(Blood) DKs have become a joke

[Deleted]

This is something which we have discussed on these forums and the official forums for months, but either Blizzard doesn't agree with us or is taking a wait-and-see approach to how things play out in the first few weeks of raiding.

In the pre-patch, though, it should be very obvious that blood dks who have done their research are avoiding certain talents like the plague (Tombstone and Soulgorge being the most egregious, but also Blooddrinker, Bloodworms, Rune Tap, Mark of Blood, and Will of the Necropolis).

Edit: As for the playstyle of blood, I actually switched my main from resto shaman because I like the flow of blood (and because resto shaman are basically the same old class they've always been). I'm one of those weirdos who enjoys having some dead time in the rotation so that I'm not furiously mashing buttons, and the pacing rewards patience over spamming.

Pretty much agree with everything you say. I think blooddrinker may see use on certain single target raid bosses though, like the dragon at the start of EN and Ursoc, where the rp gain from heart is minimal (still better, but minimal), and you can use drinker whilst boss is out of range

[Deleted]

By having one more ability, that is on 45sec CD? C'mon.
The artifact is not some God sent present, that will make everything sparkly and awsome again. Sadly.

Adds some traits to your abilities. Vampiric Blood feels a lot more fun to use.

[Extremities]

I seriously hope you are joking
healing is crazy before patch 7 ? i used to solo almost all of the mythic dungeons. now it is much and much harder
i used to survive on boss fights for 30+ seconds without a healer now you only have on source to restore your health and sometimes you need more than 2 or 3 globals to cast a DS not to mention less Cd's over all
any person who knows how to play blood pre-7 will verify this mate

I agree. Blood used to be much better than it currently is. Self healing was much better. Damage is still good, my health is much more spiky now though and the self healing doesn't compensate for the amount of damage taken. Their idea or iteration of "class fantasy" doesn't fit well with how Blood currently is. For a class that's function IS self healing, they sure as shit shafted it. It's still better than other tanks but no where near where it used to be. Not even remotely close. Granted, I haven't played at 110 with my Artifact but it's currently no where near where it was.

[Deleted]

I agree. Blood used to be much better than it currently is. Self healing was much better. Damage is still good, my health is much more spiky now though and the self healing doesn't compensate for the amount of damage taken. Their idea or iteration of "class fantasy" doesn't fit well with how Blood currently is. For a class that's function IS self healing, they sure as shit shafted it. It's still better than other tanks but no where near where it used to be. Not even remotely close. Granted, I haven't played at 110 with my Artifact but it's currently no where near where it was.

Yeeah, but self-healing to the point of no need for a healer is a bit over the top, don't you think?
They did give us constant Damage Reduction to compensate. Sure, we're not self-sustainable as before, but nor are we completely useless.
Only if the healer in the group isn't healing, which would then be the case for every tank.

[fruitbasket102]

Someone said, that blood is preforming well in terms of HPS and cleave DPS, that is true, but the way the spec (and nearly all tanks currently) play is horrible.

Several ppl are saying, that they are enjoying the current form of tanking, but at the same time there are several, who are dearly against it. Neither one of these are correct, both are opinons.

And a word more on blood spesific, ppl are telling, that the Artifact will fix everything, but it will not, you get one more dull skill with a 45sec cd. That will not fix it, neither will all the artifacts +XX% stamina or +XX seconds to your DRW perks you gain when opening the slots.

The changes that they made are done because the good tanks were just way too good in MoP and in WoD, a skilled tank had no issues on taking 3 stacks on Mannoroth, a bad tank did not even get the 1st one correct (aka getting the debuff).
Now since they reduced the skills tanks have to bare minimun, if you just happen to push something, that is not on CD you are doing a h__l of a good job.

It does not feel rewarding, since you have very little control over your own survivability.

Yes, a good tank knows when to push VB, but rly, if the raid requires some heavy focusing, tank is the 1st one to die, despite what he is doing.

Not fun, not engaging.

I agree with this guy

[bloodmoth13]

I always felt the 4 different rune system was stupid af. Everyone else has a uniform resource spender, those runes were just too clunky. You can still give meaningful choices with a uniform resource to spend them on.

yeah it was clunky, your choice was dictated by what resource was available, not what ability was needed

[fruitbasket102]

I agree. Blood used to be much better than it currently is. Self healing was much better. Damage is still good, my health is much more spiky now though and the self healing doesn't compensate for the amount of damage taken. Their idea or iteration of "class fantasy" doesn't fit well with how Blood currently is. For a class that's function IS self healing, they sure as shit shafted it. It's still better than other tanks but no where near where it used to be. Not even remotely close. Granted, I haven't played at 110 with my Artifact but it's currently no where near where it was.

guess they did not like that part also, HS was nerfed
bone shield and red thirst also nerfed a bit

[Saybel]

Man I just played Veng DH in a HFC run

how the fuck do people think this spec is more fun than Blood

I had to leave after like 4 bosses because I was so fking bored

[Extremities]

