Pre-Patch Nerfs Make People Lose Their Shit

[Uzkin]

If you have been following up to date logs from good guilds mages and warlock both have their features they excelled. Any wreak havoc botanist and nightmare drsgons no one could touch destro double roaring blaze and if you looked at the theory of sims for nighthold 2 set with enough haste easy to get ppl could do confl every 6 seconds x3 charges so they were doing 3x or 4x exponential on an immolate cuz of roaring blaze at 60 % it was looking to end up beiny 30-40 % of our dmg single target in theory for nightold 40-50% being 2 target botanist mythic whole fight wreak havoc triple or quadruple conf buffed immos. They were broken in certain aspecrs even emerald havocing this.

But they do need to compensate the inc buff was s 1-2 % fix compared to a flat 5-10 % st nerf. We will still king at abusing havoc wit nightold 2 set

This is one likely consequence of an OP talent like Wreak Havoc: destro damage becoming balanced around it, turning destro into a niche spec. Akin to combat rogues in WoD, but even more specialized. Reminds me of Dragon Soul where destro, due to Bane of Havoc, was good at Morchok/Kohcrom and bad at everything else.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Ya it's pretty embarrassing. I don't understand how you call yourself a serious player and complain about changes to this class. It has changed more than anyou other I've played. It seems like it's just part of the fabric of the class now. Adapt or move on. They will not be changing massive game play elements. Numbers are all you could complain about and those aren't final until raids open so at this point you hold be exploring options that you would enjoy.

[shonist]

for what you saying, wlocks have been changed for new/lazy players, like my fury warrior main. So time to roll another one ! not a big deal.

[Sparkulls]

Health stones, portal and Havoc. If Destruction pulls good numbers we'd easily be a very viable spec despite it being clunky and unfun, stop being so melodramatic.

While destruction has the potential to be a good raiding spec with some number tweaks, affliction and demo are most likely fucked.

I would hardly call a free health potion progression worthy raid utility. Stampeding roar(guardian druids are good) replaces lock portal. Havoc, while it can be amazing in certain circumstances doesn't drastically out preform other classes passive cleave. At best you'd bring one lock on certain fights to abuse havoc.

Let's not forget the massive amount of time you'll be spending in mythic +...and we all know how amazing Warlock's are at those.

[purebalance]

I beg to differ.
I dont believe Blizzard will leave specs, let alone an entire class in the dumpster for the rest of the expansion.
If something is broken, and underperforming, it will be fixed. Im talking weeks here, not months.

ToC/ICC all three warlock specs were bottom of the barrel for months by a good margin. Only benefit was that locks and the only other low spec(ele) both brought spell power buff where no one else did so people still brought them.

- - - Updated - - -

Ya it's pretty embarrassing. I don't understand how you call yourself a serious player and complain about changes to this class. It has changed more than anyou other I've played. It seems like it's just part of the fabric of the class now. Adapt or move on. They will not be changing massive game play elements. Numbers are all you could complain about and those aren't final until raids open so at this point you hold be exploring options that you would enjoy.

It's pretty embarrassing. I don't see how you can call yourself a serious player and know that some classes/specs have gone live completely broken and useless even after raids have started. Adapt or move on doesn't work when your dps is shit and will be. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Your post is off base and worthless.

[Draxtor]

Title is pretty much self explanatory.
At least wait untill you're 110 and geared up for raids.
People should calm dafuq down.
All this moaning just make newcomer players dump their Warlock and go play something else.

If I've been 110 on beta for months now and done extensive beta raid testing am I allowed to complain then? As many others have said, the specs themselves are clunky. Half of Affliction's artifact traits not working due to the ghost mechanic being taken away, Demo's roughly 14 second buildup that has to be completely restarted if a target is out of range for longer than 5 seconds/you can't cast for 5 seconds, and Destro being either an entirely single target spec or an entirely AoE spec with nothing in between.

All that being said, no class enjoys having their only number-viable spec being nerfed. People are bringing up other classes because those other classes have been beating us, yet our only viable spec was nerfed.

Numbers are all you could complain about

All these people talking about the core issues that have been present since alpha and you just see people talking about numbers? Reread this thread.

[Kjarl Grimblood]

If I've been 110 on beta for months now and done extensive beta raid testing am I allowed to complain then? As many others have said, the specs themselves are clunky. Half of Affliction's artifact traits not working due to the ghost mechanic being taken away, Demo's roughly 14 second buildup that has to be completely restarted if a target is out of range for longer than 5 seconds/you can't cast for 5 seconds, and Destro being either an entirely single target spec or an entirely AoE spec with nothing in between.

All that being said, no class enjoys having their only number-viable spec being nerfed. People are bringing up other classes because those other classes have been beating us, yet our only viable spec was nerfed.


All these people talking about the core issues that have been present since alpha and you just see people talking about numbers? Reread this thread.

How come Blizzard leaving this class in such broken condition if all you say is true?

[Draxtor]

How come Blizzard leaving this class in such broken condition if all you say is true?

