Simulationcraft results for 7.0 Legion PrePatch

[Deleted]

sorry but im pretty new...how can i read the linked sims?
need to look only T19M right?

T19P = Pre Raid Gear
T19H = Heroic Raid Gear
T19M = Mythic Raid Gear

Keep in mind they are not updated at the same time, so check the date especially cross spec. There are still huge swings from update to update.

In my opinion T19P is the most valuable at the moment as it shows the standings before progressing, T19M basically shows the standings AFTER progress where DPS doesn't really matter that much until the next content is out.

[bigsuirlife]

T19P = Pre Raid Gear
T19H = Heroic Raid Gear
T19M = Mythic Raid Gear

Keep in mind they are not updated at the same time, so check the date especially cross spec. There are still huge swings from update to update.

In my opinion T19P is the most valuable at the moment as it shows the standings before progressing, T19M basically shows the standings AFTER progress where DPS doesn't really matter that much until the next content is out.

cool ty

[Deleted]

Since the T19M profiles are wildy incosistent, i took a look at the sims used to compare legendaries. They all use similar gear and it looks like Assa is going to be firmly ahead of sub in both pre-raid and mythic gear, with and without their best legendaries. It should be noted that the Sub Artifact seems to lack the proper relics but that won't be enough to make up for the difference. Sub also needs more Artifact points to reach it's full damage potential so we might not even get close to finishing it before EN Mythic is on farm.
It is also important to keep in mind that these profiles are only for Emerald Nightmare and don't include Set-Boni or the CDR trinket from Nighthold which are both stronger for Assa than for Sub.
Outlaw might be competitive in ST but the huge damage swings thanks to RNG make me question how viable it's going to be for early progress.

[Deleted]

Nevermind.

[Wow]

They will have to do something about that closeness I dont see them leaving it keeping up with the other 2 specs ST then totally destroying them in AOE I also dout they will take it as far as WOD ST.

If they are going to do it they better do it soon and not after people start on artifacts. But I know the later is the more likely time to happen because they are blizzard.

[Kalador]

I don't think so, Subterfuge is way better than 12% dmg modifier (it's not 50% in Subtlety). And Finality is only 30%. Maybe later or if they change again Nightstalker. (Or with DfA when we'll have enough energy)

yeah ok, if its only 12 % i can see why it's not better than subterfuge... Damn those not updated tooltip lol. Thanks for the answer.

[Smaxy]

Since the T19M profiles are wildy incosistent, i took a look at the sims used to compare legendaries. They all use similar gear and it looks like Assa is going to be firmly ahead of sub in both pre-raid and mythic gear, with and without their best legendaries. It should be noted that the Sub Artifact seems to lack the proper relics but that won't be enough to make up for the difference. Sub also needs more Artifact points to reach it's full damage potential so we might not even get close to finishing it before EN Mythic is on farm.
It is also important to keep in mind that these profiles are only for Emerald Nightmare and don't include Set-Boni or the CDR trinket from Nighthold which are both stronger for Assa than for Sub.
Outlaw might be competitive in ST but the huge damage swings thanks to RNG make me question how viable it's going to be for early progress.

Sub seems inferior for progression when you consider how hard it is to get meaningful dps traits in comparison to assn

[Deleted]

@Laurix @Firatha Legendaries only drop from dungeon and raid bosses across all difficulties, emissary caches(those you get from completing 4 specific world quests), and your weekly mythic+ cache in your class hall.

[Kalador]

Legendaries only drop from dungeon and raid bosses across all difficulties, emissary caches(those you get from completing 4 specific world quests), and your weekly mythic+ cache in your class hall.

Off topic: So if your looking for a sub Legendary that means you need to have your loot spec to sub for all that contents ? Going to be pretty hard to get relics for your off specs...

Does anyone have any Idea how rare they really are? Like will we have a couple to chose from by the end of the tier?

[Khas]

Off topic: So if your looking for a sub Legendary that means you need to have your loot spec to sub for all that contents ? Going to be pretty hard to get relics for your off specs...

Does anyone have any Idea how rare they really are? Like will we have a couple to chose from by the end of the tier?

My guess is they will be pretty rare. After all, it's a legendary and looking at previous expansions and Blizzard's logic, there shouldn't be a lot of people wearing them. (excluding WoD ring and MoP cloak). I played beta and had a pretty decent run with dungeons and haven't seen one of them drop. Before they added NPC that sells legendaries on beta I only saw 1 warlock with legendary. There might have been more of people who got them, this is just my experience.

[Aethys256]

Quick question; is the new 'refreshable' attribute the new 'dot.xxx.remains' that was used before?

It's the same a dot.xxx.remains<duration*0.3, with the difference that the duration*0.3 is the duration that you will apply and not the currently on.

About Legion sims, do not trust anything right now.
As of rogues, we will have something out after this week-end which will cover Legion.

[Laurix]

It's the same a dot.xxx.remains<duration*0.3, with the difference that the duration*0.3 is the duration that you will apply and not the currently on.

About Legion sims, do not trust anything right now.
As of rogues, we will have something out after this week-end which will cover Legion.

Awesome! Post it ASAP when it's ready. I want to dive into some numbers and figure out how things are going to look for the future ahead.

[Deleted]

It's the same a dot.xxx.remains<duration*0.3, with the difference that the duration*0.3 is the duration that you will apply and not the currently on.

About Legion sims, do not trust anything right now.
As of rogues, we will have something out after this week-end which will cover Legion.

We all anticipating the release These days there isn't much going on the forums either way!