Man I just played Veng DH in a HFC run

how the fuck do people think this spec is more fun than Blood

I had to leave after like 4 bosses because I was so fking bored

Vengeance is Blizzard's first early iteration of action combat. Might be why. I forsee them converting a lot of abilities in the game to be more so like an action oriented combat game. Might also be the fact that their self healing is stronger than the DK currently, if played right. I heal for 150k + per Soul Cleave on mine at almost a 700 ilvl

[Saybel]

Vengeance is Blizzard's first early iteration of action combat. Might be why. I forsee them converting a lot of abilities in the game to be more so like an action oriented combat game. Might also be the fact that their self healing is stronger than the DK currently, if played right. I heal for 150k + per Soul Cleave on mine at almost a 700 ilvl

I see similar numbers with DS and it doesn't require me to spend 6 GCDs pressing shear :/ it doesn't really feel stronger, it's just more frontloaded because they don't have the "damage taken in last x seconds" mechanic.

[Simulacrum]

Man I just played Veng DH in a HFC run

how the fuck do people think this spec is more fun than Blood

I had to leave after like 4 bosses because I was so fking bored

Oh, I wouldn't go DH for ranking raid bosses. It's great fun in hard 5 mans, though, like mythic+.

Then again, I wouldn't go any tanking class for tanking raid bosses right now. They're all boring as hell in that situation. Which is why my DH will be my primary alt, for mostly running small-scale group content, while I main my priest for raids.

[Extremities]

I see similar numbers with DS and it doesn't require me to spend 6 GCDs pressing shear :/ it doesn't really feel stronger, it's just more frontloaded because they don't have the "damage taken in last x seconds" mechanic.

Well, to be fair, DS requires multiple cooldowns of either Marrow or Heart strike just to build enough RP and DS heals for less than Soul Cleave + any souls laying around the Soul Cleave sucks in + the HoT attached to it if you pick up the talent. I also think the fact that people have chubbies just because its a Demon Hunter also factor in to those people claiming its more "fun". Take it for what it is. Just peoples opinions.

[Nnyco]

blood just feels like anythin you do doesnt really matter much

death strike heal? pretty much a joke now
bone shield? so easy to maintain you could use one of those birds that bop up and down on your keyboard and it would do the job
our cd's? theres vampire - thats good, drw - its okay pretty random tho and not worth its 3min cd, rest gone

and rest is us spamming bloodboil as usual, no choices, no smart play, just keep dem bones up yo

[Saybel]

Well, to be fair, DS requires multiple cooldowns of either Marrow or Heart strike just to build enough RP and DS heals for less than Soul Cleave + any souls laying around the Soul Cleave sucks in + the HoT attached to it if you pick up the talent. I also think the fact that people have chubbies just because its a Demon Hunter also factor in to those people claiming its more "fun". Take it for what it is. Just peoples opinions.

I mean it takes 2 GCD with HS while standing in DND to DS while it takes like 6 shears to cast a full effect Soul Cleave.

It's not that I think the healing is bad or anything, but someone literally said that DH is like the old DK when it's literally nothing like the old DK except it has a heal lol. Recently I have started to feel like a lot of DK players aren't actually interested in playing DK but they just want to play the shiny new class.

And DH isn't really that interactive, you just press shit on CD, keep 20 pain and 1 Demon Spikes charge in case of emergencies and Soul Cleave at 90+ pain or if you really need to heal.

blood just feels like anythin you do doesnt really matter much

death strike heal? pretty much a joke now
bone shield? so easy to maintain you could use one of those birds that bop up and down on your keyboard and it would do the job
our cd's? theres vampire - thats good, drw - its okay pretty random tho and not worth its 3min cd, rest gone

and rest is us spamming bloodboil as usual, no choices, no smart play, just keep dem bones up yo

idk DS healing can get pretty high when you are in high stress situations (200-300k atm, 1mill+ in Legion) so it feels pretty significant to me. You can go big dick on aoe anyway and laugh at medicore aoe dps specs so I still have my fun with this spec.

[Cronovey]

By having one more ability, that is on 45sec CD? C'mon.
The artifact is not some God sent present, that will make everything sparkly and awsome again. Sadly.

How about having that ability, having another trait on the artifact that makes Heart Strike heal you for 25% of it's total damage (Read: huge amounts of healing on cleave), another trait that gives you a free shield after Vampiric Blood ends equal to 5 times the damage your disease deals during Vamp Blood, and a 25% Leech buff any time you have a Blood Shield active on you from mastery.

Maybe that's enough free healing and shielding for you? The artifact is literally everything. It gives you healing, shielding, HP, armor, and shitloads of damage increases as well.

[Simulacrum]

I mean it takes 2 GCD with HS while standing in DND to DS while it takes like 6 shears to cast a full effect Soul Cleave.

It's not that I think the healing is bad or anything, but someone literally said that DH is like the old DK when it's literally nothing like the old DK except it has a heal lol. Recently I have started to feel like a lot of DK players aren't actually interested in playing DK but they just want to play the shiny new class.

And DH isn't really that interactive, you just press shit on CD, keep 20 pain and 1 Demon Spikes charge in case of emergencies and Soul Cleave at 90+ pain or if you really need to heal.