You tell us, that's why we are pissed.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8575457?page=1

[Kilkizan]

Any time ANYBODY brings up warlocks providing healthstones to a raid as a "benefit", I can only laugh as they must be in some pretty crappy casual guilds. At no point would a respectable progression guild say "We really need that warlock for those healthstones". Healing potions are required for progression raiding as they heal for a much higher total which could save your life or a healers mana. If the only real benefit we bring is playing taxi cab, what a sad state we are in and at that point we only need 1 warlock per raid.

In all honesty from somebody who actually raids mythic content and is 13/13 mythic HFC, warlocks are missing a lot when compared to classes such as mages and hunters. It drives me crazy that I can get on my 730 hunter and burst higher and longer in raids and dungeons than my warlock can anymore at 742 full mythic gear. This doesn't put us in a great place come Legion for heroic and mythic+ farming before raids. People want burst for quick clears and we dont have any real aoe burst without completely gimping out single target, something hunters and mages do just fine without having to talent swap between trash and bosses.

Right now in our weekly mythic HFC clears I talent swap 10 times a night if I want to be an asset to the raid. That is a huge problem.

[Nakrib]

What's so bad about Destruction?

It has very decent cleave, excels at quickly taking out adds and its aoe is decent too.

Demo has super strong burst aoe with Implosion and somewhat ok aoe/cleave (with Implostion/Darkglare).

Affliction will always be good at council fights and apparently now at aoe too.

Did u hear anything about artifact weapon?

[Walrock]

You tell us, that's why we are pissed.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8575457?page=1

Good read, would +1 if i wasnt on EU :/
I hope that we'll get a response on that.

Edit: Tweeted the devs the link to the original post, hope it helps :/

[sheggaro]

Did u hear anything about artifact weapon?

It gives you passive stats and a button to push yeah. How does that gimp the spec?

[Deleted]

Ya it's pretty embarrassing. I don't understand how you call yourself a serious player and complain about changes to this class. It has changed more than anyou other I've played. It seems like it's just part of the fabric of the class now. Adapt or move on. They will not be changing massive game play elements. Numbers are all you could complain about and those aren't final until raids open so at this point you hold be exploring options that you would enjoy.

Not just numbers. Destruction is the most viable progression spec, but even destro offers (outsid eof abusing Havoc on cleave fights) lacklustre performance and clunky tools. You only need to trial a fire mage or MM hunter to realise how much they outshine not just demonology and affliction, whose mechanics consign them to niche roles, but destruction too

It's just bizarre to have destruction nerfed so heavily - Roaring Blaze getting chopped by over 60% - and yet fire mages go totally untouched

It makes it kind of hard to get away from a feeling that Blizzard are playing favourites (when you consider how the admittedly OP demonology - thanks to tier bonuses/trinket - was very quickly nerfed down, but again mages were pulling almost as high numbers and nothing was done)

It just feels like they pander to high pop classes like mages and hunters - and often at the expense of low pop one slike warlocks. It shouldn;t be a suprise, if mages performed badly they'd have far more unhappy customers than they'll ever get from unhappy locks.

It has become entrenched, the high pop classes are played because they perform well and don;t get whacked by the nerfbat. So they don't get hammered because so many people play them. And so on.

[Orwell7]

Ok, let's get this straight.

Decent cleave- ok, for 2 targets, but if there are 3+, other classes are better, and even at 2, some are still very close.
Quickly taking out adds - unfortunately Chaos Bolt's damage is shifted into Immolate, and is nowhere near as powerful as it is now.
Aoe is decent too - uhm.. nope. Cataclysm is on a long cd, rain of fire is hard to use AND not effective.

Demo, super strong burst aoe - ok, if you have a few imps out, sure. But you lose a TON of single target damage that way, and if you keep HoG -> Implosioning, go see the results it's not strong at all.

Affli good at council fights - this could be true, but there are only 2 dots to manage and they aren't doing that much damage. UA needs shards, and sometimes you don't get any and next time you are overflowing.
Good aoe? Soul flame is good on paper, but it only deals damage when something dies. And guess what, if adds are already dying it's just pure meter-whoring and overkill.
You are talking about Sow the Seeds + PS? Ok, you found something decent about warlocks, congrats! Also, PS is on a long cooldown, and SoC has a long ass cast time, has a travel time, and a detonation "time", so you can't just spam it.

[Deleted]

It gives you passive stats and a button to push yeah. How does that gimp the spec?

If the reference is to the affliction artifact, then it is referring to the fact that the Gold traits are clearly designed around the original Reap Soul, which was to generate adds that the warlock could target and kill - Wrath of Consumption and Soul Flame only trigger if something dies. Originally you had a guaranteed source of stuff that died.

Then they changed Reap Soul - and failed to live up to their promise of changing WoC and SF's mechanics to reflect that change.

So now we have two Gold traits that are absolutely useless in any fight that doesn;t supply a stream of adds. And pretty poor performance on any fight with occasional adds.