[Aethys256]

Until I finish the spreadsheet entirely to make the Legion thread, and because "I promised it", you can already look at it :

https://1drv.ms/x/s!Aqwv0VckwWnidXxBKV_biTNzfRY

Be careful to not extrapolate those results outside of their contexts.
I'll explain more in depth everything in the dedicated thread that will pop soon (TM).

ArtifactPaths need a rework so it's not updated (last update was 15 July) and won't be until the end of the week, Stats scaling will be parsed soon, Legendaries will be parsed today aswell. (In fact, it's simmed I just need to adjust my results parser)

Stats plotting is delayed, Trinkets comparison will come during the week.

[Laurix]

Until I finish the spreadsheet entirely to make the Legion thread, and because "I promised it", you can already look at it :

https://1drv.ms/x/s!Aqwv0VckwWnidXxBKV_biTNzfRY

Be careful to not extrapolate those results outside of their contexts.
I'll explain more in depth everything in the dedicated thread that will pop soon (TM).

ArtifactPaths need a rework so it's not updated (last update was 15 July) and won't be until the end of the week, Stats scaling will be parsed soon, Legendaries will be parsed today aswell. (In fact, it's simmed I just need to adjust my results parser)

Stats plotting is delayed, Trinkets comparison will come during the week.

Amazing work, man!

So a few questions/comments while I skimmed over some of the data:

1) Unless Assassination gets a buff it seems to be absolutely worthless to play unless you're not as serious raiding-wise and/or prefer it. It appears Outlaw outperforms it from the get-go, and continues to out scale it. That combined with superior AoE/cleave abilities, what's your opinion on Sin assuming it doesn't get buffed anytime soon?

2) I'm surprised to see Ghostly Strike the best first-tier talent for Outlaw. Maybe I misread, but I was to an understanding Swordmaster was better. The rest of the talents are no surprise.

3) Outlaw having that massive difference in "max dps" is surely due to lucky roll the bones procs. I mean sometimes the stars align, but in general just follow the median dps, right?

4) Which artifact/spec are you focusing on first? As I somewhat expected, Sub scales well long-term, but since it looks very rough pre-mythic (or at least pre-heroic) do you think focusing on Outlaw and having Sub as a secondary (especially since I PvP as well) makes the most sense?

5) What level artifact weapon are these simmed with?

Thanks if you have the time to reply to these questions in advance! I love the Rogue community, you guys do an awesome job.

[omeomorfismo]

only 20k difference between masterplanner/hemo and master poisoner? lulz

[GT4]

Until I finish the spreadsheet entirely to make the Legion thread, and because "I promised it", you can already look at it :

https://1drv.ms/x/s!Aqwv0VckwWnidXxBKV_biTNzfRY

Be careful to not extrapolate those results outside of their contexts.
I'll explain more in depth everything in the dedicated thread that will pop soon (TM).

ArtifactPaths need a rework so it's not updated (last update was 15 July) and won't be until the end of the week, Stats scaling will be parsed soon, Legendaries will be parsed today aswell. (In fact, it's simmed I just need to adjust my results parser)

Stats plotting is delayed, Trinkets comparison will come during the week.

It'd make a lot of sense if you posted the profiles used somewhere. I'm seeing significantly lower numbers for the T19M profiles so I assume you included the passive global damage bonus that artifacts provide?

[Deleted]

3) Outlaw having that massive difference in "max dps" is surely due to lucky roll the bones procs. I mean sometimes the stars align, but in general just follow the median dps, right?

Even when you compare mean dps, outlaw seems significantly ahead of the other two specs.

[Smaxy]

hope sims with Legendaries makes Sin/Sub more viable. Outlaw is okay, but I'd like to play 2 specs instead of one..

[Aethys256]

Amazing work, man!

So a few questions/comments while I skimmed over some of the data:

1) Unless Assassination gets a buff it seems to be absolutely worthless to play unless you're not as serious raiding-wise and/or prefer it. It appears Outlaw outperforms it from the get-go, and continues to out scale it. That combined with superior AoE/cleave abilities, what's your opinion on Sin assuming it doesn't get buffed anytime soon?

2) I'm surprised to see Ghostly Strike the best first-tier talent for Outlaw. Maybe I misread, but I was to an understanding Swordmaster was better. The rest of the talents are no surprise.

3) Outlaw having that massive difference in "max dps" is surely due to lucky roll the bones procs. I mean sometimes the stars align, but in general just follow the median dps, right?

4) Which artifact/spec are you focusing on first? As I somewhat expected, Sub scales well long-term, but since it looks very rough pre-mythic (or at least pre-heroic) do you think focusing on Outlaw and having Sub as a secondary (especially since I PvP as well) makes the most sense?

5) What level artifact weapon are these simmed with?

Thanks if you have the time to reply to these questions in advance! I love the Rogue community, you guys do an awesome job.

1) I would ignore completely Assassination if it stays like this. That's what I'll do and only my opinion.

2) Well, GS is strong :P Also, QD was bugged during sims.

3) Yes.

4) If Outlaw stays like this (which is unlikely imo), I would go for Outlaw/Sub yes. I really see a coming nerf to Outlaw SaberSlash and a buff to Subtlety Nightblade.

5) Rules are the same as SimC, aka T19P : 19 / T19H : 26 / T19M : 34.

It'd make a lot of sense if you posted the profiles used somewhere. I'm seeing significantly lower numbers for the T19M profiles so I assume you included the passive global damage bonus that artifacts provide?

Click on the source.
Everything except Talents due to File Size (and Artifact Paths) is located there :
http://www.aethys.eu/wow/simc/

hope sims with Legendaries makes Sin/Sub more viable. Outlaw is okay, but I'd like to play 2 specs instead of one..

T19M already have the best legendaries possible (in ST at least).