Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Broskee]

Sounds like you have experience with beta, do you need 4 slots in your bags to hold the artifacts for the other 2 specs?

The artifact weapons only take up 1 spot each

[7empest]

Guys with the nerf to Exsanguinate does agonizing poison level out a bit? I can imagine Exsan still being a good skill for the faster energy returns and on demand burst and quick ticking rupture, but is agonizing still dog shit tier or not as bad an investment? Conflicting information from various sources leads me to this question

[dorfeater]

Guys with the nerf to Exsanguinate does agonizing poison level out a bit? I can imagine Exsan still being a good skill for the faster energy returns and on demand burst and quick ticking rupture, but is agonizing still dog shit tier or not as bad an investment? Conflicting information from various sources leads me to this question

It's been discussed a handful of times in this thread, and other threads on the front page. Use search.

Exsang is far and away better than Agonizing until very high mastery levels.

[7empest]

It's been discussed a handful of times in this thread, and other threads on the front page. Use search.

Exsang is far and away better than Agonizing until very high mastery levels.

When you type in exsanguinate you get a truckload of pages full of results, not everyone has the time to dig through all of them. People can never answer a question with a simple answer on these forums can they. Mr. 18 post count.

[Kuroii]

exsang is good till you get t19 pieces

[Deleted]

I was umder the impression that Sub outscaled Sin?

Are we going away from that again?

People keep referrencing some sims that i cant find anywhere

[Todesbote]

There is no real problem. The exsang nerf took away the uber burst it had and the energy rush that came with it. Currently Sin at the start is a bit sluggish to play because ... energy (as with the start of every expac) but it's a lot better than it has been in prev expacs. Damage numbers are slightly ahead of Sub and slightly below Outlaw's potential max atm (for two weeks) but going forward the sims show Sin ahead in T19. Overall I think all our specs are viable - there's a question about Outlaw being rng ahead on ST so we should all run it because of AOE but there are judgements you have to make there about how long that'll stay that way given Blizzard's patterns with combat nerfs in the past.

This guy gets it. Listen to him. I can confirm that Outlaw currently has the best possible ST dps but it is due to the nature of RnG the Bones. This is put to the extreme in current raiding where most Mythic bosses are dead within 2 minutes. Try starting the fight with a lucky Marked for Death into 50 seconds of 3-buff Rtb and you will demolish every other rogue (or even every other dps) in your raid. A rare 6-buff roll on the opener with potion + ring makes it even more ridiculous.
I can understand how some people love the excitement of sometimes getting really lucky with RtB but from a Mythic raiding standpoint where consistency is king and most players have the desire to compete with other members of their class/spec RtB's rng-factor is the worst that ever happened to rogues.
Also as ominousgiuld mentioned: don't expect everything to stay as it is now. If Outlaw does best AoE and can compete ST this means that they will probably nerf Outlaw damage across the board or AoE specifically - significantly. Expect it.

[Hashcrypt]

The Sin legendary feet and bracers seem VERY strong to me. With artifact traits added in, Vendetta could very well have 100% uptime, giving Sin a flat 30% damage bonus. Then the wrists effectively give Sin a true execute phase, which combined with perma Vendetta and likely 1 or 2 Exang activations....damage could get scary very fast.

Are sims taking into account any legendaries?

[Deleted]

If Outlaw does best AoE and can compete ST this means that they will probably nerf Outlaw damage across the board or AoE specifically - significantly. Expect it.

I don't understand why everyone says Outlaw has to be nerfed... Its AoE is fine, on par with other classes, so is its ST damage. Sin and Sub can't just keep up with it (speaking only about AoE), so buff them?

Outlaw is a unique spec and in my very honest opinion it's balanced as it is, it heavily relies on RNG whereas Sub and Sin don't, some people like it, some other don't and that's fine but when we look at the numbers they're ok, on par with other classes. You can't point the finger at Outlaw and say "it will get nerfed cause it does more aoe damage than sub and sin", so what? Hunters are doing way more than Outlaw, should they get nerfed too? and mages?

