Aetna to exit nearly 7 in 10 Obamacare plans

[Ghostmcghosty]

About the ACA: My anecdote.

On paper it's a great thing. I know other nations have their own healthcare system, but for better or worse, i honestly don't think America would fare the same way.

In practice, it kinda sucks. For me, my employer provided health insurance yeah. But rather than opt in, I was forced in. I have to opt out yearly or be auto enrolled and have the money automatically deducted from my pay each month. And all this despite the fact that I already have health insurance.

You could blame the business alone, but the only reason they do it is because they are scared to death of being hit by fines due to ACA. So they put the burden on opting out on the employees...each and every year.

I have no issues with people who develop chronic illnesses or have a huge accident. Insurance should cover that shit. That is what it's for. I would have preferred a law that demands that all insurance providers cannot raise your premium if you develop a chronic illness and they cannot drop you as a client for the same.

Instead what we got is a system that forces us to get health insurance but doesn't even force health insurance companies to take people and adhere to basic decency rules.

Long story short. The ACA is only a tax on the American people who decide not to have health insurance because they choose not to or can't afford it. That doesn't really sound like something to celebrate.

[Caolela]

First off, bullshit. Obamacare is a scam. ...

First off, Obamacare is Romneycare on steroids -- ROMNEY..."CARE". That's what it was adapted from. Second, it is a huge giveaway to Big Pharma and Big Insurance and yes, I agree that by and large it stinks.

One thing it is NOT (for the most part) is "socialism". It is actually just about the opposite of that: it is gov't working in cahoots with corporations to the detriment of its citizens or the public at large. That's one of the definitions of fascism; not Nazism but Mussolini's kind of fascism, as he called it...Corporatism.

Before you admonish others about reading a book, maybe you should do some reading yourself because you're WAY off base. Obama on most economic and war issues is right-wing or corporatist, not left or socialist. If you want to hate him (and I don't blame you), at least hate him for the right reasons - not something that Fox continuously pulls out of their asses.

My suggestion is to turn off the idiot box and the professional liars who inhabit it (see my avatar), and start to educate yourself.

[Ghostmcghosty]

For once I'd like to see a human that isn't an utter failure at life explain why the US needs single payer. If you're so fucking stupid you can't get a 30k job the gives insurance,
Infracted

I have been looking up pay in America cause it seems like everyone online makes 60-100k per year, but everyone I know and speak to makes between 10-15 an hour .

10/hr = 19,200
15/hr = 28,800

And the average american household (That is household, not individual) pulls in 51k a year. yet it is apparently so easy to find a job where you start off making 30k a year?

The numbers don't add up. So people like you? I call bullshit. The millennials are still suffering from the recession and we are still counting all those baby boomers who make stupid high wages that no one can seem to find nowadays.

You are either in your 50's and out of touch with the current reality, or you are much too young to understand.

[Stacyrect]

Agreed. I heard on the radio today when they were discussing this that Aetna's statements were taken as a veiled threat, and rightly so.




This shows part of what the ugly truth is about these insurance companies:



Part of a Moyers interview with Wendell Potter, former executive at CIGNA who has been active in exposing and opposing much of their asshattery.

Look no further then the VA if you want a shining example of govt healthcare lol

[Jinpachi]

All working as intended.

Crash healthcare, make the common idiots beg for single payer, aka .gov healthcare. = full blown socialism/control incoming. '

I HATE Globalists/Leftists.

Nah bruh, take a few hundred billion from the defense budget, stop world policing, and take care of our own. Easy peasy, not socialism. Public works. learn the fucking difference.

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I have been looking up pay in America cause it seems like everyone online makes 60-100k per year, but everyone I know and speak to makes between 10-15 an hour .

10/hr = 19,200
15/hr = 28,800

And the average american household (That is household, not individual) pulls in 51k a year. yet it is apparently so easy to find a job where you start off making 30k a year?

The numbers don't add up. So people like you? I call bullshit. The millennials are still suffering from the recession and we are still counting all those baby boomers who make stupid high wages that no one can seem to find nowadays.

You are either in your 50's and out of touch with the current reality, or you are much too young to understand.

They make that much because you have 2 workers making between 10-15 an hour. or the person making 15 an hour works 60+ hours a week. good luck making that in a non-manufacturing environment w/o going tens of thousands in debt for a degree. even then you arent guaranteed. Best bet? Go to vocational school, learn a trade, and work for yourself. No limit to how much you can earn then.

[roahn the warlock]

All working as intended.

Crash healthcare, make the common idiots beg for single payer, aka .gov healthcare. = full blown socialism/control incoming. '

I HATE Globalists/Leftists.

Yeah, isn't it awful, in Canada and in most of Europe people don't die because they are poor.

