[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[kalaratic]

It really is disappointing that we provide no utility in raids. I've been looking for a new guild for a few days now and none of them are looking for WW monks (this is at Heroic level too).

well to be fair after wod no one really has any reason to specifically look for one. but either way the classes that do have utility are very few in number, the majority of dps specs don't bring anything besides their damage + survivability.

[Babylonius]

It really is disappointing that we provide no utility in raids. I've been looking for a new guild for a few days now and none of them are looking for WW monks (this is at Heroic level too).

10% movement speed is nothing to scoff at. 8% boot enchants used to be mandatory in raids and people would live or die by that speed. If you're lucky enough to get the legendary that increases to 25%, it's pretty much the most overall beneficial legendary in the game. 25% movement speed is significantly OP and will result in more reduced damage overall than a cooldown.

[Purpleisbetter]

It really is disappointing that we provide no utility in raids. I've been looking for a new guild for a few days now and none of them are looking for WW monks (this is at Heroic level too).

I'm sure those guilds are stacking Ret Pallies like there's no tomorrow.

Or it's just a hyperbole.

[Lucrece]

I'm sure those guilds are stacking Ret Pallies like there's no tomorrow.

Or it's just a hyperbole.

2-4 melee spots will probably go to rogues and death knights (rogues because unlike monks, their soaking cd's did not get gutted or taken away; for dk's, you can't really replace grip and unholy DK's are virtually the best melee in legion under current tuning). You'll probably bring an enhancement shaman for the windrush totem. The rest is up for grabs.

[Juliansfist]

2-4 melee spots will probably go to rogues and death knights (rogues because unlike monks, their soaking cd's did not get gutted or taken away; for dk's, you can't really replace grip and unholy DK's are virtually the best melee in legion under current tuning). You'll probably bring an enhancement shaman for the windrush totem. The rest is up for grabs.

Sounds a lot like 5.2 era...you could even say that that's pretty much the standard. The post about assassination vs feral is pretty depressing and I hope we don't become an inferior demon huntard

[Purpleisbetter]

2-4 melee spots will probably go to rogues and death knights (rogues because unlike monks, their soaking cd's did not get gutted or taken away; for dk's, you can't really replace grip and unholy DK's are virtually the best melee in legion under current tuning). You'll probably bring an enhancement shaman for the windrush totem. The rest is up for grabs.

It's all about tuning. If cheesing/soaking nets u negligible gains, you go for the highest numbers u could possibly get.Or other forms of utility.
I.e.: 25% movement speed for everyone permanently is OP af and we might see some guilds "investing" a raid spot on WW for massive returns later on.

Soaking is relative to how much damage we need to shrug off...if it's not really THAT high, ToK/DM might do the trick.

Then there's number tuning, who knows.

About the raid spots, just too few melee spots. Lock is in dreaded state right now, Hunters and Balance not shining either, SPriest really struggling with almost non existant aoe ...9 or 11 ranged won't happen unless mage+hunter stacking.

We're so close to new expac yet it's so early too predict the raiding comp meta; at least imho ofc.

Other melee specs have their fair share of problems too.

[Lucrece]

Yeah, monk is pretty well off if you look at specs like survival hunter, feral druid, frost DK. THOSE specs actually have something to worry about. All monks can complain about is not being a demonhunter, and let's face it demonhunters are kind of eclipsing every melee but unholy DK and assassination rogues.

WW monk is pretty much on the same wavelength of enhancement shaman. Pretty solid.

[Oziemaster]

About the raid spots, just too few melee spots. Lock is in dreaded state right now, Hunters and Balance not shining either, SPriest really struggling with almost non existant aoe ...9 or 11 ranged won't happen unless mage+hunter stacking.

Demonology and destruction locks are doing pretty well right now and you would want 2 of them, BM and MM are great and you'd want 2-3 of them, you would want a balance for innervate and starfall, and then you would always want 1-2 Spriest for the highest boss damage and execute in the game. All the specs you mentioned are not struggling whatsoever and will find their spots in top world raiding guilds.

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Yeah, monk is pretty well off if you look at specs like survival hunter, feral druid, frost DK. THOSE specs actually have something to worry about. All monks can complain about is not being a demonhunter, and let's face it demonhunters are kind of eclipsing every melee but unholy DK and assassination rogues.

WW monk is pretty much on the same wavelength of enhancement shaman. Pretty solid.

I agree with you here. I'm sure guilds will prioritize a spot to a Windwalker or Enhancement. It'll be up to who is the better player honestly. Barring no balance changes to either at the current moment.

[ErothTV]

10% movement speed is nothing to scoff at. 8% boot enchants used to be mandatory in raids and people would live or die by that speed. If you're lucky enough to get the legendary that increases to 25%, it's pretty much the most overall beneficial legendary in the game. 25% movement speed is significantly OP and will result in more reduced damage overall than a cooldown.

Is this legendary that we are heading for ASAP?

[Xiaojin]

Is this legendary that we are heading for ASAP?

I don't think you have that much control over what legendaries you or even how many you get. Except for playing more. In the end, you probably have to learn to like whatever RNGesus gives you. Until some time later in the expansion when you hopefully got what you really want. As for your question: I think whatever is the best legendary for you also depends on your group composition and your group's strategies.

