Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Deleted]

It is stupid to compare Trump to Brexit. This is nothing a like.

Here you are completely wrong im afraid.

There is a large section of the western world who have had enough of 'the establishment'. And they are voting accordingly. Basically the disenfranchised poor are showing their disdain for the establishment.

Brexit is totally relevant. One of the major findings after the Brexit vote was just how many voters simply voted to "piss off the government".

This phenomena is totally relevant to the US election. One candidate clearly represents that very same establishment.

Basically i am viewing this entirely from a much higher perspective, bigger than a simple US election. There is a very clear reason why Trump is gaining so much traction. Hes a fukkwit and yet hes proving popular right... hes attracting a large section of society, those who want to stick it to the system. The poor, the disenfranchised, the downtrodden.

Now, im positive that you will deny this but to me this is all crystal clear. There is no surprise to me that Trump has become so popular. A guy who in any other time wouldve been laughed out of the building...

They ignored the poor and disenfranchised in the Brexit vote and the Americans are likely to make exactly the same mistake regarding Trump.

[alexw]

I am well aware of his links to Russia, he has done plenty of deals with Russians in the past afterall. But is this really as explosive as any of the stories threatening Hillary right now?

Hillarys dodgy past is far more volatile. And if the threats are legit then we can all expect at least one more major 'exposure' before election day. Afterall, every other threat has been delivered thus far.

Errr yes? In fact its vastly more so. You see given the history of the cold war, the red scare, and how close the US and USSR were to nuking each other over Cuba among other things, combined with more recent events, there is a huge amount of distrust of Russia and people generally have a pretty strongly negative view of the country. This is particularly true of republicans from whom Trump draws his base support.

So if active links between Russia and Trumps campaign could be established it would utterly torpedo his campaign. Even criminal charges against Hillary would not help him come back from that. To paraphrase "She's corrupt but shes our corruption".

[alexw]

Clinton's (Hillary and Bill's) triangulations are well known. Hell, they perfected it. Along with selling out major portions of their constituency. But as far as flip flops, nothing can compare to Trump.

IMO with Clinton its that she uses popular opinion as a weather vane and aligns herself with it. So over time she changes her stances as peoples do. Its not brilliant but better than keeping very unpopular stances no-one wants. Trump.... well Trump is in a league of his own, he will say one thing to one audience then the next day contradict his prior statements to a different audience. Its also very stupid, he annoys everyone on both sides of issues that way.

[Felya]

Sorry, but Russian media position on this is basically "Hillary = War and further Destruction (of Middle East and beyond); Trump = Maybe War, Maybe Not"...
...it's not hard to make a choice here. Hillary is known quality. Trump might or might not be bad.

I asked for your opinion, not Russian media. Trump is also a very well known quality, you sticking your head in the sand of Russian media, doesn't change that.

[Theodarzna]

IMO with Clinton its that she uses popular opinion as a weather vane and aligns herself with it. So over time she changes her stances as peoples do. Its not brilliant but better than keeping very unpopular stances no-one wants. Trump.... well Trump is in a league of his own, he will say one thing to one audience then the next day contradict his prior statements to a different audience. Its also very stupid, he annoys everyone on both sides of issues that way.

Not exactly, Clintonism is built on the notion that the base has "Nowhere else to go," so you can mistreat them and walk all over them without much consequence. Bill Clinton made it a core aspect of the Democratic party. I wouldn't say they are weather vanes entirely, they have core issues, namely the dedication to Neo-Liberalism in economics. Clintonism is basically; the wealthy, the "knowledge industries," Wall Street, ect get the carrot, they get lavishly rewarded, deregulated, these are the real winners. Others, namely the poor get the stick via the crime bill and Welfare is Dead reform, and they are the ones sacrificed into the Moloch for NAFTA.

Hillary, IS admittedly her own person. But how different is she from her husband? She championed all those policies as first lady. As a Senator she was fiercely for the Iraq War, ect. If we are to have second Clinton White House, let it be less shameful and perverse than the first one.

[Shalcker]

I asked for your opinion, not Russian media. Trump is also a very well known quality, you sticking your head in the sand of Russian media, doesn't change that.