[Caolela]

Look no further then the VA if you want a shining example of govt healthcare lol

Which has nothing to do with my post on Aetna and the former CIGNA exec.

[roahn the warlock]

Yeah. Because government-run things are so efficient, incorruptible, and successful... Just look at public schools, social security, and medicare.

They are inefficient because 50% of our politicians make it that way on purpose. That's like saying the horse is inefficient at pulling the carriage, when republicans are busy tossing a 500 billion dollar military budget on it's back.

[Logwyn]

Yeah, isn't it awful, in Canada and in most of Europe people don't die because they are poor.

I would gather if I looked into it. You'd be wrong.

[Ghostmcghosty]

They are inefficient because 50% of our politicians make it that way on purpose. That's like saying the horse is inefficient at pulling the carriage, when republicans are busy tossing a 500 billion dollar military budget on it's back.

I like how you made it a partisan issue.

What you are saying is that the horse is inefficient because the horse doesn't feel like being efficient. Govt = the politicians who make the laws and rules. Take the people out and you have empty buildings.

Your explanation does not change the fact that govt is still inefficient

[roahn the warlock]

Oh, look. Someone else who has NO CLUE how Obamacare works and how it fucks people over. Healthcare for all, huh, Endus? How about the fact that we have a shortage of Doctors and many private clinics had to close because of Obamacare. So with less Doctors and Hospitals and MILLIONS more "covered" that can't afford the price of Obamacare we are better off, huh? Yup, bigger wait times before you can even see your doctor and hospital bills that were MORE EXPENSIVE then before.

So what you are saying, is basically, our healthcare system relies on some percentage of the population not having access to healthcare. Because, if everyone had it, then we would have the same problem, now wouldn't we?

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I would gather if I looked into it. You'd be wrong.

That's why half our country is filled with idiots. You just "Guess"

[Ghostmcghosty]

They make that much because you have 2 workers making between 10-15 an hour. or the person making 15 an hour works 60+ hours a week. good luck making that in a non-manufacturing environment w/o going tens of thousands in debt for a degree. even then you arent guaranteed. Best bet? Go to vocational school, learn a trade, and work for yourself. No limit to how much you can earn then.

I am aware. That was my point. The average household has two working adults. They pull in about 51,k per year as the average. That means some people make more, some make less.

So when someone rolls up like making 30k+ is the defacto standard, I wonder where they live cause it isn't America.

[roahn the warlock]

I like how you made it a partisan issue.

What you are saying is that the horse is inefficient because the horse doesn't feel like being efficient. Govt = the politicians who make the laws and rules. Take the people out and you have empty buildings.

Your explanation does not change the fact that govt is still inefficient

My example states that is is inefficient because it chooses to be, mostly be the same people who don't want it to be. Because then some guy couldn't buy a yacht for his yacht. The rest of the world has great government programs, and they work swimmingly, hell, rewind back America some 50 years and you will see it was efficient back then too.

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I am aware. That was my point. The average household has two working adults. They pull in about 51,k per year as the average. That means some people make more, some make less.

So when someone rolls up like making 30k+ is the defacto standard, I wonder where they live cause it isn't America.

The fact that someone thinks 30k a year is enough is fucking laughable. Wage inequality in America is just another problem. But that's okay, because some people in this country need to have an estate for their yacht to live in. We have to defend those people, who clearly didn't get there on a rigged system, Because one day, we might win the lottery... Or something, idk how they think.

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I would gather if I looked into it. You'd be wrong.

But to educate you. Before Obamacare was even a thing, Americans as a whole, payed twice what the second highest paying country in the world paid. Twice. That is two times higher than second place.

But, that's not all, we have the 29th highest rated healthcare system in the world, some of the highest mortality rates and the highest new-mother mortality rate in the first world.

So not only do we pay substantially more than anywhere else, but what we got for our money is shit. Not to mention that our system basically requires that a portion of the population not have healthcare access to survive as it is.

So... go ahead and look into it.

[Caolela]

They are inefficient because 50% of our politicians make it that way on purpose. That's like saying the horse is inefficient at pulling the carriage, when republicans are busy tossing a 500 billion dollar military budget on it's back.

Actually, S.S. is one of THE most efficiently run programs ever, public or private:

The table below shows Social Security administrative expenses, by trust fund. Since 1989, such expenses have totaled one percent or less of combined expenditures from the trust funds.

I'd like to see anything in the private sector insurance or health care rackets...I mean industries...get anywhere close to that.


https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/admin.html

[Vash The Stampede]

First off, bullshit. Obamacare is a scam.

