add appear and your Stormstrike is on 10 sec cooldown? You become useless with spamming boulderfist and lava lash for 10 seconds if Stormbringer doesn't proc. Awesome.

I don't get how people say enha got great talent tree. There are almost no choices for different situations, it just change your playstyle. There are ascendance and aoe tier that can change something. Who wanna take Windsong over Boulderfist? But it may change something a bit.

Why not erase autoattacks, windfury by your logic?

There's this "Actives make for better gameplay" bandwagon movement. You might as well have a single talent tree choice if you're gonna make actives superior since the expectation is that you learn to play optimally with actives and never use the passives, eliminating all choice.

Boulderfist is no mere passive anyways, you have to manage its stacks so as to not cap during periods of high stormbringer procs or maelstrom generation without capping.

Leave the talents alone. If you want a nightmare rotation, go play a feral druid. 3 short duration buffs to maintain with energy starvation, 2 dots to snapshot with said buffs up that make up the majority of your DPS so if you fail to maintain buffs and snapshots you do shit DPS.

There, you have your "active" spec. Enjoy watching your UI bar 24/7, downloading 2-3 addons to track alongside 2983791762912 weak auras to play your class instead of being able to enjoy a raid encounter because you wanted to handicap yourself with needless hoop jumping.

[Knightlax]

Active abilities don't necessarily need to be better than passive abilities. The strength of active abilities lies in the fact that they can be leveraged to a greater effect in certain situations.

In the case of our tier 1 talents, those are primarily tuned around play style. Boulderfist is not GDC locked, the other two are. While Boulderfist is stronger right now, that may not remain the case. With legendaries in play and as our item levels improve (not to mention the unknown tier set bonus in the future), the other 2 may become stronger. And they may also get some tuning down the road after legion releases.

The problem is not that the other talents in the tier are bad or less effective. Rather, the problem is we simply don't yet know what fights can take advantage of the strengths of the other talents.

[Espeonagetieler]

No, thanks. Boulderfist rotation is far more appealing to me than the alternatives. If you nerf passives so actives are better, you just make them irrelevant and are forced to take the active 24/7.

so instead you are forced to take the passives because the actives are irrelevant? passives should never be better than actives because the benefit of them is that you have less to do.

[Lucrece]

so instead you are forced to take the passives because the actives are irrelevant? passives should never be better than actives because the benefit of them is that you have less to do.

The benefit of the active is you can game them around an encounter. See, we can both play the same game.

Nobody likes their preferred gameplay be marginalized. The answer isn't to nerf talents, but to ask developers to get off their ass and tune them around the 1-2% difference they said they would (which obviously is not the case in many of their broken promises).

[Hivey]

In respect to active vs passive, I was referring to our level 100 talents. The level 15 talents are totally different as they dictate gameplay tempo.

[Deleted]

@Darleth I don't want to say it isn't require skill, it might be harder than it looks on paper and you will have to manage all of these things. The only thing I don't like about enhancement is that we have to use everything on cooldown, or we lose dps. Ok, it's fine to wait 30 seconds to deal with important add or mechanic, but you will lose overall dps. It's still cool, but there could be something that you can control and not just hit when it shine, and wouldn't require you to lose uptime. In my opinion there is a bit too much of rng in the spec, without some interesting use. You can't even pool maelstrom too high, but then it wont give you good dmg on demand, because you need your stormstrike off cd, or you have to use +3 lava lashes instead to make it equal.

I agree, there are specs with much worse talent trees, but there are specs with better as well Better for me, that gives me what I want for different bosses.

Also, I'm not gonna push and require that enhance must be like I want. That;s my old main, mained for many years, if it would be what I desire I will play it, and that would be wonderful. But I will take other class, that I enjoy more with their mechanics. That's all. Nostalgia, you know.
@Lucrece I didn't say I like enhancement active talent choices. Moreover, I hate it. Boulderfist is not passive, but it's just another CD to manage, EotE from WoD. Makes rotation less spammy but a bit more difficult. It's cool.
Our active abilities adds just another cooldown to manage.

Hailstorm is the best one, I actualy like it.
Earthen Spike - awful, doesn't really change anything
Ascendance - Burst vs Landslide overpowered passive. Gives the choice, quite cool talent.
Overpowered - omg, another spender on cooldown, can fuk your Stormbringer
AoE tier - need number tuning, Crashing Storm is too good, because you should use CL on cooldown, with other talents you can't, really. Fury of Air drains your MS for CL on sustained aoe.
Windsong - ok, but shouldn't be on global cooldown imo

Anyway, there are some choices, but if passive ones will be better, then why the hell will you make things harder for worse results? Even my 2yo daughter know that you have to get better results when you work harder. In your logic you should get better loot from normal boss than mythic, because You don't wanna work harder for better results. I doubt you will understand, seems like you always have to defend yourself, even it that's the worst bullshiet we have ever seen

Cheers.

[Espeonagetieler]

The benefit of the active is you can game them around an encounter. See, we can both play the same game.

Nobody likes their preferred gameplay be marginalized. The answer isn't to nerf talents, but to ask developers to get off their ass and tune them around the 1-2% difference they said they would (which obviously is not the case in many of their broken promises).

