Republican Election 2016 - Donald Trump Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Caolela]

What? There is an internet site that has a conspiracy theory on it? Well that is original...

Fact of the matter is, no matter how racist, sexist, stupid, intolerant, immoral or predisposed to any kind of justified evil behavior you have you will find hundreds of websites on the internet that agree with you. ANyone can make a website and anyone can create a conspiracy theory. You don't need a license to create a website and you don't need to pass a bar exam or get it past a council of your peers. I can go make a webpage right now that has a theory that the light is the reason why racism exists and why we should snuff out the sun to solve racism in our country.

Don't act like 'some website verifies what I am saying' actually means you have proof that everything is the way you say it is, all you have is proof that someone nutjob out there agrees with your opinion.

The problem with your theory is that the vote rigging and frauds exposed on those sites is not "theory", it's fact supported by evidence of actual conspiracy. Bev Harris and several others have been at this for years and aren't crackpots. There are cases where people have been convicted and gone to jail. If you'd taken some time to go through the sites you'd know that.

How quickly some of you have forgotten, for example, FL in the '00 election or Ohio in '04. Many other examples.

[Orbitus]

The problem with your theory is that the vote rigging and frauds exposed on those sites is not "theory", it's fact supported by evidence of actual conspiracy. Bev Harris and several others have been at this for years and aren't crackpots. There are cases where people have been convicted and gone to jail. If you'd taken some time to go through the sites you'd know that.

How quickly some of you have forgotten, for example, FL in the '00 election or Ohio in '04. Many other examples.

You mean a fucking blog that has no evidence? Yeah, not evidence. It is claims that it happened or happening.

[Bollocks]

Georgia now a swing state according to fox5

http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/193417494-story

[Merkava]

Since you haven't gotten the hint, Wells cannot tell you if it's true. And he clearly feels uncomfortable giving you his word for some douche website he doesn't trust himself completely. That is why he's telling you to go and look for yourself. Now, you're a lazy ass punk who doesn't want to do the research, that's fine. But don't pester the man about his word. Or... you want to nail him so you can somehow prove him wrong later with some other batshit crazy website and then pretend you're somehow more... right or something, I never get it..

No, you have it exactly backwards. I wasn't trying to nail Wells to anything. My point was that if the story is true, then Khan is fair game. Wells was trying to paint me merely asking if it was true as me giving credence to the article. Nowhere in any of my posts did I give any credence to the article at all. In fact I was skeptical of the article and I said so. Which of course you would have seen if you had actually read the thread, instead of being guilty of what you accused me of. But thanks for the insult.

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You make this too easy:





Either you treat all unproven claims as valid or none of them. You don't get to pick and choose.

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But is it true? The fact it was said by a bot doesn't prove it is false! What proof do you have that it isn't true?

How did I make it easy? I said "if it's true," then Khan is fair game. The contingency that I'm applying is crystal clear. If it's true, then he's fair game, for the allegations that have been proven? Clearly that's what I was saying.

I didn't treat anything as true. That's apparent if you read the thread. What I said was, "if it's true..."

And my last comment was sarcasm, which I clarified. It was a joke. I was implying that by bringing up the nambla story, you caused another poster who hadn't read the thread to assume that we we're giving credence to that story. For fucks sake, does anyone on here actually read the threads? Seriously. Why even fucking participate if that's case?

[Caolela]

You mean a fucking blog that has no evidence? Yeah, not evidence. It is claims that it happened or happening.

Hmmm...

CLEVELAND (AP) — Two election workers in the state's most populous county were convicted Wednesday of illegally rigging the 2004 presidential election recount so they could avoid a more thorough review of the votes.

A third employee who had been charged was acquitted on all counts.

Jacqueline Maiden, the elections' coordinator who was the board's third-highest ranking employee when she was indicted last March, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer each were convicted of a felony count of negligent misconduct of an elections employee.

Maiden and Dreamer also were convicted of one misdemeanor count each of failure of elections employees to perform their duty.

[Special prosecutor Kevin] Baxter said he intends to speak with Maiden and Dreamer before their scheduled sentencing on Feb. 26 to see if they wish to make any statements that might influence the sentence.

"We'd like to listen to them if they had anything to say, if anyone else was involved with this. We still haven't been able to determine that," he said.

A message was left Wednesday with elections board director Michael Vu.

CLEVELAND (AP) - Two county election workers were sentenced Tuesday to 18 months in prison for rigging a recount of 2004 presidential election ballots so they could avoid a longer, detailed review.

