[Legion] Feral or Balance in Legion?

[Dizson]

Which one is looking better dps wise in Legion raids at max level?

[Lucrece]

Feral's single target DPS is significantly better. Much, much harder to play well and get results out of.

Balance druid aoe/cleave is better. And they're ranged DPS, which is always more desired over melee. Balance druid is also one of the easiest, simplest caster specs to play in legion.

[Deleted]

Even more easy than playing a mage / warlock ?
What class is "easy" for one might be a mess to another.
Also, people should be playing what they feel is the most fun really. I don't get why people asks what is better. A lot of stuff can be changed in a hot fix, and boom the class you were playing "just because it is better" all of a sudden is one of the worst.
If I loved playing boomkin I would stick with it for better or worse.
I even played my arms warrior in WOD- just as an example. For raiding everyone was fury- but I still played arms because I liked it better.

[paror]

Even more easy than playing a mage / warlock ?
What class is "easy" for one might be a mess to another.
Also, people should be playing what they feel is the most fun really. I don't get why people asks what is better. A lot of stuff can be changed in a hot fix, and boom the class you were playing "just because it is better" all of a sudden is one of the worst.
If I loved playing boomkin I would stick with it for better or worse.
I even played my arms warrior in WOD- just as an example. For raiding everyone was fury- but I still played arms because I liked it better.

Even tho I agree. This is not how it works in mythic raiding even if its a 1000+ guild. A gm/officers will know best specs for the class and assign accordingly. Having said that I think for raiding Moonkin is in the better spot at the moment, Dungeons I feel Feral is better

[Lucrece]

Even more easy than playing a mage / warlock ?
What class is "easy" for one might be a mess to another.
Also, people should be playing what they feel is the most fun really. I don't get why people asks what is better. A lot of stuff can be changed in a hot fix, and boom the class you were playing "just because it is better" all of a sudden is one of the worst.
If I loved playing boomkin I would stick with it for better or worse.
I even played my arms warrior in WOD- just as an example. For raiding everyone was fury- but I still played arms because I liked it better.

Balance druid is easier than a warlock. Much more to juggle as a demo warlock/affliction warlock, even destro snapshotting mehcanisms with eradication and roaring blaze not to mention wreak havoc than a balance druid needs to worry about.

Easy is not a bad thing. Take for example frost DK, stupidly easy, was powerful regardless. For the vast majority of people, including those sub top 100, Easy= Better Average Performance.

You can tell a guy playing feral will be fine, but if you expect the majority of average players to not be trash as feral playing Jagged Wounds/Savage Roar/Blood Talons while snapshotting all those three buffs alongside tiger's fury into moonfire, rake, and rip, not running out of energy or cp at the wrong times, you're being quite naive.

[teddabear]

Too soon to tell. The real question is which specs will receive major tuning changes before or when raids start?

My biggest concern is that the methodology behind Feral changes in Legion has been very haphazard and disconcerting. I would not pick it as a main spec without a solid backup. Because of Artifacts you are actually better off picking a different class for your backup spec.

[dennisdkramer]

You can tell a guy playing feral will be fine, but if you expect the majority of average players to not be trash as feral playing Jagged Wounds/Savage Roar/Blood Talons while snapshotting all those three buffs alongside tiger's fury into moonfire, rake, and rip, not running out of energy or cp at the wrong times, you're being quite naive.

This. Feral's difficulty is un-fucking-touched by any other class when playing the most complicated (and best pve) talents. Boomkin honestly does seem very very easy to me as long as you have a couple weakauras

[Tyze]

Just borrowing the thread. Im gonna aim as Boomkin but prepared to play Feral if needed.

Which is better in mythic + dungeons?

[Nythiz]

Just judging by the toolkit I would say balance has a slightly better kit for a lot of things.

Feral can be godlike in single target damage, but getting all that juice out of the spec can be really hard. And feral AoE is still pretty poor at best; unless there aren't very many mobs and they all live long (aka being able to multidot them all) your performance will be mediocre at best.
Artifact doesn't seem to really bring much exciting to the spec either to be frank.

Moonkin has a few better tools for some of this stuff. Still very potent single target damage, that is a lot less unforgiving compared to feral. AoE wise balance is in a lot better state, as it's easier to both swap target and to do AoE damage in general.
The biggest drawback of moonkin (and to a degree maybe both specs) is the build up. I think the moon spells are going to help balance a bit in Legion itself, but it takes ages to build up Astral Power to get your AoE going.

It's too early to tell. I think both specs will be fine to bring along for raids.
I think in these situations that both specs have some strong suits and if you're good at playing them you can do just fine. I would put balance ahead here for the sole reason that there are generally only 4-6 melee spots to divide, and there are other melee more suited (or even required) for some of those spots.