Sorry, but i agree.
Clinton handling of Libya is quite characteristic to her approach. And destruction that followed was completely predictable as well. No reason to think she'll change her habits.
She seems to get many neocons come fleeing to her camp from Republicans/Trump; those are also bad for foreign policy as far as Russia is concerned (and arguably world at large too).
And she have been most hawkish between her and Trump; even calling for enforcing no-flight-zone in Syria, which is a big no-no.

On another hand, Trump is speaking about possibility of at least joining forces to beat ISIS. Which is exactly what Russia would like; there have been many moves in that direction that has been mostly rejected by current US administration. It would help to defuse tensions immensely.
We don't have to agree on everything for situation to improve.

[Felya]

Here you are completely wrong im afraid.

There is a large section of the western world who have had enough of 'the establishment'. And they are voting accordingly. Basically the disenfranchised poor are showing their disdain for the establishment.

If you think Brexit vote was against the establishment is the same as Trump's, then I understand why you think I'm wrong. Trump has been paying off the astablishment for decades. He is the money in politics and the oligarchy that represents the establishment. People confuse being tactless with anti-establishment. You voting for Trump, is not a vote against a perceived influence of Europe.

Brexit is totally relevant. One of the major findings after the Brexit vote was just how many voters simply voted to "piss off the government".

Brexit vote to piss of the government was dumb, voting for Trump to piss of the government, is litteraly supporting that piss to head the country. It's absurd... It's cutting off your nose to spite your face... It's admitting that you are voting for a worse candidate, to fuck the country. I'm sorry, as an American, I rather not have piss hold the most power individual seat in government.

This phenomena is totally relevant to the US election. One candidate clearly represents that very same establishment.

While the other is what is actually wrong with government. Removing the corrupt filter, to give the country directly to the corruptor, makes anyone's calls for change in establishment completley pointless and have no meaning. What you are doing is like complaining that the executioner is killing people, to support the guy who gives him the order to kill. Voting for Trump is exactly what the establishment has been turning into over the last 40 years. The cries of corporatist government, is not changed by voting for a corporation, it progresses it's ill behavior beyond any point in history.

Basically i am viewing this entirely from a much higher perspective, bigger than a simple US election. There is a very clear reason why Trump is gaining so much traction. Hes a fukkwit and yet hes proving popular right... hes attracting a large section of society, those who want to stick it to the system. The poor, the disenfranchised, the downtrodden.

Yes, the ol' oxymoron of Trump being a blue collar billionaire. If you think Trump wants to stick it to the system, for the poor and diwntrotten, what exactly do you have issue with in current establishment? That people like Trump have been paying off government to get it to the state it is in now? Trump does not speak for the poor and downtrotten, that is absolute bullshit. His policy is squarely on the side of making corporations more powerful and pay nothing in taxes. For fuck's sake, when you combine his tax plans, with his healthcare plan, the cost balancing measure has 0 impact on the poor, but the tax write off escalates with you making more... Not less... Have you read his site?

Now, im positive that you will deny this but to me this is all crystal clear. There is no surprise to me that Trump has become so popular. A guy who in any other time wouldve been laughed out of the building...

I'm not surprised that a reality TV celebrity would gain this sort of popularity. At least idiocracy gave us a few more hundred years before it predicted this happening.

They ignored the poor and disenfranchised in the Brexit vote and the Americans are likely to make exactly the same mistake regarding Trump.

Seeing as how you think Trump is for the poor and disenfranchised, the mistake is already being made.

[BrerBear]

If you have no reaction to this, then you are part of the problem. I guess the attitude of "hey if it isn't hurting me then I don't give a shit" must run strong with you. You want to sit there and condemn the right wingers for being "anti-gay", yet there are countries slaughtering homosexuals and you don't bat an eye. That is pathetic.

I guess you were too challenged to read all 8 sentences of my response, because if you did you could never have drawn the conclusion of "I don't give a shit". I said that these countries need to be brought closer, not ostracized.

I have no reaction to Trump's stupid angle of attack. I have plenty of reaction to the countries doing the atrocities.

[Wulfey]

HRC has been a mainstream liberal Democrat for 30 years and has moved along with the party as the issues have changed. She has stayed just to the left of the middle of the Democratic party the whole time. That happens to be my position as well so I like HRC. Obama was about the same, but with more attempted outreach to the Republicans.