[shaunika123]

I don't understand why everyone says Outlaw has to be nerfed... Its AoE is fine, on par with other classes, so is its ST damage. Sin and Sub can't just keep up with it (speaking only about AoE), so buff them?

the AOE spec of a pure DPS class shouldnt compete in ST damage with the ST specs(same reason why fire mages are stupid), and if all 3 specs do equal AOE and ST what's the point of the 3 different specs? and better yet, if one spec does equal ST but better AOE what's the point of the other 2?

but anyway sub will outscale it in ST by next tier probably

[Deleted]

Personally changes should be made to the Assassination spec' are:

- Apply to mastery for Kingsbane, Bag of tricks, From the shadow and Creeping venom.
- Replace Thuggee by Flying daggers (PvP talent) and conversely.
(Thuggee : The Garrote silence effect works out camouflage but its effect silence reduce by 1sec.
- Replace Death from above by Crimson tempest.
- Replace tooltip Venom rush by that of Overkill.
- Small nerf damage Garrote and Rupture.
- (Artifact) Applies Serrated edge and Gushing wound to Garrote.
- Up Agonizing poison.
(4%/4time => 5%/4time or 4%/5time)
- Shadow walker reduces the cooldown of ShadowStep by 3sec.
(Artifact : 3/6/10/13/16/20 sec)
- (Artifact) Shadow swiftness when you use ShadowStep, the cooldown of Sprint is reset.
- Replace Assassin's blades(artifact) by Vile Poisons.
(Your lethal poisons have a chance to resist dispel and damage / effects are to increase by 5%.)

Assassination is a poisons spec' no bleeds spec' ; bleeds spec' is a Feral.

[Deleted]

Can someone explain this logic to me please...
Mastery - "Increases the damage done by your poisons by X%" - affects Envenom.
Master Poisoner - "Increases the damage done by your poisons by 40%" - doesn't affect Envenom.
???????????????????

Fixing Assassination's bad scaling seems obvious - let Master Poisoner boost Envenom's damage which boosts mastery's value as a stat, so a poison build with Master Poisoner will outscale the bleed build with Hemo in BiS gear. No? Just me? Okay.

[Fheng]

Can someone explain this logic to me please...
Mastery - "Increases the damage done by your poisons by X%" - affects Envenom.
Master Poisoner - "Increases the damage done by your poisons by 40%" - doesn't affect Envenom.
???????????????????

Fixing Assassination's bad scaling seems obvious - let Master Poisoner boost Envenom's damage which boosts mastery's value as a stat, so a poison build with Master Poisoner will outscale the bleed build with Hemo in BiS gear. No? Just me? Okay.

i hear you man, I don't understand either. I've been fighting for some talent changes, energy changes, and other things for such a long time now through alpha/beta forums that it doesn't ever seem like they listen. We need talent changes for AoE options at least give us Crimson Tempest back or something, and take away the bleed centered build. I think they should make Agonizing poison a non lethal since it technically doesn't do any damage, while then allowing us to use Deadly poison again, Giving us a more poison like playstyle like Sin class fantasy wise seems to be. I agree with you on making mastery a better stat with some of your proposed changes too. I don't mind the bleed build or Exsang build, but i'd much rather it focus on the poison sneaky aspect of the spec more. Unfortunately, with master poisoner, Agonizing poison as a non lethal with using deadly poison as lethal it might be way too strong and our envenoms would hit so fucking hard it would be way too strong but since master poisoner doesn't effect envenom we might be fine and still be able to keep our Poison dot spec thing going.

[Deleted]

the AOE spec of a pure DPS class shouldnt compete in ST damage with the ST specs(same reason why fire mages are stupid), and if all 3 specs do equal AOE and ST what's the point of the 3 different specs? and better yet, if one spec does equal ST but better AOE what's the point of the other 2?

but anyway sub will outscale it in ST by next tier probably

I still don't agree. Following your logic then nobody should play a pure dps class in Legion cause we can't go balls deep on a single artifact without sacrificing ST or AOE, while ironically speaking a elemental shaman or feral druid (just throwing out class here) are good at both with a single spec, but that's fine cause they're hybrid classes.