Jacqueline Maiden, 60, a Cuyahoga County election coordinator who was the board's third-highest ranking employee, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer, 40, each were convicted of a felony count of negligent misconduct of an elections employee.

Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Peter Corrigan allowed the women to remain free on bail pending appeal, but indicated he thought there was a more widespread conspiracy among election officials.

said Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Peter Corrigan, who allowed the women to remain free on bond pending appeal. Some of their friends and relatives sobbed as the judge imposed the sentence.

The judge repeatedly asked Jacqueline Maiden, 60, an election coordinator who was the Cuyahoga County board's third-highest ranking employee, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer, 40, if higher-ups in the board had directed the recount rigging.

"It seems unlikely your supervisors wouldn't know," the judge prodded.
...
"This big conspiracy, it's not there," Dreamer said. She said she wasn't protecting anyone at the board and had been truthful in the investigation.

Maiden said she wouldn't lie, even to protect someone. "I've never tried to do anything underhanded," she said.

But the judge sounded skeptical. "Telling the whole truth, that's what's important," Corrigan said. "I'm not convinced you've done that."

Erie County Prosecutor Kevin Baxter, appointed as an outside investigator to look into the election board in Cleveland, told that judge that the women had been uncooperative in the investigation and appealed for prison time for both.

"The defendants have never come clean," he said.
...
Baxter criticized the outspoken support for the women from Robert Bennett, the election board chairman and head of the Republican Party in Ohio. Endorsing such criminal behavior is "amazing, it's astounding," according to Baxter, who didn't indicate if the investigation might lead to more charges.

You can also watch this HBO docu: Hacking Democracy



All of the above is just the tip of a very large iceberg. The U.S. is as corrupt in its elections as any 3rd world shithole. Because of e-voting machines the vote can be changed as easily as changing a line of text in any file on your PC, and - there is little or no way to track what was done.

You should learn the facts before you spout off out of ignorance.

[Pangean]

More info on Manafort.

Manafort’s man in Kiev
The Trump campaign chairman’s closeness to a Russian Army-trained linguist turned Ukrainian political operative is raising questions, concerns.

In an effort to collect previously undisclosed millions of dollars he’s owed by an oligarch-backed Ukrainian political party, Donald Trump’s campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been relying on a trusted protégé whose links to Russia and its Ukrainian allies have prompted concerns among Manafort associates, according to people who worked with both men.

The protégé, Konstantin Kilimnik, has had conversations with fellow operatives in Kiev about collecting unpaid fees owed to Manafort’s company by a Russia-friendly political party called Opposition Bloc, according to operatives who work in Ukraine.

A Russian Army-trained linguist who has told a previous employer of a background with Russian intelligence, Kilimnik started working for Manafort in 2005 when Manafort was representing Russian oligarch Rinat Akhmetov, a gig that morphed into a long-term contract with Viktor Yanukovych, the Kremlin-aligned hardliner who became president of Ukraine.

Kilimnik eventually became “Manafort’s Manafort” in Kiev, and he continued to lead Manafort’s office there after Yanukovych fled the country for Russia in 2014, according to Ukrainian business records and interviews with several political operatives who have worked in Ukraine’s capital. Kilimnik and Manafort then teamed up to help promote Opposition Bloc, which rose from the ashes of Yanukovych’s regime. The party is funded by oligarchs who previously backed Yanukovych, including at least one who the Ukrainian operatives say is close to both Kilimnik and Manafort.

Kilimnik has continued advising Opposition Bloc, which opposes Ukraine’s teetering pro-Western government, even as the party stopped fully paying Manafort’s firm, leaving it unable to pay some of its employees and rent, according to people familiar with the firm and its relationship to Opposition Bloc.

All the while, Kilimnik has told people that he remains in touch with his old mentor. He told several people that he traveled to the United States and met with Manafort this spring. The trip and alleged meeting came at a time when Manafort was immersed in helping guide Trump’s campaign through the bitter Republican presidential primaries, and was trying to distance himself from his work in Ukraine.

Russia and its relationship with Ukraine have emerged as a major issue in the race, as have Manafort’s connections in the region. Allies of Trump’s Democratic rival Hillary Clinton have sought to use Trump’s stances on, and ties to, Russia to cast him as the preferred candidate of one of the U.S.’s top geopolitical foes.

That criticism intensified last month after a series of events. First, Trump’s campaign gutted a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that called for the U.S. to provide “lethal defensive weapons” for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian incursion, backers of the measure charged. The move defied a strong GOP consensus on the issue. Then, the U.S. government blamed Russia for a politically damaging hack of the Democratic National Committee, and finally Trump called for Russia to hack Clinton’s emails, though he later said he was “being sarcastic.”