To some on this board, changing to keep up with the party is hypocrisy and corruption. I think that is madness. Politicians are representatives first and foremost. Asking for ideologues who never change according to who votes for them makes no sense in our representative form of government. Moreover, HRC has been a just-left-of-Dem-mainstream liberal her whole life, but Trump can't hold a position for a week (see this week's 10th or so version of the Muslim ban).

[alexw]

If you have no reaction to this, then you are part of the problem. I guess the attitude of "hey if it isn't hurting me then I don't give a shit" must run strong with you. You want to sit there and condemn the right wingers for being "anti-gay", yet there are countries slaughtering homosexuals and you don't bat an eye. That is pathetic.

By the way, I'm not a "Trumpist", "Trumpster", or whatever else you want to call them. It's amazing that if you have issues with Hillary being President that must make you a Trump supporter.....actually nah I just use common sense. They are both shit stains and "we the people" put them in this position. Pretty cool huh?

Oh cool. Another Trumpist who is now on the "they are both as bad as each other" bandwagon.

Out of interest who do you believe people who are pro gay rights should vote for if they want to improve the situation of gays both home and abroad? Keep in mind in your reasoning that its going to be either Clinton or Trump as president.

[alexw]

Not exactly, Clintonism is built on the notion that the base has "Nowhere else to go," so you can mistreat them and walk all over them without much consequence. Bill Clinton made it a core aspect of the Democratic party. I wouldn't say they are weather vanes entirely, they have core issues, namely the dedication to Neo-Liberalism in economics. Clintonism is basically; the wealthy, the "knowledge industries," Wall Street, ect get the carrot, they get lavishly rewarded, deregulated, these are the real winners. Others, namely the poor get the stick via the crime bill and Welfare is Dead reform, and they are the ones sacrificed into the Moloch for NAFTA.

Hillary, IS admittedly her own person. But how different is she from her husband? She championed all those policies as first lady. As a Senator she was fiercely for the Iraq War, ect. If we are to have second Clinton White House, let it be less shameful and perverse than the first one.

Can't say I agree with that. The democratic party tried to keep its FDR style left-wing politics but got crushed every time they tried. The Reagan revolution and all that. They had no choice but to move rightward or face electoral oblivion. Now the nation is moving leftward and the democratic party is moving leftward with it in response.

Now this is only my opinion. If I see Clinton on accepting the presidency drop all the promises she has made without even trying then I'll revise my opinion and 100% agree with you.

[Theodarzna]

Can't say I agree with that. The democratic party tried to keep its FDR style left-wing politics but got crushed every time they tried. The Reagan revolution and all that. They had no choice but to move rightward or face electoral oblivion. Now the nation is moving leftward and the democratic party is moving leftward with it in response.

Now this is only my opinion. If I see Clinton on accepting the presidency drop all the promises she has made without even trying then I'll revise my opinion and 100% agree with you.

If you read that guys book, and the history checks out, the Democrats ditched the FDR coalition in the early 1970's, largely because they wanted to get away from the Vietnam war and Unions had decided to back the Vietnam war.

The Democratic Parties long march against Working People started well before Reagan. The Democrats had wished to make a break with whom they had been as the Vietnam war was winding down. They wanted to no longer be the party of organized labor, and this was hardly secretive either, they were very open about it. The Democrats wanted to be more identified with the more affluent, white collar, professional suburbanites with high education and very socially progressive views. AND in the Democratic parties defense, they had no way to know that working peoples fortunes and livelihoods would be ruined by globalization policies. Working people were doing very well back in the early 70's.

[alexw]

And if you don't approve of either candidate I guess your opinion is irrelevant? Keep pushing that 2-party system bullshit dude...it's doing wonders. I guess in the end our only choices are a pair of turd sandwiches. If only I was smart enough to realize that you have to vote red or blue...there are no other options.

If I personally valued the gay agenda, then my vote would go to neither Hillary or The Donald....*gasp* oh my what did I just say?

You did read the bit where I said keep in mind that its going to be either Clinton or Trump as president, right? So how will voting for third party improve the situation of gays given this context?

[Deleted]

i am a strong progressive liberal democrat and was going to vote for Hillary.