...

DH is a lot like the old DK. On live we're missing a bunch of talents, but at 110 you get enough low-cooldown abilities that you can cycle through them to keep yourself alive that way, much like how the old DK did. I don't know what the optimal cycle would be, since I haven't had time to experiment with it, but it's easy to imagine cycling through low cooldowns between mastery uptime, using both meta and last resort as 'low' cooldowns since you can alternate between them. Even consume magic is almost a cooldown, giving 50 pain on interrupt, which has the added paralell of annoying you when others in your group are not-shit enough to interrupt, much like how the old DK would get annoyed in the same way when people stopped dark simulacrum!

You don't have as many as the old DK of course, but considering the current DK has... I'd say none, since VB is essentially a permanent buff, it's the closest you get.

Of course, you could be doing content where you're never in any danger and are free to just sit there without any cooldowns or active mitgation active just pooling pain like it's no big deal, but in that case you could be sleeping on any other class as well.

[Saybel]

DH is a lot like the old DK. On live we're missing a bunch of talents, but at 110 you get enough low-cooldown abilities that you can cycle through them to keep yourself alive that way, much like how the old DK did. I don't know what the optimal cycle would be, since I haven't had time to experiment with it, but it's easy to imagine cycling through low cooldowns between mastery uptime, using both meta and last resort as 'low' cooldowns since you can alternate between them. Even consume magic is almost a cooldown, giving 50 pain on interrupt, which has the added paralell of annoying you when others in your group are not-shit enough to interrupt, much like how the old DK would get annoyed in the same way when people stopped dark simulacrum!

You don't have as many as the old DK of course, but considering the current DK has... I'd say none, since VB is essentially a permanent buff, it's the closest you get.

Of course, you could be doing content where you're never in any danger and are free to just sit there without any cooldowns or active mitgation active just pooling pain like it's no big deal, but in that case you could be sleeping on any other class as well.

I mean I get it has a lot of CD like the old DK but that's nothing the same as before. The flow and feel of the overall gameplay of the spec is absolutely nothing like any Blood DK iteration I have played, and the only one I've not played is WoTLK Blood. What you are describing to me is most similar to Seraphim Paladins in Highmaul when you rotated between Seraphim/SoTR/DP in the 30sec of time you had between Seraphims.

Sure, you have a lot of options if you want to think it like that but the ebb and flow of your resources and your gameplay is anything but a DK.

[Mewantcookie]

Blizz did this to most tanks. Made us one or two button meat shields. But honestly with blood you could always death strike your way to glory...............

most tanks? they made nearly all classes like this, you can play wow now with a NES-gamepad...

[Khrux]

Could almost release WoW on consoles and implement controller support on pc now with the low number of binds required. The whole game is alot simpler now and every class/spec is dumbed down heavily, this isn't exclusive to blood or DKs at all.

[Simulacrum]

I mean I get it has a lot of CD like the old DK but that's nothing the same as before. The flow and feel of the overall gameplay of the spec is absolutely nothing like any Blood DK iteration I have played, and the only one I've not played is WoTLK Blood. What you are describing to me is most similar to Seraphim Paladins in Highmaul when you rotated between Seraphim/SoTR/DP in the 30sec of time you had between Seraphims.

Sure, you have a lot of options if you want to think it like that but the ebb and flow of your resources and your gameplay is anything but a DK.

Hmmm... I guess I never really noticed that. Stuff that matters to me are things like that I always have something to do (gaps in my rotation really piss me off; part of why I can't play a prot paladin at all), and that the class is powerful enough that I feel like my survival is in my hands, not somebody else's.

I always gravitate towards tanks that feel that way, though that's not always the same tank. Prot warriors felt this way way back in WotLK, where block made you immortal. They even kinda felt this way during cataclysm, where you could heal yourself for so much with victory rush that you could go through an instance without a healer except for on bosses. Then prot paladin was broken as fuck for a while during MoP, where if you were tanking enough mobs at a time then as long as you didn't go from 100% to 0% between the cooldown on hammer of the righteous then you literally couldn't die. It was pretty funny to go straight into 5 man pugs in trash gear right after hitting the level cap and pulling entire rooms with zero issues.

Anyway... I don't feel that way on my DK anymore. I keep my bone shield stacks up, generate RP, and spend my death strikes at optimal moments, and that's about it. If that isn't enough then I just stand there and die. Granted, it usually is enough, because the DK is still pretty strong, but I still feel... powerless in that situation.

Meanwhile, on my DH, I feel like the old DK did. I generate my pain, spend my soul cleaves when it's optimal, and I cycle through my cooldowns during those moments when I don't feel like I could otherwise stay alive even if my healer suddenly went afk. Worst-case scenario I can even just leap away and kite. I feel like my survival is in my hands, and that's what matters to me. The old DK also felt this way. You always had some cooldown to use if you felt like you needed it. Though the WoD iteration had so many cooldowns that you could literally go completely without a healer for a really long time even on really hard content... the DH isn't that strong, but it's the strongest one around that still feels the same as the old DK did in this way.

But I feel like I've drifted significantly off-topic...