Ashbringer Artifact Progression?

[Empulsiv3]

Just want to gauge the community's opinion on the most solid way to progress Ashbringer in a pure pve sense ie how to best be prepared and min max as much as possible to do mythics asap.

Currently i see 2 ways of going about it because lets face it the only ultimate talent that matters is AtA at the start

First direction is the long way which takes us past the first AP level plateau of 13 (which means it becomes increasingly expensive to level up)
http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...DBIABAAAAAAAAA
First off my reasoning behind the long way is there a less wasted talents early on and maximises out throughput via passive increases to our major abilities.
Pros
-Passive damage increases
- Less wasted talents
Cons
- Hit AP level break point early on
- 1 wasted talent in Enless Resolve
- Wont get AtA till u are 110 and farming surmar and mythics so would be gimping dps till then.

The second direction is of course the short direct route to take to get AtA as early as possible but u will take 4 levels in 2 talents that are better off left to last.
http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...AIIABAAAAAAAAA
You will have AtA by atleast level 105ish with only using 9 levels to have obtained it.
Pros
- Gaining AtA at the earliest point
- Faster Leveling via AtA from 105ish
- only 9 points of AP to reach way before the first AP level break bpoint in cost.

Cons
- Literally 4 points wasted in talents that could of been used in damage
- divine storm damage is negligible
- the cost of gaining the rest of you passive dps talents is myuch higher as u have used more points in less useful talents.

Just some food for thought hope some out there can think of some good arguments to each in which to take on for the start of legion

[Haram]

There are two ways of going about leveling your Ashbringer.

Thete Gaming did a good video on this. The long route is weak for the first couple of weeks or so, but catches up and outperforms the "quick route" after that point.

Here is the link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k7RTuAx3BY

[Deleted]

This was most probably answered before, but;
What level of artifact power can we expect to have at the time-point when we are done with the 4 leveling zones?

NVM: Thete gaming in the video above states it's 11... listening to it as i write this

[caervek]

This was most probably answered before, but;
What level of artifact power can we expect to have at the time-point when we are done with the 4 leveling zones?

NVM: Thete gaming in the video above states it's 11... listening to it as i write this

So this means you can't get the improved ashes attack before you start raiding unless you go the quick and dirty route?

[Deleted]

I would say that the "put 9 points into quick route, pool AP, reset, put points into long route" Thete mentioned would be better, depending on how long it takes to grind out 67k AP from Suramar and dailies. Or maybe go the short route for 12-13 points for a little bit of extra damage while pooling AP, and pool slightly more AP for the reset (Resetting only becomes really costly over 13 trait points).

Even though the long route is not devastatingly weaker early on I would prefer to have Ashes to Ashes asap, if not for damage then for the gameplay change of having an extra generator for 5 HP.

[Deleted]

Yeah, Ashes to Ashes is a real game changer. You definitely want that as soon as possible. The strategy of pooling the AP seems good to me.

[Haram]

I would say that the "put 9 points into quick route, pool AP, reset, put points into long route" Thete mentioned would be better, depending on how long it takes to grind out 67k AP from Suramar and dailies. Or maybe go the short route for 12-13 points for a little bit of extra damage while pooling AP, and pool slightly more AP for the reset (Resetting only becomes really costly over 13 trait points).

Even though the long route is not devastatingly weaker early on I would prefer to have Ashes to Ashes asap, if not for damage then for the gameplay change of having an extra generator for 5 HP.

As finalboss said in his 2nd pass ret video, with ashes to ashes you get a nice A/B going, where in your A judgment window, when ashbringer ability is up, you will be able to dump 3 spenders into your window, and then the B judgment window will be 2. With fires of justice, you may get lucky and be able to get an 3-spender, followed by another 3-spender. This all will pretty much change once we get the right amount of haste to have pretty much 100% judgment uptime.

With regards to the difference, the long route takes 18 points, whereas the short route takes 9. The benefit of the long route allows us to pick up some much needed talents, such as a boost to CS, BoJ, AW, Judgment, and TV. The other option of putting 9 points into Ashbringer to get ashes to ashes, and pooling AP until we can reset is an interesting thought. Though I just dont like the idea of losing AP, even if its a minimal amount. It feels like my efforts went to waste.

I think it IS technically possible, if you are doing your suramar quests, farming dungeons, doing world quests etc. to be able to get the required 18 points needed for the long route by the time raids come out.

Just a quick question with regards to AP, we can farm AP, even use the consumable, but it doesn't affect our refund amount as long as we haven't actually used the AP into a talent right? That way I can consume all my AP, and then check if I have enough AP to push to 18 points (minus the refund cost), and if I do, then refund the amount, reallocate the points in the long route, and then spend the remaining pooled AP to get A2A again

[Gracin]

Honestly, I don't think it's worth the invested time lost to go the short route to A2A and then farm for the long route. By taking the short route, you're essentially wasting the easy AP you gained through leveling that you can never get back. Someone back in the thread commented that they believe(or had tested, can't remember) that it would be possible to get to 18 within two days of starting. Now granted, that takes a healthy amount of invested time all at once, but imo you're not wasting leveling ap you will never have a chance to acquire again.