People don't realize that Obamacare is meant to help insurance companies, not hurt them. We were a couple of steps away from Universal Health Care, but Obamacare is meant to keep this insurance system going for a while longer. Basically Obamacare shifted costs to consumers to relieve the government, cause before the system was costing the government a fortune. The best solution is Universal Health Care, but insurance companies lobby far too well. Ask Hillary Clinton.

Obamacare is better than before, but as a temporary solution before switching over to Universal Health Care. Can't keep Obamacare going much longer.

Mexico has a wall on their southern border to keep illegals out. They don't in the north because nobody wants to cross into Mexico. This country is for American citizens that is CITIZENS. Not Mexico's citizens who want to cross illegally or anyone elses citizens.

Don't think you get the joke.

[Celista]

(source)
It all proves that a healthcare system run by giant for-profit firms is a system designed to avoid sick people.

Yup. Aetna has been historically one of the worst offenders of this.

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All working as intended.

Crash healthcare, make the common idiots beg for single payer, aka .gov healthcare. = full blown socialism/control incoming. '

I HATE Globalists/Leftists.

Tinfoil hat on much?

[Jinpachi]

I am aware. That was my point. The average household has two working adults. They pull in about 51,k per year as the average. That means some people make more, some make less.

So when someone rolls up like making 30k+ is the defacto standard, I wonder where they live cause it isn't America.

lol old stats perhaps, or maybe they got it from one of those super accurate facebook memes

[Jibjub]

You obviously have no clue what "the facts is..." [sic]. S.S. will not run out of money as has been shown, but you can keep with your Orwellian version spouted by Fox and CNN.

Your getting hung up on semantics. Of course it won't "run out" (as long as there are people working and paying taxes, which will likely go way up because the number of people working will start to decrease) ... but I won't be getting 100% returns. And, depending on your age, you probably won't be either.

[Danner]

Humanitarian Ideal:
- Society is served by having a healthcare sector where people who get sick/injured can get treatment.
- The healthcare sector services should be available to everyone, no matter your lot in life.

US Right wing ideal:
- Healthcare services should be a service available only to people who can afford it.
- Poor people are not welcome, and are encouraged to die in a way as painful as possible, elsewhere.

I never understood this US right wing attitude. Nobody in the rest of the world understands the US right wing attitude. It's a scenario where a people tripping on vindictiveness, pettyness, and schadenfreude all decide to make life as terrible as possible for as many people as possible, under the pretext of an ideal of a minimal state. It's the same people who hundreds of years ago were complaining about public schooling, and actively opposed the introduction of sewage systems.

In this aspect, the US right wingers are no different whatsoever from the hardened european communist activists of the early 1900s. They wanted a communist state, no matter the cost and torment it brought to the people around them. Ideals before rationality. Exactly the same mindset, just with polar opposite ideals.

That's not to say those idealists doesn't have a point!

I can totally appreciate the argument that organized health care is a near unwieldy thing to handle. My country spends 70% of its GDP on its public health care service sector, and it's generally lacking in many aspects - to say it is working as intended is a fat lie. Money isn't spent right. Doctors spend more time on paperwork than patients. Our public healthcare organizations are anything but agile, and if our military was organized as our health care system, invading armies would be expected to fill out 3 forms at least 6 months in advance before commencing sneak attacks. (Which incidentally, is the case, but that's a different topic).

I do not believe the US system is better. Private hospitals are indeed more cost effective, and better at getting efficiency for the money. But all that effectiveness is lost multiple times over once the hospital owners take that efficiency gain as profit, and the first victim of that agenda is the very humanitarian ideals we were aiming for. As long as the system allows profit, there is no possible way someone isn't coming out worse than the public healthcare system. There is no country in the world where hospital bills are as insane as in the US. I can think of no rationality behind a routine appendix surgery costing $180.000. The private US system is massively more broken than the public health care system in Norway no matter how you look at it, even if the service for billionaires is far better in the US. Americans need insurance against getting sick, for heaven's sake. That is all kinds of fucked up!

I'm all up for making the health sector better and more cost effective. People with a right-wing mindset is usually very effective at these things, and I would love for the right wingers to focus on improving what is there, both in Norway and the US. But as long as those ideals of screwing everyone over get in the way of that - then the status quo is what remains.

[Shadowferal]

They want you to think the corporations are more efficient than government, right? You want to know why the health care industry's the most profitable business in the United States? Cause the insurance companies take twenty-four cents out of every dollar that's spent. You know what it takes the government to do the same thing for Medicare? Three cents out of every dollar. Now, what is all this crap they hand you about business being more efficient than government? These guys need to be regulated. What do you think, that these pigs are going to regulate themselves?
~ Jay Bulworth
------------

Actually it's worse than that...

But there's a reason why people in red-states seem to think that Medicare is better than private insurance..