See, in a perfect world where all classes and specs ara balanced and they do exactly the same dps both in aoe and st what really make you want to play a particular spec should be its gameplay (if it's hard to master or not, if it fits your playstye etc.) and its fantasy.

However that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.

[Tellof]

feral druid (just throwing out class here) are good at both with a single spec, but that's fine cause they're hybrid classes.

I've spent a pretty good amount of time in the Feral forums the last couple months, and I guarantee that you'd be crucified there if you tried to tell them that they're good at AoE :P The phrase being thrown around a lot is "Single target niche", and Assassination Rogues actually get brought up a lot because they have (historically in beta) even higher Single target, more survivability, and more utility. So, Rogues are not as bad off as some may think.

I think that the spec to aim for with regards to being good in most/all DPS situations are Havoc Demon Hunter, Unholy Death Knight, and Fire Mage. They basically never suck.

[Gilor]

I still don't agree. Following your logic then nobody should play a pure dps class in Legion cause we can't go balls deep on a single artifact without sacrificing ST or AOE, while ironically speaking a elemental shaman or feral druid (just throwing out class here) are good at both with a single spec, but that's fine cause they're hybrid classes.

See, in a perfect world where all classes and specs ara balanced and they do exactly the same dps both in aoe and st what really make you want to play a particular spec should be its gameplay (if it's hard to master or not, if it fits your playstye etc.) and its fantasy.

However that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.

You're not wrong, but it's never ever happened. Blizzard has never managed to get balancing right and as pures that has often been frustrating since it's not that uncommon to see hybrids topping meters with their one dps spec but have the option of different roles while we have to switch specs between fights just to do less dps than them. Anyway the topic has wandered a bit since the initial argument wasn't that strong AOE means you must have weak ST, it's that Blizzard has continually nerfed the ST of combat in the past whenever everyone started playing it because iof the AOE strength. Nobody is arguing that should happen, just being realistic about what Blizzard will do given that we have to focus on one spec's weapons.

[Infect]

All was said here, but anyways, i dont understand why nobody talks about the lack of blind (and maybe gouge too, but specially BLIND)

At this moment, subtlely got blind, and outlaw got blind and gouge. Blizzard removed the "rogue gameplay style" for assassination rogues, and now it feels like a dk or a warr, its just like DPS DPS DPS and kill whatever.

And since that, how can we compare us with subltely and outlaw?? because we cant ninja bases anymore on RBG, or do some decent CC on arena like blind/sap. So nobody will want an assassination rogue on pvp

And the worst point is that blizzard dont bring back blind for assa, build after build they do small changes like exsanguinate nerf (because it was horrrrrrrrrrrrrrible op), but they dont bring back blind.

I play assassination since i started to play wow (like 7 years ago), and for the first time, i only see a black hole for the future of the spec.

Is not about assa is bad, is about assa is ridiculously below subtlely and outlaw on pvp since they removed blind ONLY for assa.

BLIND IS A MUST HAVE FOR ALL ROGUES, Independently of the spec you play.

After all this, is sad that nobody is making noise for this injustice. But when subtlely lost blind on first alpha builds, forums became full of bad feedbacks, and in the end blizz returned blind to subtlely.

Assassination resistance!

[bigsuirlife]

Im watching some video to improve my rotation and i found two opener and i dont know wich its better.
Il ask to you because im pretty noob to rogue (as i say before)

So this is what i've found around on YT
garrote
emo
rupture
muti
vendetta
vanish + rupture
exanguinate
envenom
muti
muti
rupture

or

Garotte
Hemo
Rupture
Vendetta
Mutilate till 6 CP
Vanish
Rupture
Exsanguinate.

which is better?

[Deleted]

First one is a random sequence of abilities, Idk wtf that is.
Second one is correct.

[bigsuirlife]

First one is a random sequence of abilities, Idk wtf that is.
Second one is correct.

dunno..ive this around.