I agree that they need to tune them and thats what I'm saying. Again makes no sense for talents that make you actually put in less effort or do less things to be flat out better.

[Tricktor]

Are we got the Artifact Talent order?

Almost near Legion and i glad to know!!!!

Thanks....

[marinos]

Are we got the Artifact Talent order?

Almost near Legion and i glad to know!!!!

Thanks....

The doc on the first post has the best artifact talent order, check it out.

[Valkaneer]

The benefit of the active is you can game them around an encounter. See, we can both play the same game.

Nobody likes their preferred gameplay be marginalized. The answer isn't to nerf talents, but to ask developers to get off their ass and tune them around the 1-2% difference they said they would (which obviously is not the case in many of their broken promises).

But then people wouldn't be able to say, "I work harder than you, so I should have better dps" LoL. Because that is what the real complaint is, is it not. Some people want to stroke their ego. I'm with you though that they should be balanced in between 1 - 2%.

[Lucrece]

I can't help but feel that if Flametongue and Frostbrand were off the GCD, it would feel so much better. For some reason Flametongue constantly refuses to activate for me.

[Gunwolf]

Fury of Air was pretty strong in beta. Maybe they'll buff it a bit more or it'll become stronger via gear. Sundering is the only talent that truly needs a HUGE buff.

Sundering needs to just stun, not knock aside. 2 sec line stun, buff its damage accordingly to its maelstrom cost.

I think Sundering is pretty lame in its current state too. I would like to see this be a narrow cone, not a line, and do a knock down instead of knockback/side. This would give it a little wider arc to hit enemies, plus the animation would prob look better... and a knockdown would be way more useful as its like a very short stun that achieves the same interrupt effect as knockback does.


@ Earthen Spike

I agree this could use a buff (but not by nerfing the other talents). They should increase the range to 20-30 yds, decrease the MS cost, and increase the damage and buff by a bit. We don't have the best gear yet, so in the future this talent might be better... like say Overcharge becomes a viable option cause we have better stats, and SS hits for higher and more often, so with Earthen Spike you could just barely squeeze 2 LB's and a couple SS's in that 10 sec window. It's possible, we will have to see.




The talents as a whole seem alright tho... better then what most specs get. We have a couple different choices in playstyle, not just a typical single target or aoe build, and you can choose to have a more hectic rotation or a calmer one that gives you a free gcd once in a while. I usually enjoy the more hectic style of play, but this time around I like the Boulderfist+Landslide build more w/ AS, but I can always switch to Hailstorm if I want something extra to push.

Other then the suggestions I made above for Sundering and Earthen Spike.... I do think Lightning Shield is pretty lame. Its passive damage, and the most boring kind too with no extra effect like Fury of Air with its snare. I don't really have any suggestion for it tho, and with our current playstyle it would be difficult to add a new ability in without taking one away somewhere else.

[Factoral]

With the onset of Legion information upon us I intend to be providing similar resources for Enhancement as I have in WoD, currently, provided the community interest is still there. Currently, I have an overview document available for what we know so far, a VoD from my initial reaction stream, and a more balanced video done with Bay from FinalBossTV taking a more in-depth look at how the game may/may not play with what we have here. This will be updated with future information and resources as time goes on and more Legion information becomes available; a general feedback/in-depth look at how the Legion Class Overview may interact us in a written form is likely what is next.

Legion WeakAuras

I really like the look of this. Is there any chance you could explain how I implement the WA? I've recently downloaded it and have no idea how to set it up like you have.

[wordup]

I really like the look of this. Is there any chance you could explain how I implement the WA? I've recently downloaded it and have no idea how to set it up like you have.

First grab Weakauras here on Curse, then grab each string in the Pastebin below, open up the WA UI inside wow, hit new, import, Paste the string and it will generate each section of the Auras that you copy over.

[Factoral]

First grab Weakauras, then grab each string in the Pastebin below, open up the WA UI inside wow, hit new, import, Paste the string and it will generate each section of the Auras that you copy over.

It's that easy? well that's embarrassing...from what it looked like in the options, it looked way more complicated haha.

Thanks.

[Bellante_mazrigos]

I can't help but feel that if Flametongue and Frostbrand were off the GCD, it would feel so much better. For some reason Flametongue constantly refuses to activate for me.

The problem with this is that it becomes free to use it, and particularly flametongue you could macro into every attack, and it becomes fire and forget + free damage.

Personally I find it a bit boring to have two self-buffs to manage that on activation don't really hit for anything, it's just as unexciting as slice n' dice is for rogues. It would help a lot with how sucky that is if some of the other talent choices could become viable, so you have 1-2 active damage abilities to hit, and then make flametongue and frostbrand last e.g. 30 seconds instead

So you would still have the more active gameplay, but with buttons that feel like they matter when you press them - Hailstorm clearly mattering a lot, it just doesn't feel like that when you press the button itself.

[nazrakin]

Personally, I just see Flametongue and Hailstorm as I do the dozens of other DOTs spells.

[Imnick]

Yeah as far as I am concerned, Flametongue is just Flame Shock for Enhancement, except you apply it to yourself instead of your enemy (better for target switching, worse for multi-dots).
It even "pandemics" like a DoT spell would.