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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Fun View Post
    If Xmen is supposed to be about anti-bigotry then they probably shouldn't make mutants out to be dangerous, nobody would accept people like them if they existed and there is no reason to either.
    By that logic 99% of able bodied humans shouldn't be allowed to exist.

    Let alone people with martial arts, combat, military training and so on.

    Your logic is stupid.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    He's a man who's also a giant, that's one pretty obvious connection. Hank Pym (the original Ant-Man, Giant-Man and several other aliases) passed on his mantle (and Pym-particles or "size magic") to Scott Lang (the second Ant-Man who is seen being recruited in the Ant-Man movie) who passed a Giant-Man suit to the new guy.
    Scott Lang was never Giant-Man.

    Giant Man was Hank Pym and Bill Foster. And yes, this new guy is linked by a nice little thing called "Bad writing" that takes both Henry Pym and Scott out of character just to introduce a new Giant Man.... for some reason.

    Here is a very simple hint if you actually read comic books.

    Henry pym would not want to bury another Giant Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Donald Blake finds the hammer, picks it up and becomes Thor, Journey into Mystery #83, first appearance of Thor. He used to change back to Blake if the hammer was out of his hands more than 60 seconds.

    They actually had to RETCON it that he really is Thor, and it's not just picking up the hammer that makes someone Thor.
    Yes, they did, because they took Thor in a different direction and wanted him to have an extended Mythos. They Retconned it rather early in the Thor run. Notice the trend here?

    The Retcon was Donald Blake held the latent spirit of Thor.

    Eric Masterson held the latent spirit of Thor.

    FemThor took a hammer and now she claims to literally be Thor. Her Situation is more like Beta Ray Bill, except she lacks any honour or the good writing of him.

  3. #263
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    Whats next movies about White black panther
    Yep, they've been there.


  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    What does that even mean ?
    Could you explain how that manifests, please ?
    It just shows he's a clueless moron and would rather have "Cute nonthreatening adventures of stretchy muslim girl" than "The Ballad of Beta Ray Bill"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I never made it to the end of Masterson's time because he was frankly a terrible Thor. Even if he was carrying Thor's soul with him it doesn't change the fact that Eric transformed into "Thor" and starred in the "Thor" comic where people called him "Thor" despite him being the dominant personality with Thor seemingly absent. It's almost identical to the situation with Jane Foster being "Thor" even down to the eye-roll worthy encounter with the absorbing man.
    Nope. Masterson took on the mantle of Thor because he WAS Thor. He had Thor's divine power.

    FemThor is just a lesser Beta Ray Bill whose biggest note in comics right now is being utterly worthless.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    It just shows he's a clueless moron and would rather have "Cute nonthreatening adventures of stretchy muslim girl" than "The Ballad of Beta Ray Bill"
    I just don't understand how a muslim girl is more diverse than some alien man horse.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    has not a dam thing to do with it being a standard straight white dud, I'd be just as ticked if they Replaced Storm with another person even if she was a black Female. Storm is Ororo Munroe....

    It has more to do with whatever Character we've grown attached to pushed from the roll we've grown up with them in.
    That's something every generation has to deal with, a lot of heroes have passed their mantles either temporarily or permanently. It's comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    I mean arguably the most famous writer for X-men, Claremont, Wrote blatant fetish fuel.
    Claremont's run was fantastic, sure it was the 80s so half of it was spacey wacey nonsense, but the other half was great character development that eventually gave us the 90s cartoon everyone loves
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    That's something every generation has to deal with, a lot of heroes have passed their mantles either temporarily or permanently. It's comics.



    Claremont's run was fantastic, sure it was the 80s so half of it was spacey wacey nonsense, but the other half was great character development that eventually gave us the 90s cartoon everyone loves
    It was also created entirely around Claremont masturbating as furiously as possible at each page.

    Turns out, you can have good writers do anything and still be good.

  8. #268
    Banned Nitro Fun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    By that logic 99% of able bodied humans shouldn't be allowed to exist.

    Let alone people with martial arts, combat, military training and so on.