[Lucrece]

It seems like with the hotfix where they "fixed" roll/FSK they actually made it worse. It's actually way worse than my demon hunter's fell rush; flying serpent kick pretty much stops short of its complete travel time EVERY SINGLE TIME. Chi Torpedo covers whatever distance it feels like covering that particular day, I might just have to pick tiger's lust so it doesn't screw me in a fight.

Hell, demonhunters can mitigate the fel rush bug by just jumping and fel rushing.

[Purpleisbetter]

Demonology and destruction locks are doing pretty well right now and you would want 2 of them, BM and MM are great and you'd want 2-3 of them, you would want a balance for innervate and starfall, and then you would always want 1-2 Spriest for the highest boss damage and execute in the game. All the specs you mentioned are not struggling whatsoever and will find their spots in top world raiding guilds.

Demo with his huge ramp up issues and at the mercy of pets ai? Hardly.
Destro got a fantastic kit but roaring blaze nerf is a very huge one and i'm afraid (since i'm on the verge on going pure this time if God give me the grace to not heal anymore) Wreak Havoc is next in line.

Starfall got axed and innervate...from what i know, Innervate value is a bit overestimated.

SPriest (the other spec i was aiming too, goddamn...) got a BIG FAT nerf precisely at ST and execute damage (StM nerf); while retaining the cleave and AoE issues.

I mean, literally every spec got its issues, i really can't picture a solid DD like WW monk being sat because of raid comp.

This does not include mages because...mages.

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It seems like with the hotfix where they "fixed" roll/FSK they actually made it worse. It's actually way worse than my demon hunter's fell rush; flying serpent kick pretty much stops short of its complete travel time EVERY SINGLE TIME. Chi Torpedo covers whatever distance it feels like covering that particular day, I might just have to pick tiger's lust so it doesn't screw me in a fight.

Hell, demonhunters can mitigate the fel rush bug by just jumping and fel rushing.

Feel the same.
I've high chances to get stuck in the ground while FSK and roll.

[Lucrece]

Innervate is pretty garbage. You aren't wiping because a healer ran out of mana (but rather because someone failed mechanics), especially in pvp. Only with an artifact trait investment do you give a single healer out of 4 a 20% haste buff for a few seconds on a 3 minute cooldown.

Druids don't bring anything of worth to a raid besides rebirth, which DK's and warlocks already bring.

TBH the rampant removal of utility from hybrids is only going to make the situation more precarious as people will choose classes on pure DPS terms, and you know how that went for shamans when they gave mages heroism (hint: world first/cutting edge representation for shamans plummeted out of existence).

[kalaratic]

ok real talk, cause a lot of ppl who ask about raid spots aren't really pushing that high ranks and a lot of GMs try to look at the "best" comps for their shitty mythic guild. unless you are pushing really hard to be one of the best in your region / the world, you will have a raid spot as windwalker. their dps is just fine, you can still karma shit so you don't die, and you will completely shit on adds that spawn during an encounter, more so than other melee. the spec gives you a lot of room to grow as a player and if you put the time in there's no reason you can't outperform guildies of a "better" class

but if you're looking at it from the top-top level, then ya why would you waste a spot when you could have a rogue that can adapt each fight by respeccing. but decisions like that affect a very small proportion of raiders and shouldn't discourage you from playing the spec you enjoy

[Babylonius]

Is this legendary that we are heading for ASAP?

There is no control over legendaries anymore. There isn't a choice until you are able to get one more legendary than you can currently equip.

What it does mean is that you should use March of the Legion all the time, even over one that increases your personal DPS. It's a tough choice to not be selfish, but the movement speed is just too good.


And let's try to keep discussion here to Windwalkers.

[Deleted]

I just want to know if wind walkers are good enought for mythic raiding or they will be discarded and excluded from High myhtic content x) from what i read it seems like not

[ruga]

Has anyone run sims on the "new" Handguards of Demonsbane (Reward for the first set of Legion Intro Quests)? Heard lots of chatter about them giving a 14% dps increase vs Demons.

[Babylonius]

I just want to know if wind walkers are good enought for mythic raiding or they will be discarded and excluded from High myhtic content x) from what i read it seems like not

Its hard to know whether you mean "it seems like not" good enough for mythic or "it seems like not" discarded and excluded.

Right now, there's no reason that WW can't compete in high mythic content. There are several top mythic players who will be playing WW in Legion. At least one, maybe two of the available WW legendaries can make them nearly mandatory for groups who want things to be made significantly easier. The ToK legendary allows a WW to absorb 200% of their health AND redirect it back to the boss for a huge chunk of damage. The Movement speed legendary gives 25% movement speed which is pretty much insane.

[Deleted]

I just want to know if wind walkers are good enought for mythic raiding or they will be discarded and excluded from High myhtic content x) from what i read it seems like not

Well what's a good news is that now 20man raids can once again sustains more than 1 Windwalker at the time.
In WoD, 2 Windwalkers usually canceled each other out, with desirable SEF targets dying twice as quickly.

[fjura]

10% movement speed is nothing to scoff at. 8% boot enchants used to be mandatory in raids and people would live or die by that speed. If you're lucky enough to get the legendary that increases to 25%, it's pretty much the most overall beneficial legendary in the game. 25% movement speed is significantly OP and will result in more reduced damage overall than a cooldown.

can you confirm it increases it to 25%?

i never trust WoW wording when it comes to % increases.

it wouldn't surprise me if it increased the 10% by 15% to a wopping 11.5% or something. or changed it to 15%.