Joking aside, Trump has demonstrated more interest in Russia’s affairs than in perhaps any other area of foreign policy. And his laissez faire approach towards Russia’s confrontational relations with its neighbors, combined with his open admiration of its authoritarian president Vladimir Putin and his employment of Manafort, have led experts from across the political spectrum to predict that a Trump presidency would auger to the Kremlin’s benefit.

With Trump receiving his first classified security briefings, and concerns about him spiking in the intelligence community, talk of Kilimnik’s connections to Russian intelligence — combined with his affiliation with the Russia-allied Opposition Bloc — could become a liability for Trump, predict associates of Manafort and Kilimnik.

That’s quite a turnabout from Manafort’s work in Ukraine, where Kilimnik’s Russian military background was seen as an advantage in working for the pro-Russian Yanukovych.

“There was a time that that didn’t bother us because our interests converged, but then at the end when Yanukovych was going down the wrong path, our interests diverged, and for whatever reasons, Paul kept him on,” one operative close to Manafort said of Kilimnik.

read the rest (it's long but worth while to see what went on) at:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...ilimnik-227181

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Manafort was a busy man it would appear. And appears to have violated the law while being busy.

Trump advisers waged covert influence campaign

A firm run by Donald Trump's campaign chairman directly orchestrated a covert Washington lobbying operation on behalf of Ukraine's ruling political party, attempting to sway American public opinion in favor of the country's pro-Russian government, emails obtained by The Associated Press show. Paul Manafort and his deputy, Rick Gates, never disclosed their work as foreign agents as required under federal law.

The lobbying included attempts to gain positive press coverage of Ukrainian officials in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and The Associated Press. Another goal: undercutting American public sympathy for the imprisoned rival of Ukraine's then-president. At the time, European and American leaders were pressuring Ukraine to free her.

Gates personally directed the work of two prominent Washington lobbying firms in the matter, the emails show. He worked for Manafort's political consulting firm at the time.

Manafort and Gates' activities carry outsized importance, since they have steered Trump's campaign since April. The pair also played a formative role building out Trump's campaign operation after pushing out an early rival. Trump shook up his campaign's organization again this week, but Manafort and Gates retain their titles and much of their influence. The new disclosures about their work come as Trump faces criticism for his friendly overtures to Russian President Vladimir Putin.


Trump said Thursday night that, if elected, he will ask senior officials in his administration not to accept speaking fees, for five years after leaving office, from corporations that lobby "or from any entity tied to a foreign government." He said it was among his efforts to "restore honor to government."

Manafort and Gates have previously said they were not doing work that required them to register as foreign agents. Neither commented when reached by the AP on Thursday.

The emails show Gates personally directed two Washington lobbying firms, Mercury LLC and the Podesta Group Inc., between 2012 and 2014 to set up meetings between a top Ukrainian official and senators and congressmen on influential committees involving Ukrainian interests. Gates noted in the emails that the official, Ukraine's foreign minister, did not want to use his own embassy in the United States to help coordinate the visits.

Gates also directed the firms to gather information in the U.S. on a rival lobbying operation, including a review of its public lobbying disclosures, to determine who was behind that effort, the emails show.

And Gates directed efforts to undercut sympathy for Yulia Tymoshenko, an imprisoned rival of then-President Viktor Yanukovych. The Ukrainian leader eventually fled the country in February 2014 during a popular revolt prompted in part by his government's crackdown on protesters and close ties to Russia.

The emails do not describe details about the role of Manafort, who was Gates' boss at the firm, DMP International LLC. Current and former employees at Mercury and the Podesta Group, some of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because they are subject to non-disclosure agreements, told the AP that Manafort oversaw the lobbying efforts and spoke by phone about them. Gates was directing actions and seeking information during the project using an email address at DMP International, which he still uses.

Manafort did not return phone and email messages Thursday from the AP to discuss the project. After the AP reported earlier this week that Manafort helped the Ukrainian political party secretly route at least $2.2 million to the two Washington lobbying firms, Manafort told Yahoo News that the AP's account was wrong. "I was not involved in any payment plans," Manafort said.

Gates said Thursday he was busy with Trump campaign focus groups and promised to review the AP's questions in writing, then did not respond.

Manafort also said in a statement earlier this week that he never performed work for the governments of Ukraine or Russia. Gates previously told the AP, "At no time did our firm or members provide any direct lobbying support."