But i came across new information and it makes me doubt so much! How can you vote for someone who has openly lied and changed stances of important topics over and over again. These are not opinions these are simply stating the facts.

Hillary flip flop on gay rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH7D5XMKjiA

Hillary voted time and time again to build a barrier(a wall is a type of barrier so saying they are not the same thing is silly. not my opinion. fact)

here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZ44ir7SgU

Hillary has also been racist time and time again towards mexicans but changed her views when she needed the vote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXLmmYRjDKw


such ashame i was really looking forward to voting for her. but it would be craziness to ignore all of this information against her. just plain crazy to ignore it.

[alexw]

Well I guess I won't vote for the winner if my ideals and values are not reflected in the red and blue party candidates. You can't paint people in a corner because "you're candidate can't win". You are part of the reason we can't break from this pathetic 2-party system if you are going to tell me I only can vote for one or the other. I know this is going to be somewhat shocking, but people do actually vote based on those merits i listed above, not the lesser of two evils garbage.

Well you are the one who argued for people not to vote for Clinton because the Clinton foundation accepts money from nations that harm gays. If you are going to do that then you need to show how voting for x instead of Clinton will end that or make the lives of gays better vs what the effects of a vote for Clinton would do, so as to give pro gay rights people a reason for voting for x instead of Clinton. That you have not been able to do, which is why when weighing up gay-rights issues those who are pro gay rights will not listen to a word you and those like you say. It just makes no sense to vote for x,y,z instead of Clinton and increase the chances of the pro gay conversion therapy party getting their candidate in. It makes no sense at all.

[Healing Rain]

If you want someone who supports a domestic terrorist group, BLM, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who wants the government to pay people to kill their children, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who puts illegals ahead of Americans, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who wants to put coal workers out of work and wants to chain them to the government, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who is relying on political exploitation("identity politics") Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want corruption, incompetence and lack of leadership, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you.

[Orbitus]

every positive point i made about Hillary is true. if you can not handle people using factual information to backup an opinion that is different than yours.

the internet is not for you.

No, you didn't. All of it was feels over reals. Nothing was backed up by sources OR policies. But then again, all of the Conservatives on this forum are the same way.

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Yes Trump is a Clown... but thats it, hes an idiot.

But Hillary is a fukking organised corrupt criminal!!

Which looks worse now?

You forget that 100% of the US media is funding Hillary... why do you think so much media is against Trump?

Yeah u have to be a special level of stupid to listen to the US media right now *facepalm*

Interestingly Trump is doing better than Hillary even with the media propaganda... its interesting times for sure. The global elite are seeing the wheels fall off their bus 4sure.

Still Trump. Sure Clinton has some issues, but Trump is still worse. His tax plan would add $10 trillion alone, his policies with Muslims violate the constitution. His useless wall will never be built and solve nothing.

The media isn't reporting anything other than what he says and what he tweets, why shouldn't I listen to them. It is Trump that is sticking his foot in his mouth. Not only one but both AND his fucking ass.

You are just listening to Trump tell lies that he thinks that the media is telling lies. And Trump isn't doing better than Hillary. He is losing by 10 points nationally. And all of the swing states. It is pretty much over, unless Hillary fucks up.

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Alt accounts are not cool.

Please do not derail this thread.

Hillary is the only option going forward. just look at this last page. Free speech is not that good anymore because so many cretins abuse it with vile language when they get upset ...and this is a forum for a game.

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if hillary is corrupt she would have been in prison.

that is what the justice system is there for. so stop that mindless argument.

You are calling me a cretin because you can't handle a few fucking four letter words? That is on you to grow up, not me. That is me expressing free speech but it doesn't matter because this is a PRIVATE FORUM. It isn't against their rules to swear. If you don't like it, you can leave.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well I guess I won't vote for the winner if my ideals and values are not reflected in the red and blue party candidates. You can't paint people in a corner because "you're candidate can't win". You are part of the reason we can't break from this pathetic 2-party system if you are going to tell me I only can vote for one or the other. I know this is going to be somewhat shocking, but people do actually vote based on those merits i listed above, not the lesser of two evils garbage.

Sorry, you just don't understand the system.

The way our electoral college works, if more than two people are in the "final" running then it's likely none of them will reach the required 270 votes to win.