[Haram]

Honestly, I don't think it's worth the invested time lost to go the short route to A2A and then farm for the long route. By taking the short route, you're essentially wasting the easy AP you gained through leveling that you can never get back. Someone back in the thread commented that they believe(or had tested, can't remember) that it would be possible to get to 18 within two days of starting. Now granted, that takes a healthy amount of invested time all at once, but imo you're not wasting leveling ap you will never have a chance to acquire again.

If it is safe to say that anyone who is attempting to start raiding right off the bat can attain the 18 points needed to go the long route, then I think that would be the best play. You sacrifice your damage in both ST and AoE for mythic dungeons, but when it comes time to progression raiding, you have a leg up on the short route.

[Deleted]

So this means you can't get the improved ashes attack before you start raiding unless you go the quick and dirty route?

Most probably depends on when the raids will open and when your guild starts raiding.
In the video they said for raiding your best bet will be going the long route, since it pays off in the long run.

[Deleted]

raids wont be for 3 weeks minimum i woulda thought, thats normal raids too, mythic is another week on that.

[Gracin]

Yea I remember reading something about 2-3 weeks before raids open. Hell by then if you just stay consistent with your daily dungeons/quests/table/knowledge you'll probably be sitting around 26, which can net you all three gold dragons.

[Gracin]

The loss at that point is minimal imo and the other two golden traits are so weak comparably.

The point of going the long route isn't the other two golds, it's all the dps bonuses along the way to A2A compared to the shit bonus points to take the short route.

24% damage BoJ
18% crit CS
+7.5 Sec AW
45% damage J
6% damage TV

[Deleted]

What I did on beta was go for AtA first (it's a gamechanger, I don't want to play the game without it, and then as soon as I had enough points for 19 traits, reset to 18 and go for AtA again with the long route. The loss at that point is minimal imo and the other two golden traits are so weak comparably. Then do whatever you like.

Considering you will have 21-22 days till the first raid though, I sincerely think it is possible to go directly for the long route. Just focus on clearing every Suramar world quest ASAP for all the rep possible (Which you should anyway, you want those two extra mythic clears).

Since u done it did u see major dps difference between short and long route ?
And are there encounters in first raid instance where u wouldn't regret spending the AP for the two non-dps traits bringing some kind of utility in raid ?

A kind reminder to Gracin : U actually only loose 45% damage J and 6% damage TV by goin the short route ...

[Gracin]

A kind reminder to Gracin : U actually only loose 45% damage J and 6% damage TV by goin the short route ...

Uhh, you might want to check your facts. Going the 9 point short route means you take Righteous Blade(15% dam DS, Unbreakable Will(no dps boost), and Protector of the Ashen Blade(no dps boost) after getting Blade of Light. 18 point long route gets Deliver of Justice(24% dam BoJ), Sharpened Edge(18% crit CS), Wrath of the Ashbringer(+7.5 Sec AW), Highlord's Judgement(45% dam J), Endless Reslove(no dps boost), and finally Might of the Templar(6% dam TV).

If I was going to main ret, I'd go for the long route. It would be a painful 2-3 weeks playing without Ashes to Ashes but I am certain you can get 18 traits before EN and Mythic+ goes live.

Honestly, if you are diligent about dailies, you should have the 18th point a few days after hitting 110.

[Deleted]

Nah am just saying that by goin long route u use 18 traits and by going short route it is 9. If u spend the rest 9 traits the other way around it is only a minor setback missing only 2 dps traits .

[Gracin]

Well to be fair you'd have to compare both routes at 18 points. So the difference would be Righteous Blade(+15% Divine Storm, Unbreakable Will(no dps boost), and Protector of the Ashen Blade(no dps boost) instead of Highlord's Judgement(+45% Judgment), Endless Resolve(no dps boost), and Might of the Templar(+6% Templar's Verdict).

No, because going the short route means pooling AP for the 18 point reset.

[Deleted]

Why would you pool it? You would spend it normally and when you get to 18 you would pool it.

you pool since you want to save yourself the horrendous respec costs which always equal the costs of the next trait. If you spend Ap on 18 triots and then respec you have to pay the the AP for trait number 19.

[Gracin]

Why would you pool it? You would spend it normally and when you get to 18 you would pool it.

As Cpt pointed out you pay the next points cost in AP. So in this case by using your points after going he short route, it will cost you 24000 AP, compared to the laughably small 525 AP for respeccing at 8.

[Deleted]

We gone and made a major argument about these 2 routes i still dont quite grasp it. From what i get first trait we should aim for is A2A followed by Echo. Short route means ap for 19 traits and long route means ap for 22 traits. If we decide to spend ap for 22 traits on the short route we got the option of going for Wrath of the ashbringer (seems more legit since it opens the route for the third golden trait) or might of the templar. All in all after spending 22 traits basic difference is that by going short route u gonna miss highlord's judgement and either might of the templar or wrath of the ashbringer whereas if u go long route u gonna miss righteous blade.
To my eyes same shit, plus if dont choose to spend 525 ap to respecc u can spend that for some other artifact in order to reach a dragon in another specc without having to panic and regret...