    Your logic is stupid.
    None of this has anything to do with being able to bend metal by just your thoughts nor being able to control other people or being able to destroy whole cities without any effort. Do you think people would let them live with these powers? No, they would be slaughtered instantly because with those powers they are a threat.

    Nobody would feel safe around them or want them in society.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    Scott Lang was never Giant-Man.
    I never said he was, "Second Ant-Man" is how I described him.

    Giant Man was Hank Pym and Bill Foster. And yes, this new guy is linked by a nice little thing called "Bad writing" that takes both Henry Pym and Scott out of character just to introduce a new Giant Man.... for some reason.

    Here is a very simple hint if you actually read comic books.

    Henry pym would not want to bury another Giant Man.
    What do you mean "for some reason?" Giant super-heroes will always have a place in the Avengers, would you prefer it if they'd called him "Really Big Man" for the sake of originality?

    Yes, they did, because they took Thor in a different direction and wanted him to have an extended Mythos. They Retconned it rather early in the Thor run. Notice the trend here?

    The Retcon was Donald Blake held the latent spirit of Thor.

    Eric Masterson held the latent spirit of Thor.

    FemThor took a hammer and now she claims to literally be Thor. Her Situation is more like Beta Ray Bill, except she lacks any honour or the good writing of him.
    Masterson didn't know he held the latent spirit of Thor (it wasn't revealed early in the run,) all we knew was Thor was otherwise disposed (supposedly banished) and a human being who could wield Mjolnir had the power, responsibilities and name "Thor." The same thing happens with Jane Foster (who was granted the name by Odinson, she didn't claim it herself.)

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    Yes, they did, because they took Thor in a different direction and wanted him to have an extended Mythos. They Retconned it rather early in the Thor run. Notice the trend here?

    The Retcon was Donald Blake held the latent spirit of Thor.

    Eric Masterson held the latent spirit of Thor.

    FemThor took a hammer and now she claims to literally be Thor. Her Situation is more like Beta Ray Bill, except she lacks any honour or the good writing of him.
    Wasn't the Donald Blake retcon not until 1983? The character debuted in 1962. I wouldn't call 21 years in "early in the piece".

    Anyway, the retcons kind of prove the point, if it's different from what went before then hey, it's another retcon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    Nope. Masterson took on the mantle of Thor because he WAS Thor. He had Thor's divine power.

    FemThor is just a lesser Beta Ray Bill whose biggest note in comics right now is being utterly worthless.
    How exactly is Eric Masterson being powered up by Mjolnir any different to Jane being powered up by Mjolnir? Do you have any examples of Eric using non-Mjolnir based powers?

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Wasn't the Donald Blake retcon not until 1983? The character debuted in 1962. I wouldn't call 21 years in "early in the piece".

    Anyway, the retcons kind of prove the point, if it's different from what went before then hey, it's another retcon.
    Thor had like a 20 year stopgap when he was not being published at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    How exactly is Eric Masterson being powered up by Mjolnir any different to Jane being powered up by Mjolnir? Do you have any examples of Eric using non-Mjolnir based powers?
    Eric only has Thor's powers when he is directly linked to Thor. He becomes Thunderstrike when he gets his own hammer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Wasn't the Donald Blake retcon not until 1983? The character debuted in 1962. I wouldn't call 21 years in "early in the piece".

    Anyway, the retcons kind of prove the point, if it's different from what went before then hey, it's another retcon.
    Yeah, difference is the Donald Blake Retcon was done to promote better storytelling.

    The one of Jane Foster is stupid shit that has had nothing but stupid stories come out of it.

  13. #273
    By the way, this is from Fantastic Four #11, 1961:




    Marvel got shitposting on their letters page about how Sue Storm is a useless girl, so they took time out to break the fourth wall just to scold their fanbase about it.

    So next time you complain about fem Thor openly addressing the issue in-comic, just remember that it's always been like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    Thor had like a 20 year stopgap when he was not being published at all.
    When was that, the 90s? Thor originally ran from Journey into Mystery #83, 1962 until #502 in 1996 (was retitled The Mighty Thor in 1966).

    http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Thor_Vol_1

    I'm still reading through the 60s on Marvel Unlimited at the moment so I can't comment on the 90s yet :P

    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    Yeah, difference is the Donald Blake Retcon was done to promote better storytelling.