That didn;t matter when Uthalesh itself proc'd "adds" the holder could kill to proc the Gold buffs. Only now it doesn't.

And it wouldn;t suprise me at all to see those Gold traits being nerfed for being "too strong" in a few fights despite being all but useless in others.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, let's get this straight.

Decent cleave- ok, for 2 targets, but if there are 3+, other classes are better, and even at 2, some are still very close.
Quickly taking out adds - unfortunately Chaos Bolt's damage is shifted into Immolate, and is nowhere near as powerful as it is now.
Aoe is decent too - uhm.. nope. Cataclysm is on a long cd, rain of fire is hard to use AND not effective.

Demo, super strong burst aoe - ok, if you have a few imps out, sure. But you lose a TON of single target damage that way, and if you keep HoG -> Implosioning, go see the results it's not strong at all.

Affli good at council fights - this could be true, but there are only 2 dots to manage and they aren't doing that much damage. UA needs shards, and sometimes you don't get any and next time you are overflowing.
Good aoe? Soul flame is good on paper, but it only deals damage when something dies. And guess what, if adds are already dying it's just pure meter-whoring and overkill.
You are talking about Sow the Seeds + PS? Ok, you found something decent about warlocks, congrats! Also, PS is on a long cooldown, and SoC has a long ass cast time, has a travel time, and a detonation "time", so you can't just spam it.

Affliction's AOE is "good" at the start of Legion because it is sustained and thing slive long enough for Phantom Singularity/Seed/Corruption to do their stuff. As gear levels increase and add packs die faster and faster, affliction will be back where it is now in live.

Which is, that you often dont; even get a chance to finish Seed of Corruption casting and then watch it sailing majestically across the room, let alone have it explode.

The changes they made to Seed where only the warlock's own damage sets them off were the ruination of seed. Having Seed revert to it's prior state, exploding from all damage, would be way better than Sow the Seeds. It would also help a lot if the Seed exploded upon the target dying.

I lost count of the times I have used it in mythic dungeon funruns only to have the target die before the damn thing can go off.

Eventually, when people are geared, everything will die to stuff like Barrage way before you even finish casting the first Seed. Oh, and of course, Sow the Seeds relies on having a shard. So between trash packs you probably won;t have that, as the passive generation is slow and ironically if you managed to dump Agony and generate a stuck by the time the group gets to the next lot they'll have faded!

Cataclysm and Rain of Fire are horrible, just imagine trying to use them in a fight like Darmac. I remember taking Cataclysm as affliction on that, lol, useless. Doubly horrible when you can watch your hunters use Barrage. Instant, no need to aim, doesn;t matter if stuff moves, 20 second cooldown.

[Dristereau]

I can understand some of the complaints, especially for Destruction. I took a look a their mastery and burst out laughing. Your spells deal a Random Amount of Damage. So yeah, you're coming up to a burst phase, and then suddenly due to your Mastery, your spells are hitting like garbage, all cooldowns used, heroism and all that. Then it ends, and RNJesus is on your side, and suddenly all your spells seems to be hitting like bricks, but you have no resources left to spend, no cooldowns and no heroism. Having a Mastery which is so random on whether or not it's going to be useful or is just horrible to me.

I don't think there was really an issue with Destro Warlock through MoP and WoD. It had a basic formula, it worked well, simple in what it did and how it did it. Long cast for big damage that requires lots of effort (Building Embers). Fillers in between, nice and deadly execute in the meantime, and some nice Cleave/AoE.

Speaking of Embers, I just plain cannot understand why they changed the Theme of Destruction regarding Burning Embers back to Soul Shards. It made sense, it looks fantastic, you started smouldering, and it was cool. But no, back to Soul Shards.

Didn't enjoy Affliction much when I played. Enjoyed Demonology, though it was pretty fun overall. My biggest question was whether I was actually playing it correctly or not. I actually had to Mana Tap on fights. Seriously felt to me like I was doing something wrong and questioning why when my mechanics focused on Soul Shards that mana could be an issue. However, if mana was no longer an issue, why does Mana Tap still exist?

[Xandy]

In my experience the biggest question on raid leaders' minds in regards to raid composition is: what does this class bring to the table that is either equal to or better than others? Right now I don't see a lot of answers to that question for Warlocks.

[hiramloram]

Any time ANYBODY brings up warlocks providing healthstones to a raid as a "benefit", I can only laugh

Then your sides must be in unbearable pain and you must be almost unconscious from being out of breath and from the general hysterics, because every member of the "lox r fine lol" brain trust is still saying it.

[Kjarl Grimblood]

It makes it kind of hard to get away from a feeling that Blizzard are playing favourites

What does Bob from Blizzard cares what you play in your free time. Dude snap dafuq out of this attitude.

[ThePhantombox]

I literally loged in to tell you this.

Warlocks are being BENCHED for raids. There is 0 reasons to bring a warlock over, Shadowpriest or fire mage etc.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're not getting benched for being a warlock, you're getting benched for being a shit warlock.