For mythic+ dungeons I doubt either would be super good. Not saying they're bad, but I think many other casters and melee are miles ahead (gameplay + toolkit wise; I'm not talking numbers here). That said, both should perform well enough if played right. Also depends a lot on the type of fights; boomkin has the edge on AoE, but has a much harsher build up before you can deal decent damage. Might not be an issue if you chain pull though.

- - - Updated - - -

Just borrowing the thread. Im gonna aim as Boomkin but prepared to play Feral if needed.

Which is better in mythic + dungeons?

Really hard, if not impossible to predict. Both don't seem very good if you look purely at the toolkit and compare that to some other classes/specs.

It also depends a lot on the type of encounters and the specific affixes/suffixes of the mythic+.
If I had to guess, I'd have to say balance; purely because feral is still a bit lackluster on the AoE damage. Balance has some build up time though, which can be an issue in mythic+, so it can swing either way.

[Lucrece]

Balance is the less shitty of the shit options you have between both for mythic+ dungeons. Both are ramp up specs, but balance at least has aoe worth mentioning. And it's a ranged DPS spec in mythic dungeons which have lots of punishing mechanics for melee.

[Agartha]

Once you spend a decent amount of time as feral it's hard to play other classes. It's the only spec where I still have to actively pay attention to the rotation 3 years later. Feral will always have good single target pretty much guaranteed so it's a safe bet. And with wod combo point system that single target translates into good cleave. AOE is subpar but that's the price you pay.

Boomkin to me is such a far cry from how nuanced it was in mop I can't stand playing it. In fact I would say feral is the only spec whose rotation has survived "streamlining" if complexity interests you.

[Deleted]

just so you know, all classes and all speccs will be able to get mythic dungeon +15 done, some sooner than others ofcourse, but there's not really any point in arguing about it unless you for some reason need to get a +15 done ASAP, at which point I can tell you it won't happen until you have nighthold gear.

Feralwise, I really like it on beta, certainly, our aoe isnt top notch, but a class cant be super mega OP in everything, and "rotation" wise it feels like the only class that's fun and rewarding when you are able to play it properly. Also, I haven't seen a feral play with LI/SR/JW and BT, for me when it's cleave fights, i run LI/SR/ST/BT, still get really good results, its near impossible to have LI/SR/JW and BT atleast 870ilvl below, you need MASSIVE haste for it to work. single target fights i ALWAYS run with BS/SR/JW/BT, takes awhile to get the hang of using TF and BT charges properly + managing energy, but once you do get the hang of it, oh the fun just begins.

haven't tried boomkin much but from what I have tested it's just dull and boring, maybe like previous post said, it's hard to play another class when you've learned feral. But boomkin for me just didnt work so can't really comment on them.

From what I've seen on beta, if you are concerned about doing mythic + early, put 13 points in either resto or guardian artifact instead, both guardian and resto are top tiers for mythic+. I did the first +6 mythic dungeons as guardian, then went feral above it, due to mobs living longer and the bleeds actually got time to tick >.< and when I play mythic dungeons i pretty much always run LI-incarn-ST and BT, sometimes SotF or brutal slash depending on trash packs. ST helps alot to keep 3+ rips active at all times.

Sorry for long post and not optimal english I guess, but did read through it 4 times before posted =P

[Kjarl Grimblood]

just so you know, all classes and all speccs will be able to get mythic dungeon +15 done, some sooner than others ofcourse, but there's not really any point in arguing about it unless you for some reason need to get a +15 done ASAP, at which point I can tell you it won't happen until you have nighthold gear.

Feralwise, I really like it on beta, certainly, our aoe isnt top notch, but a class cant be super mega OP in everything, and "rotation" wise it feels like the only class that's fun and rewarding when you are able to play it properly. Also, I haven't seen a feral play with LI/SR/JW and BT, for me when it's cleave fights, i run LI/SR/ST/BT, still get really good results, its near impossible to have LI/SR/JW and BT atleast 870ilvl below, you need MASSIVE haste for it to work. single target fights i ALWAYS run with BS/SR/JW/BT, takes awhile to get the hang of using TF and BT charges properly + managing energy, but once you do get the hang of it, oh the fun just begins.

haven't tried boomkin much but from what I have tested it's just dull and boring, maybe like previous post said, it's hard to play another class when you've learned feral. But boomkin for me just didnt work so can't really comment on them.

From what I've seen on beta, if you are concerned about doing mythic + early, put 13 points in either resto or guardian artifact instead, both guardian and resto are top tiers for mythic+. I did the first +6 mythic dungeons as guardian, then went feral above it, due to mobs living longer and the bleeds actually got time to tick >.< and when I play mythic dungeons i pretty much always run LI-incarn-ST and BT, sometimes SotF or brutal slash depending on trash packs. ST helps alot to keep 3+ rips active at all times.