    The one of Jane Foster is stupid shit that has had nothing but stupid stories come out of it.
    Completely your subjective opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    By the way, this is from Fantastic Four #11, 1961:

    Marvel got shitposting on their letters page about how Sue Storm is a useless girl, so they took time out to break the fourth wall just to scold their fanbase about it.

    So next time you complain about fem Thor openly addressing the issue in-comic, just remember that it's always been like that.
    And I'll just remember we're not scolding FemThor for being useless at fighting we're scolding the idea because it's creatively bankrupt and the proof is in the terrible writing of FemThor.

    Think about it. The easiest way to compare how shit FemThor is is to use the ballad of Beta Ray Bill. That Story is the perfect example on how to show Thor's powers being worthy by others, Eric Masterson shows this too.

    Having Odin suddenly be a crazy old man sounding like a spoiled child while not being able to manipulate the hammer's magic reaks of Deus Ex machina and stupidity and it makes me sad that I could write better. I'll even show you.

    Odin shows up, Instantly knows who FemThor is and takes the hammer from Jane Foster. He goes to return it to Thor but Thor is an emotional wreck. Jane is a Dying Cancer patient. Seeing how a fucking cancer patient is able to muster up the courage to be Thor while Thor himself is a indesposed, Odin steps in, Jane is to become Thor on Earth, Thor himself is to stop being a bitch and go on a quest to reclaim the right for the Hammer.

    Queue writing two storyarcs of Jane Handling Thor in Earth, with Thor off doing Cosmic level Quest shenangians. We avoid all the stupidly bad wiritng of FemThor and just skip to what they are trying to do now with Thor finding the Ultimate Thor's Hammer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Completely your subjective opinion.
    Nobody thinks the current Thor run is good. It's basically Eric Masterson with even LESS Thor Mythos and FemThor basically does Nothing ever.

    Coming down from the Godbutcher or Old Thor vs Galactus to that shlock makes me wish for another Thor Hiatus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'd also like to note Masterson was Thor for a VERY SHORT TIME, and not like FemThor who is being pushed as the "New face of Thor"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post

    I'm still reading through the 60s on Marvel Unlimited at the moment so I can't comment on the 90s yet :P
    Oh... we had a Thor in the 90ies.


  15. #275
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    They weren't invented to make social commentary, Stan Lee came up with the idea of mutants because he couldn't be bothered coming up with novel ways to give powers to a new bunch of super-heroes so he decided they were just born that way.

    It's a happy coincidence that they managed to be allegorical to civil rights movements.
    They aren't mutually exclusive things. But it's kind of moot anyway. The xmen have been used as allegories for civil and gay rights for decades and other comics have been politicised for even longer. Superhero comics being political is nothing new, people are just getting pissy when the politics no longer agree with their own.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    What does that even mean ?
    Could you explain how that manifests, please ?
    Currently all of the MCU's leads are white men. Seeing other leads who aren't white men makes the MCU's roster more diverse. Such as, for example a muslim teenager. And that's nice because then more people get to feel represented. It's really not hard to understand.

  16. #276
    What happened to content of character over irrelevancies?

  17. #277
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    The attitude is from the current comics where if a character is a minority then thats all they are. That's what is defining them in the comics. It's not injecting a little diversity its "omg look at this character so diverse, all their experiences and stories must be about that!" The Miles Morales comic even pokes fun at the people being so excited for diverse characters. Why do you think characters like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan get less flak than Female Thor and Sam Wilson? Female Thor is a woman and that's all that defines her in her comic. Sam Wilson is black and that's all that defines him in his comic. It doesn't make for interesting characters. I am actually really disappointed in the Sam Wilson comic.