That's why we have primaries. Primaries are where you get your "I like this third party" out of your system. If they win the primary, great. If they don't... don't get bitter because the FINAL general election only has two candidates.

Look into how the system works and why it works. It's not an amazing way, but third parties have their chance before the primary to strut their stuff. If they lose, they lost. Get over it.

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If you want someone who supports a domestic terrorist group, BLM, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who wants the government to pay people to kill their children, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who puts illegals ahead of Americans, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who wants to put coal workers out of work and wants to chain them to the government, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want someone who is relying on political exploitation("identity politics") Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you. If you want corruption, incompetence and lack of leadership, Crooked Hillary, the lawless candidate, is the candidate for you.

If you want someone who is all of this and ten times worse in other ways, Donald Dump.

[Orbitus]

And most people see Hillary as CLEARLY the worst choice.

As proven in recent polls.

Really? What polls are you looking at? She is up 10 points nationally. She is winning ALL of the swing states and with Trump pretty much shitting the bed with his mouth, even normal Republican states are trending blue for Hillary. Like Georgia, North Carolina, and even Texas is close to being a swing state.

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The only polls showing Hillary in the lead are from the media outlets who are funding Hillary... you are a grade A fukkwit if you trust them... seriously GRADE A.

You know, people said the same fucking thing during 2012 when Romney was losing by 6-8 points and guess what? He lost by 6-8 points total. You are just another shill that won't listen to evidence.

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I dont have a dog in thsi fight... i repeat... I HATE BOTH OF THEM

I remain on the fence.

I am looking at this entire event through 100% unbiased eyes... really.

And i am seeing two terrible candidates who are hated enormously throughout the USA... really serious hatred on both sides. And One candidate is the status quo and the other is an outsider. One candidate is corrupt as fukk and the other is an idiot.

And watching these events in the USA it is very clear that Trump has a very good chance to win this.

Anyone telling you otherwise is either biased or doesnt understand the events happening around them.

No, you aren't looking at this unbiased. You are stumping for Trump plain and clearly. Simply because you are saying exactly what he is saying, that the media lies and that the polls are wrong and that he is winning. Though that evidence and reality show the complete opposite.

[BrerBear]

Supporting a candidate who willingly takes money from countries who KILL homosexuals just because they are gay....yeah that shows either willful ignorance or complete disdain for the plight of your "community". Sorry you don't get to "care but not really care" because you don't give a rat's ass about the character of the person you want as President. If you really cared, you might consider someone like Gary Johnson or even Jill Stein.

I was going to write a detailed response to you, but I know your post history. You aren't worth it. But in short...

No gay person gets outraged that our allies have to associate with our enemies. The very idea is ridiculous. It's not a luxury we have when vast swaths of the world's population want us imprisoned or dead. That you and the people spouting this line don't realize that just shows how out of touch you are with our community.

You can keep blowing that outrage horn, and it will keep falling on deaf ears.

P.S. I wouldn't want Gary Johnson or (*shudder*) Jill Stein to cut those countries off, either. They would be complete idiots to do so, and yet they probably would.

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i am a strong progressive liberal democrat and was going to vote for Hillary.

But i came across new information and it makes me doubt so much! How can you vote for someone who has openly lied and changed stances of important topics over and over again. These are not opinions these are simply stating the facts.

Hillary flip flop on gay rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH7D5XMKjiA

Hillary voted time and time again to build a barrier(a wall is a type of barrier so saying they are not the same thing is silly. not my opinion. fact)

here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZ44ir7SgU

Hillary has also been racist time and time again towards mexicans but changed her views when she needed the vote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXLmmYRjDKw

such ashame i was really looking forward to voting for her. but it would be craziness to ignore all of this information against her. just plain crazy to ignore it.

Awww, too bad about your post history blowing your cover.
But hey!

Hillary flip flop on gay rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH7D5XMKjiA

I know, right?
Back in 2000 my mom, like Hillary, didn't support gay marriage. And my mom even knew she had a gay son!

Never mind in 2016 that my mom is now a member of PFLAG and a strong supporter of gay marriage.
Put aside that my mom is now actively working to get her church's policies on gay marriage changed.

What's really important is that my mom is a dirty flip flopper!
RAWR!