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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/...teachers-make/

    I misspoke. They make 80k on average. Everything I said still stands. 80k for 8 months work, and that was 4 years ago.
    Your math is still off. You'd need to have a PhD and 9 years on the job to break $80K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    Yep, and I'm suggesting to remove these kids from their families since the families are a clear negative influence.

    If not this, I'd love to hear someone else's idea for a solution.
    That's not too far off. I would suggest that we start with a minimum basic income (which doesn't increase due to having a child), and that we tie a portion of it to any potential children a person has, so that if you lose custody, you lose a portion of your MBI. If we could at the same time end the 'War on Drugs', we could likely start to turn the corner on some of the worst effects of the last 40 years' failed systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saucexorzski View Post
    Next step, living stipends. Voter creation 101.
    It's not voter creation, so much as it is bowing to the reality of an economy primed to lose another 20-40 million jobs to automation over the next 30 years. That's not even considering that, if we were to reorder our social system to more properly reflect non-consumerist behaviors, both for the environment and for our financial health, it could be even worse.
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  2. #22
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/...teachers-make/

    I misspoke. They make 80k on average. Everything I said still stands. 80k for 8 months work, and that was 4 years ago.
    First you are rounding up significantly.

    Second you are using a single source -- the comment of a spokesperson.

    Here are other figures quotes all lower than yours:

    $71k - http://townhall.com/columnists/timbe...crity-n2103607

    $57k - https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Chi..._D_KO23,30.htm

    $56k - http://www1.salary.com/IL/Chicago/Pu...er-Salary.html


    Of course, I'm from the camp that thinks if we want to have quality education we probably need to pay our teachers well to make it an attractive career compared to other private sector jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    That's not true. The article clearly says the average Salary of a Chicago teacher is 76k, not including benefits. I'm not talking about aides, janitors or coaches. Teachers. They're the first or 2nd most paid teachers in the country.
    I also want to know how that figure is calculated. If it is including administrators, particularly superintendents and principals it could be wildly exaggerated for what the actual in-the-room teacher makes.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    That's not true. The article clearly says the average Salary of a Chicago teacher is 76k, not including benefits. I'm not talking about aides, janitors or coaches. Teachers. They're the first or 2nd most paid teachers in the country.
    And the next article that was linked to you has newer information, which indicates that to reach even $76k (which with more schooling, you might agree is less than $80K...) you'd need a Master's degree and 10 years on the job...

    I live in an Ohio suburb that is much cheaper to live in than Chicago, and I make $40K, and my wife makes $52K, and neither one of us has a college degree at all, let alone a Master's, and I have 5 years at my job, and she has less than one.

    By pointing out how relatively highly they're paid relative to other teachers, all you're doing is pointing out how shitty teachers are paid on average.
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  4. #24
    Holy wall of text OP. That's a lot to read for an internet discussion topic.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    No its because they have higher standards and disproportionate amounts of "good" students attending them. While public schools just have every kid in any given district attending by default.
    I don't think that is it either. This guy right here is suggesting it is a wider social problem and I agree with that. If you are sending your children to private school you are invested in them, not just in money but in attitude(generally speaking).

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    First you are rounding up significantly.

    Second you are using a single source -- the comment of a spokesperson.

    Here are other figures quotes all lower than yours:

    $71k - http://townhall.com/columnists/timbe...crity-n2103607

    $57k - https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Chi..._D_KO23,30.htm

    $56k - http://www1.salary.com/IL/Chicago/Pu...er-Salary.html


    Of course, I'm from the camp that thinks if we want to have quality education we probably need to pay our teachers well to make it an attractive career compared to other private sector jobs.

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    I also want to know how that figure is calculated. If it is including administrators, particularly superintendents and principals it could be wildly exaggerated for what the actual in-the-room teacher makes.
    Yeah I am all for high teacher wages, bless the teachers who work in poor areas, you need that 3 month break after dealing with the shitty kids and even more shitty parents.

  7. #27
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    It's way too easy and yet so many people (especially of color) are failing it.

    The nationwide graduation rate is only 80%. That's actually scary. Some major adjustments need to be made to enforce success in school. I don't care if people call me Hitler, or a brainwasher etc., we have too many dumb children who think it's cool to slack off in school.

    If some kid is failing to the extent that he's legally forced to repeat grades, it should be considered whether or not to temporarily remove him from the home and put into a special environment until he decides to actually give a shit.

    Obviously kids with mental disorders wouldn't be put to these standards. But something needs to be done to fix these dumbasses raised by shitty parents. And yes, even if that means more government control.
    I agree and I disagree, however, I have no intent to castigate you.

    As I see it society with its participation trophies, everyone gets a passing grade with no effort at all, and the like are damaging our children in a way that is setting them up to be failures in life and and eventual mindless automatons under state control.

    Children need to be motivated to learn and succeed, which is the opposite of how they are being molded.

    I agree wholeheartedly that the nation's graduation rate is scary and that we have far too many unmotivated children.

    We need to break the cycle of under-educated and unmotivated kids coming from inattentive, under-educated and unmotivated parents, and I dont see how taking the kids breaks that cycle, we have to break that cycle in the schools and ensure that the kids learn that actions have consequences. So I rather disagree with taking the kids and placing them under government control, if you want more government control perhaps reward good teachers and get rid of the bad, and if the unions have a shit fit tell them to fuck off.

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  8. #28
    Unions who put teachers over students can't be helping the outcome.