    And how exactly is a muslim human more diverse than a humanoid horse?
    Humanoid Horse isn't a real world minority. It's like saying wow is diverse because it has dozens of humanoid races, buy boy are the humans still all white. Racial diversity and diversity of character design are not the same thing.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    They aren't mutually exclusive things. But it's kind of moot anyway. The xmen have been used as allegories for civil and gay rights for decades and other comics have been politicised for even longer. Superhero comics being political is nothing new, people are just getting pissy when the politics no longer agree with their own.
    No, I am getting pissy because the stories are shit. We're not seeing ANY new stories from even HALF of these "New and different types" Instead they flit around being boring as fuck. Actually. let me explain something quite easy.

    I like alot of the Legacy guys.

    Sam as Nova is good as it's REALLY close to Dick's older days when he was a self-doubting dumbass who never thought he could be a hero, Sam is the same way, he's not a super scientist or even very smart, he does the right thing through gut instinct and he suffers for it, just like Dick did.

    Miles is 50/50 On one hand, he's a fun guy who just wants to be spiderman, on the other side, he is overpowered and his stories are ALWAYS solved by him hitting something with stingers and it goes down.

    Khamla is adorable, and she is practically a whole new character dealing with whole new issues.

    Cho as Hulk is strange, but I like it, it fits in with the Hulk Mythos of a Psyche part being the Gamma anchor point, with Cho it's his Ego. It helps that his first issue was drawn by Cho and was pretty damn pulp with a fantasy warrior princess who captures dangerous animals.

    New Avengers is also interesting, with Songbird as a main character.

    The issue is honestly, Ironman, Thor and Cap, who are being handled so pisspoorly it just makes their stories boring and lazy.

    I mean, look at the new Riri Williams. She's a random Black woman who comes out of nowhere who designs an iron man suit.

    Yet we ALREADY HAD Lilia Rhodes who was a Black teenage woman who was building Iron men suits, AND she has links to Warmachine AND she was written well AND had coverage in Secret Wars.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Humanoid Horse isn't a real world minority. It's like saying wow is diverse because it has dozens of humanoid races, buy boy are the humans still all white. Racial diversity and diversity of character design are not the same thing.
    Why do they need to be Racially Diverse?

  19. #279
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimniruk View Post
    And I'll just remember we're not scolding FemThor for being useless at fighting we're scolding the idea because it's creatively bankrupt and the proof is in the terrible writing of FemThor.

    Think about it. The easiest way to compare how shit FemThor is is to use the ballad of Beta Ray Bill. That Story is the perfect example on how to show Thor's powers being worthy by others, Eric Masterson shows this too.

    Having Odin suddenly be a crazy old man sounding like a spoiled child while not being able to manipulate the hammer's magic reaks of Deus Ex machina and stupidity and it makes me sad that I could write better. I'll even show you.

    Odin shows up, Instantly knows who FemThor is and takes the hammer from Jane Foster. He goes to return it to Thor but Thor is an emotional wreck. Jane is a Dying Cancer patient. Seeing how a fucking cancer patient is able to muster up the courage to be Thor while Thor himself is a indesposed, Odin steps in, Jane is to become Thor on Earth, Thor himself is to stop being a bitch and go on a quest to reclaim the right for the Hammer.

    Queue writing two storyarcs of Jane Handling Thor in Earth, with Thor off doing Cosmic level Quest shenangians. We avoid all the stupidly bad wiritng of FemThor and just skip to what they are trying to do now with Thor finding the Ultimate Thor's Hammer.
    Your entire argument here is that you don't LIKE the story. You haven't provided anything to justify calling it objectively BAD. And really, the only real reason you've given for not liking it basically boils down to "girls have cooties" or something.

    You've also got a pretty darned weird position on quality of writing with regards to comic books.

    We're talking about a book that had moments like this, with the "real" Thor;



    His awesome Thor powers of THROWING HIS VOICE, to distract a gangster. Wheee. Such quality top-shelf writing, that.

    Nobody thinks the current Thor run is good.
    Sure doesn't seem to actually be the case; sales are up. http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/82...-by-30-percent


  20. #280
    To be fair, I don't care if they change the characters gender or color, but the writing is terrible in some of the new ones "It's actually about ethics in hammer wielding" or Wonder Woman using her lasso of truth on someone then said he was "mansplaining"

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