Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Bisso]

I'll look at Legion potions again soon, but the current recommendations are http://www.wowhead.com/item=127843/p...f-deadly-grace for BM and MM and http://www.wowhead.com/spell=188330/...of-the-old-war for SV. However, I haven't done a breakdown of these yet. I can put this next on my list of things to do.

P.S. The Deadly Grace potion is ~20 RPPM for 25s, so it should be ~8 procs during usage (20/60)*25. Upwards of 9 or 10 procs, if lucky, better chances if haste-heavy geared (RPPM).

Oh wow! How did I miss those new Legion pots? I guess I looked for agility potion and when I couldn't find anything I just assumed they decided to no longer make pots other than healing and mana. I'm glad I was wrong.

[Effinhunter]

So going by the value above of 4.0263532763532763532763532763533 agility per wdps given by Effin, and assuming that holds true...

Let's define 4.0263532763532763532763532763533 agility and 1 wdps as a "point," for lack of a better word. For each point through progression:

BM gains (4.0263532763532763532763532763533 * 10.05) + (1 * 3.84) == 44.3048504274 DPS

MM gains (4.0263532763532763532763532763533 * 7.74) + (1 * 25.40) == 56.563974359 DPS

SV gains (4.0263532763532763532763532763533 * 10.52) + (1 * 11.138) == 53.4952364672 DPS

This is ignoring secondaries of course but adding them makes the math substantially more complicated, and the differences in scaling difference there tend to be small compared to what we see for Wdps and Agility (a general trend seems to be that MM also has better secondary stat scaling than BM and SV, however).

So MM > SV >> BM for scaling with gear, it would seem. Please correct me vigorously if I've fucked up the math.

edited because i cant word gud

BTW, I wouldn't panic too much on this. Blizzard appears to be tweaking the other specs around agility and also secondary stats, which provides more bang for the point in BM especially. Keep in mind that the relics not only add weapon dps through the ilvl upgrade but also agility and secondary stats. You probably have to incorporate the secondaries into the BM analysis to see how it balances out.

[Azortharion]

Trying to compare DPS specs this way is one of the silliest things this forum has seen.

[3clipse]

Trying to compare DPS specs this way is one of the silliest things this forum has seen.

I, too, think videos games are serious business and one should never have fun or do something goofy for kicks while talking about them.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I wouldn't panic too much on this. Blizzard appears to be tweaking the other specs around agility and also secondary stats, which provides more bang for the point in BM especially. Keep in mind that the relics not only add weapon dps through the ilvl upgrade but also agility and secondary stats. You probably have to incorporate the secondaries into the BM analysis to see how it balances out.

Oh, of course. I was just curious what crunching the numbers we currently have would end up looking like.

[eathdemon]

I also have to wounder how likely that 10% is to show up below the top 2% of players though. the reason mm crushed bm in hfc was because of a 30 to 40% difference. plus this time blizzard has a easy buff vector for bm in incressing pet scaling if they need too.

[Azortharion]

I, too, think videos games are serious business and one should never have fun or do something goofy for kicks while talking about them.

Well, it's casually wrong at best, and blatantly misleading at worst. ;p

[Noocta]

Not sure about DPS gain, and I know not many people here even play survival, but those 2 more seconds added to the Mongoose Fury buff really make a big difference as far as making the rotation feel better to me.

[Mursy]

What are the BIS trinkets for MM and BM?

[Effinhunter]

What are the BIS trinkets for MM and BM?

The Legion trinkets we know about so far are listed on first post. I sort of overwrote the full list of T18M, but I can rerun the scripts if you need the full listing for prepatch (Live right now).

[Xuven]

I have not been using a tenacity pet for survival. The pet currently is a cat, which is just something I've been using for several expansions now in sims.

- - - Updated - - -

First post is updated with scale factor links. See page 13 of this thread for more details on those.

I didn't mean whether it was a cat or a bear.

I meant it's stance, putting it into tank stance (Tenacity) opens up a variety of skills that trigger Mongoose Bite charges.

[3clipse]

I didn't mean whether it was a cat or a bear.

I meant it's stance, putting it into tank stance (Tenacity) opens up a variety of skills that trigger Mongoose Bite charges.

Given how low the chance on Hunting Companion is, even after the buff, I'd be very surprised if the extra procs would be outweigh the DPS loss from losing Spiked Collar (which also affects Flanking Strike, which is a big part of SV's damage).

[EliteNightKnight]

What is the problem with Dire Frenzy, why it is not recommended (especially paired with One with the Pack talent) ?
BTW Is it possible to get 100% uptime on Dire Frenzy with high amount of haste/crit?

[MrTharne]

What is the problem with Dire Frenzy, why it is not recommended (especially paired with One with the Pack talent) ?
BTW Is it possible to get 100% uptime on Dire Frenzy with high amount of haste/crit?

Dire Frenzy is a replacement for Dire Beast, but Blizzard forgot that it needs to be a replacement for Dire Beast + LvL 30 Talent. The reset mechanic is not reliable enough for the stacking to be effective imo. (Giving us two charges might be a good way to make it viable, I don't know)

[Deleted]

Legion Mythic Dungeon Gear for MM @ 1 Target shows the BM results.

Icy Veins lists Haste as being the worst stat for BM (pre expansion patch) I'm interested in why that will change in Legion, will Hati benifit so much from Haste?

[Deleted]

Icy Veins guides are for the prepatch and not for legion.

Did you literally stop reading after "...worst stat for BM..." ...?

[silverstarzs]

Effin,

Lets say we take MM for raid - we know the proper talent build . . . but lets then say we dont want to pull every seagull and turtle in dungeons - what is the best MM build if we do NOT want to take either sidewinders nor barrage? And How would that compare to a BM spec/weapon with much fewer AP points (eg when are we then better switching to BM for dungeons as an alt spec)?

[Deleted]

Did you literally stop reading after "...worst stat for BM..." ...?

I have no idea how i read it before , sorry was a bit early when i wrote that.

[Xuven]

Given how low the chance on Hunting Companion is, even after the buff, I'd be very surprised if the extra procs would be outweigh the DPS loss from losing Spiked Collar (which also affects Flanking Strike, which is a big part of SV's damage).

How does Spiked Collar affect Flanking Strike sorry? :O

[Deleted]

How does Spiked Collar affect Flanking Strike sorry? :O

Increases ability dmg and crit chance , think thats what he meant.

[3clipse]

Increases ability dmg and crit chance , think thats what he meant.

Yep, any attacks that come from your pet benefit from the +10% damage/+10% crit chance that Spiked Collar confers.