PSA: You want to use Fel Rush even without Momentum.

[Ribesal]

It's different than just lag, Every time it's happened the Fel Rush hasn't stopped till i hit a solid object, There's clearly something else fucked up

I would say it was just coincidence. I wanted to enter the demon hunter class hall on beta, but thanks to lags i rushed to far, so i wanted to rush back and then i flew over the whole broken isles and just glitched over mountains and other objects until i stopped mid air in Highmountain.

Haven't encountered this on live until now.

[Schizoide]

I think I'll just choose to do a bit less damage by not spamming Fel Rush until they make a change so it's not mandatory. Not too interested in dashing through my target every few seconds.

Skipping fel rush and vengeful retreat rotationally means you lose 20% of your total damage, according to the latest simcraft. It's not a "bit less damage". It's the difference between performing like other DPS specs and well, sucking.

Moral to the story is this-- If you don't want to use fel rush rotationally, you should not main a DH.

DH_Havoc_T19P: 248.6k DPS
DH_Havoc_T19P taking Nemesis, no Fel Rush/Vengeful Retreat: 207.4k DPS (-19.8%)

[Deleted]

I think I'll just choose to do a bit less damage by not spamming Fel Rush until they make a change so it's not mandatory. Not too interested in dashing through my target every few seconds.

Fel Rush has been a core damage ability since the very first time they showed off the Demon Hunter last year...I don't think they're changing that one...

[Schizoide]

I don't think they will either. But they should. They should allow players to spec out of using it rotationally.

Unlike every other class, Demon Hunters only have two specs and one of them is immutable.

Talents are supposed to be game-changers, to allow you to customize your playstyle. Havoc really doesn't have that, because you're essentially locked-in to 5 out of 7 talents. Sure you can pick alternatives to some of them, but there's no point, because you will be repositioning rotationally and all those 5 talents support that playstyle and are the highest performers, cumulatively by a large margin.

If repositioning rotationally was worth ~5% total damage through a combination of base ability tuning and talents, players could make a real choice about how to play. All the hardcore, min/maxers, and those that actually enjoy repositioning would do it, same as now. And those of us that are either casual or hate repositioning could opt-out of that gameplay, technically sacrificing damage to do so. But in reality, if you hate how something plays, how well will you really execute it?

[Pigglix]

i dont mind fel rush at all, what pisses me off is Prepared making VR to be part of the rotation, i dont know why, but i -hate- to use that to keep momentum buff.

If only they make felblade baseline and switch VR to felblade to proc momentum with prepared, would be waaaaaaaay better imo.

Or, just give the Pandemic treatment to the Momentum buff, so i could VR then FR back to the target.

And no, i hate even more DB, so there's not really a choice on that row for me.

[Schizoide]

Or, just give the Pandemic treatment to the Momentum buff, so i could VR then FR back to the target.

This alone would be a huuuuuuuuuuuuge QoL improvement.

[Infective]

I don't think they will either. But they should. They should allow players to spec out of using it rotationally

most everyone here is going to outright disagree with that.

[Kainslife]

Talents are supposed to be game-changers, to allow you to customize your playstyle. Havoc really doesn't have that,

Not only does Havoc absolutely have that playstyle customization, every single other class in the game has certain abilities that are locked in as part of every rotation. A mage has absolutely no way to spec out of Ice Lance or Frost Bolt, a warrior cannot spec out of Bloodthirst or Rampage, a rogue cannot spec out of Mutilate or Rupture. DH is no different in this regard.

Fel Rush is to DH as Bloodthirst is to a Fury warrior as Ice Lance is to a Frost Mage.

[Deleted]

most everyone here is going to outright disagree with that.

and they are right to disagree. If u would have a "build" or "playstyle" without Felrush, they would kill the whole idea of the specc. From the beginning they introduced DH with Felrush beeing used to do dmg. It is NOT a "move from A to B out of combat" Skill.

I mean, I get it, many People dont like moving round in fight. Okay. I can understand that. What I do NOT understand is, that those people want to play Havoc!? I mean where is the logic here, Blizz comes out with a new class, telling and showing us the core of the class, and some of you just say..uh..no..I dont want to Fel Rush, please change/give us an option to that. Why should they? Beeing mobile in combat is their Idea of the Specc! If u dont like it, dont play it? THAT is what I dont understand.

if you wanna talk about options and changes, we can discuss about the Talents, nerf momentum or buff the other 2...Felblade baseline maybe? or at least even on singletarget fights with bloodlet so we have this for single target, this for cleave..this for this and that, situational....that would offer some other playstyles than momentum.

But complaining about having to use Felrush is like...saying I want to play Firemage and not using Hotstreak Proccs because you like casting it more...

- - - Updated - - -

Not only does Havoc absolutely have that playstyle customization, every single other class in the game has certain abilities that are locked in as part of every rotation. A mage has absolutely no way to spec out of Ice Lance or Frost Bolt, a warrior cannot spec out of Bloodthirst or Rampage, a rogue cannot spec out of Mutilate or Rupture. DH is no different in this regard.

Fel Rush is to DH as Bloodthirst is to a Fury warrior as Ice Lance is to a Frost Mage.

thanks...exactly this.