Sorry for long post and not optimal english I guess, but did read through it 4 times before posted =P

I wonder where you taking this info from?
People are horrified they will never be invited with certain specs like affliction warlocks, elemental shamans and shadow priests.

[Deleted]

well, for starters, you really think blizzard would create a game mechanic that is impossible for a certain class to complete? If that's the case, I can't help you =P certain classes will take longer to get to +15, due to they will require more gear than the others. But its not impossible to get to +15 with a class, and I dont see how elemental shamans came into the picture? they are absolutely fine for mythic+, since EQ totem doesnt have a DR so can chain knockdown adds.

But sure, ofcourse people are horrified with long ramp up time speccs, and ofcourse instant high dmg classes will be priority to get early for pugs. Get yourself a guild, or 4 friends to play with that dont discriminate because of class, every class brings its own + and - . Can't stand people whining because a class looks like its shit, its still beta aswell, tuning is done all the time.

Friend I'm playing with on beta is playing SP and I'm playing feral, and we are farming +8, just because its easier atm. Could do +10 depending on affix.

[Kjarl Grimblood]

well, for starters, you really think blizzard would create a game mechanic that is impossible for a certain class to complete? If that's the case, I can't help you =P certain classes will take longer to get to +15, due to they will require more gear than the others. But its not impossible to get to +15 with a class, and I dont see how elemental shamans came into the picture? they are absolutely fine for mythic+, since EQ totem doesnt have a DR so can chain knockdown adds.

But sure, ofcourse people are horrified with long ramp up time speccs, and ofcourse instant high dmg classes will be priority to get early for pugs. Get yourself a guild, or 4 friends to play with that dont discriminate because of class, every class brings its own + and - . Can't stand people whining because a class looks like its shit, its still beta aswell, tuning is done all the time.

Friend I'm playing with on beta is playing SP and I'm playing feral, and we are farming +8, just because its easier atm. Could do +10 depending on affix.

Blizzard left classes broken for an entire expansion and you tell me it cannot happen again?

[Deleted]

you will be able to do +15, just will require more gear to do it

[Shadow Fox]

Think I'm leaning Boomkin as my go-to caster.. Feral is fun with the changes, a lot more uptime, but I just could really get into it. A lot of the roles change so much, and so differently (Mostly for the better), but the playstyles haven't kept me interested.

I've been on the fence between Boomkin and Ele Shaman for my Caster choice... From what I'm understanding, they are both really close to each other, but Ele is lacking some survival from what I've heard?

[teddabear]

you will be able to do +15, just will require more gear to do it

Who is going to take you? It isn't proving grounds. That is the core issue that Blizzard loves to ignore.

[Deleted]

https://embed.gyazo.com/2dbe9cf72a56...28c23eb6f1.png here u have latest simcraft aswell

[Ripitgood]

Just judging by the toolkit I would say balance has a slightly better kit for a lot of things.

Feral can be godlike in single target damage, but getting all that juice out of the spec can be really hard. And feral AoE is still pretty poor at best; unless there aren't very many mobs and they all live long (aka being able to multidot them all) your performance will be mediocre at best.
Artifact doesn't seem to really bring much exciting to the spec either to be frank.

Moonkin has a few better tools for some of this stuff. Still very potent single target damage, that is a lot less unforgiving compared to feral. AoE wise balance is in a lot better state, as it's easier to both swap target and to do AoE damage in general.
The biggest drawback of moonkin (and to a degree maybe both specs) is the build up. I think the moon spells are going to help balance a bit in Legion itself, but it takes ages to build up Astral Power to get your AoE going.

It's too early to tell. I think both specs will be fine to bring along for raids.
I think in these situations that both specs have some strong suits and if you're good at playing them you can do just fine. I would put balance ahead here for the sole reason that there are generally only 4-6 melee spots to divide, and there are other melee more suited (or even required) for some of those spots.

For mythic+ dungeons I doubt either would be super good. Not saying they're bad, but I think many other casters and melee are miles ahead (gameplay + toolkit wise; I'm not talking numbers here). That said, both should perform well enough if played right. Also depends a lot on the type of fights; boomkin has the edge on AoE, but has a much harsher build up before you can deal decent damage. Might not be an issue if you chain pull though.

How would other classes out pace Druids in terms of a DPS slot? I do agree that as to which spec, Boomkin/Feral is up to the player/group's composition. As well as feral being exponentially harder than well really any other class as of right now. But I'm not sure where another DPS class would bring more to the table. A good Boomkin with AC (1.3min CD) can artificially produce the needed power to get their AOE going fairly quickly (Mind you not every time) but easily enough to be competitive while also bring other CD's to the group, (Snares, Stuns, BR, Resto Affinity, etc).