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    We need to break the cycle of under-educated and unmotivated kids coming from inattentive, under-educated and unmotivated parents, and I dont see how taking the kids breaks that cycle, we have to break that cycle in the schools and ensure that the kids learn that actions have consequences.
    And that's exactly why you'd 'take the kids'. You can't have a child living in poverty and parental neglect 16 hours a day and hope to fix that, let alone teach them anything, in the 6 or 8 hours a school has them.

    I would advocate for in-neighborhood boarding schools where kids can be given structure and standards and care around the clock. I would further advocate that we also put the parents through rigorous training, too, because these problems of generational poverty are only going to be solved by tackling the roots of the issues- not just the symptoms. That means ending the hopelessly failed war on drugs, investing in neighborhood safety in a way that makes lower-income areas more viable to other income groups looking to by homes, and generally building real communities from the ground up.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    All part of the plan to create more Democrat voters. Common core should seal the deal and finish off whatever advantage America might possibly have had to compete with the world.
    Compared to the Republican mantra of just removing education entirely so people will vote that way?

    See how stupid statements are stupid? Try actually having an original thought based in reality.
    Last edited by Dendrek; 2016-08-18 at 10:44 PM.

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Compared to the Republican mantra of just removing education entirely so people will vote that way?

    So how stupid statements are stupid? Try actually having an original thought based in reality.
    If we teach Intelligent Design and that we never had slaves and that the Indians were tired of living here and moved to reservations just to change scenery, that will solve all of our problems.
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  12. #32
    i love how we are compared to every other country when we know those countries don't report the same way we do.



    a lot of these countries do not include the kids whom are living in slums who never see the inside of a school.

  13. #33
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    And that's exactly why you'd 'take the kids'. You can't have a child living in poverty and parental neglect 16 hours a day and hope to fix that, let alone teach them anything, in the 6 or 8 hours a school has them.

    I would advocate for in-neighborhood boarding schools where kids can be given structure and standards and care around the clock. I would further advocate that we also put the parents through rigorous training, too, because these problems of generational poverty are only going to be solved by tackling the roots of the issues- not just the symptoms. That means ending the hopelessly failed war on drugs, investing in neighborhood safety in a way that makes lower-income areas more viable to other income groups looking to by homes, and generally building real communities from the ground up.
    Well shit, if we are going to go 'Full Government'... why not make it like Logan's Run, where the parents never see the kid. Or are you looking for a 1984 kind of scenario? or maybe something else like a selective breeding kind of situation where you disallow undesirables to breed? I think something like that was tried in the past... I cant quite put my finger on what it was called or when it happened. (sarcasm, maybe, maybe not)

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  14. #34
    You can't change the human condition you can only change society, which is man-made.

  15. #35
    Banned sheggaro's Avatar
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    The question is: What do you do about it?

    We spend so much money on it, yet it's worse than other nation's schools who spend far less on it?

    How is that possible? What's causing it?

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer
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    I blame the unions.

    I had an high school teacher who talked about how 9/11 is Bush's fault and how her husband almost died trying to save people from the twin towers as he was a firefighter. I don't think we did anything in that class but talk about Bush and maybe read the newspaper for 20 minutes before she went on her rampage.

  17. #37
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheggaro View Post
    The question is: What do you do about it?

    We spend so much money on it, yet it's worse than other nation's schools who spend far less on it?

    How is that possible? What's causing it?
    Because school funding is tied to property taxes.

    That's a really stupid way to fund schools.

  18. #38
    America has a problem with it's students being math deficient.

    Top professors and math experts have thought on this and came up with the perfect solution.

    Start teaching them earlier. Don't change a thing. Do not find out how a student best learns and try to give students more options. Do not take advantage of these proven programs and like Khan Academy and personalized teaching tools that teachers have said works.

    Nope. Do the same shit that has failed us, but start sooner. And somehow these young kids will not be do just fine and not get stressed out over having to learn abstract math concepts a whole year sooner...



    From what I have learned. Only two kinds of people do well in the U.S. K-12 system.

    1: People who just naturally grasp the concept. Math whizzes for math, or gifted readers for english, so on and so forth.
    2: People who have a home tutor, or a parent at home to teach them properly.

    That is a problem. That shows our system is broken and either the people in charge are fucking morons, or they have no desire to fix it at all.

  19. #39
    Stupid people are easy to control.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Well shit, if we are going to go 'Full Government'... why not make it like Logan's Run, where the parents never see the kid. Or are you looking for a 1984 kind of scenario? or maybe something else like a selective breeding kind of situation where you disallow undesirables to breed? I think something like that was tried in the past... I cant quite put my finger on what it was called or when it happened. (sarcasm, maybe, maybe not)
    I'm looking for a scenario in which we're not expecting thirteen-year olds to raise children by themselves. A scenario in which we don't encourage irresponsible behavior by incentivizing it. A scenario in which we don't perpetuate poverty through failed attempts at prohibition. A scenario in which we don't happily spend $40,000 a year to incarcerate someone, but balk at allowing someone that makes more than $1,600 a year to access Medicaid.

    There's quite a long way between helping rebuild struggling communities with an eye toward them being self-sustaining and going down the rabbit hole into a dystopian future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Because school funding is tied to property taxes.

    That's a really stupid way to fund schools.
    School funding is the smallest part of the problem. We need to address the entire range of issues that lead to blighted areas with poor tax bases. Having the shiniest school around isn't going to fix the kids that go home to rat-infested hell-holes with negligent parents and have to walk to and from school past gang bangers and what-have-you.
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