[Schizoide]

most everyone here is going to outright disagree with that.

Hahahahah no. That would involve everybody agreeing on something, and that will never happen.

I personally can't understand why anyone would argue against the option of a different playstyle, but rather than saying I think you're all trolls, I'll just say I strongly disagree and leave it at that.

Anyway, if I was a dev my primary concern would be that tons of players will switch mains to Havoc, because DHs are new, and they have awesome animations and class fantasy. Then they'll hit 110 and learn that they absolutely MUST reposition rotationally. That's a highly polarizing gameplay element, and the game doesn't really inform the player that they MUST fel rush every 10s when they choose the class. So they'll be surprised.

Some people won't mind, and some will absolutely despise it. And some of the latter will stick with Havoc anyway, hating every second of it, because that's their raid spot or whatever. Either repositioning all the time, or losing 20% of their DPS. And those will be unhappy customers.

[Deleted]

I have seen people doing fel rush in place using stuff like Razer Synapse. Blizzard has to either make fel rush+space bar result in not moving forward (which on second thought they can't cuz double jump/glide/fel rush combo) or give us a second fel rush that only does damage and shares charges with the original fel rush.

any other ways so fix this? anyone?

[Sluvs]

I don't get the issue here.

Is the issue the momentum build? If you don't like how it plays dont pick the talents.

Is the issue that fel rush is a must even without fel mastery and momentum? Bring to blizzards attention so they cant tune it properly.

[Schizoide]

I have seen people doing fel rush in place using stuff like Razer Synapse.

Yes, you move backwards, jump, glide, then fel rush and it cancels the animation. It's a bit tricky to do. Supposedly there's a simple macro that works also but I haven't tried it. You jump then hit the macro.

#showtooltip Fel Rush
/use Glide
/use Fel Rush

@Sluvs: The issue is that fel rush must be used rotationally even without fel mastery and momentum and there's no way to spec out of that.

[Sluvs]

Yes, you move backwards, jump, glide, then fel rush and it cancels the animation. It's a bit tricky to do. Supposedly there's a simple macro that works also but I haven't tried it. You jump then hit the macro.


@Sluvs: The issue is that fel rush must be used rotationally even without fel mastery and momentum and there's no way to spec out of that.

Didn't blizzard said that they did not want this to be the case? From what I remember they said they want to make all talent options viable, some with simple rotation other a bit more complicated.

[jayinjersey]

If Fel Mastery were not the only...by a sinnisterly huge amount...worthwhile talent that row I'm sure FRush on cool down vs FRush not on cool down would look a bunch different.

[Schizoide]

@Sluvs: That has always been the design goal, yes. We're supposed to be able to pick whatever talents we want. But that has never actually happened.

@jayinjersey: Even without Fel Mastery and Momentum, you need to reposition rotationally.

DH_Havoc_T19P: 248.6k DPS
DH_Havoc_T19P, Blind Fury/Nemesis: 228.9k DPS (-8.6%)
DH_Havoc_T19P, Blind Fury/Nemesis, not using Fel Rush/Vengeful Retreat: 210.8k DPS (-17.9%)

[Wingwraith]

I've been using Fel Rush as much as possible to prepare myself. And I wouldn't mind it so much if it weren't buggy as hell...
Sometimes I go 50 yards; sometimes I don't move at all.
Good times...

[Sluvs]

@Sluvs: That has always been the design goal, yes. We're supposed to be able to pick whatever talents we want. But that has never actually happened.

@jayinjersey: Even without Fel Mastery and Momentum, you need to reposition rotationally.

DH_Havoc_T19P: 248.6k DPS
DH_Havoc_T19P, Blind Fury/Nemesis: 228.9k DPS (-8.6%)
DH_Havoc_T19P, Blind Fury/Nemesis, not using Fel Rush/Vengeful Retreat: 210.8k DPS (-17.9%)

Ok, so what we have to do is elaborate that to blizz so they can change it right? Probably buff other talents and nerf the damage of fel rush untalented.

[jayinjersey]

@jayinjersey: Even without Fel Mastery and Momentum, you need to reposition rotationally.

DH_Havoc_T19P: 248.6k DPS
DH_Havoc_T19P, Blind Fury/Nemesis: 228.9k DPS (-8.6%)
DH_Havoc_T19P, Blind Fury/Nemesis, not using Fel Rush/Vengeful Retreat: 210.8k DPS (-17.9%)

That is because the other two talents are so out of balance.

Chaos Fury vs nothing is barely a difference (and Chaos Cleave is broken)

Chaos Fury needs to buff Eye Beam's damage [EB's normal damage + whatever damage is equal to using the Fury of Fel Mastery's Fel Rush + some bonus damage...let's say 25% of the bonus damage from Fel Mastery cause you don't have to move]


Without a compensation...the other calculations are akin to saying taking something over nothing is always better and I don't like that.

The problem is Tier One....fix that, minimize the problem

[Schizoide]

The severely unbalanced tier1 talents are half of the problem.

The other half is that Fel Rush simply hits way too hard baseline, making its use every 10s absolutely mandatory even with no talents taken into account. My preferred solution to that is to nerf Fel Rush's damage baseline and then buff it back up in Fel Mastery or Momentum.