Under the U.S. Foreign Agents Registration Act, people who lobby on behalf of foreign political leaders or political parties must provide detailed reports about their actions to the Justice Department. A violation is a felony and can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

The emails illustrate how Gates worked with Mercury and the Podesta Group on behalf of Ukrainian political leaders. None of the firms, nor Manafort or Gates, disclosed their work to the Justice Department counterespionage division responsible for tracking the lobbying of foreign governments.

"There is no question that Gates and Manafort should have registered along with the lobbying firms," said Joseph Sandler of Sandler Reiff Lamb Rosenstein & Birkenstock, a Democratic-leaning Washington law firm that advises Republican and Democratic lobbyists.

Manafort and Gates have said that they did not disclose their activities to the Justice Department because they did not oversee lobbying efforts and merely introduced the Washington firms to a Brussels-based nonprofit, the European Center for a Modern Ukraine, which they said ran the project. The center paid Mercury and the Podesta Group a combined $2.2 million over roughly two years.

The emails appear to contradict the assertion that the nonprofit's lobbying campaign operated independently from Manafort's firm.

In papers filed in the U.S. Senate, Mercury and the Podesta Group listed the European nonprofit as an independent, nonpolitical client. The firms said the center stated in writing that it was not aligned with any foreign political entity.

The 1938 U.S. foreign agents law is intended to track efforts of foreign government's unofficial operatives in the United States.

Political consultants are generally leery of registering under it, because their reputations can suffer once they are on record as accepting money to advocate the interests of foreign governments — especially if those interests conflict with America's. Moreover, registering under the law would have required Gates, Manafort or the lobbying firms to disclose the specifics of their lobbying work and their efforts to sway public opinion through media outreach.

Ina Kirsch, who runs the European nonprofit, has said the group's work was independent and its goal was to bring Ukraine into the fold of Europe. The center has declined for years to reveal specific sources of its funding.

Gates confirmed to the AP previously that he was working for Ukraine's ruling party, the Party of Regions, at the time.

The chairman of the Podesta Group, Tony Podesta — the brother of Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta — said his firm believed Gates was working for the nonprofit. Podesta said he was unaware of the firm's work for the Ukraine's Party of Regions, led by Yanukovych. On Thursday, his firm said it had nothing new to add.

Mercury's founder, Vin Weber, an influential Republican and former congressman, told the AP that his firm was aware of Manafort's and Gates' affiliation with Ukraine's political party and said Gates never participated in Mercury's lobbying work. Weber did not respond to questions after the AP said it had obtained emails contradicting this.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6eed1...uence-campaign

[timberx]

Just watched Anderson Cooper 360 tonight, and one of Trump's surrogates said that Republicans have always been at the forefront of civil rights movements, and every panelist on the Democratic side collectively facepalmed. Thought that was hilarious, lol.

[Glnger]

No, you have it exactly backwards. I wasn't trying to nail Wells to anything. My point was that if the story is true, then Khan is fair game.

harassing a grieving family after their son dies in a foreign war is "fair game" if the dad isn't faithful?
what in the actual fuck is the matter with you?

[fengosa]

Do you think Hillary gets less people at her speeches because she doesn't wan't a huge audience or just no one is interested in going?

The crowds are actually roughly the same size...things just look out of scale when placed next to Trumps hands.

[Pangean]

Just watched Anderson Cooper 360 tonight, and one of Trump's surrogates said that Republicans have always been at the forefront of civil rights movements, and every panelist on the Democratic side collectively facepalmed. Thought that was hilarious, lol.

It's a memorized bit by GOP talking heads. It starts with them claiming to be the party of Lincoln and then blah blah blah..

[Merkava]

harassing a grieving family after their son dies in a foreign war is "fair game" if the dad isn't faithful?
what in the actual fuck is the matter with you?

Well, the son died 12 years ago. And I don't know what you think constitutes 'harassment." But, yea, if it's true, then I don't think commenting on it on social media is particularly morally unsanitary.

[Glnger]

Well, the son died 12 years ago. And I don't know what you think constitutes 'harassment." But, yea, if it's true, then I don't think commenting on it on social media is particularly morally unsanitary.

as long as they're a minority, amirite?

I don't usually find myself in republican circles where every other sentence is a praise of our troops, but you just might be a really shitty person IRL.


Though something tells me your dislike of the khan family is only skin deep.
in which case you're still a shitty person.

[Merkava]

as long as they're a minority, amirite?

No. Nice try. The question you should have asked, if you were thoughtful, instead of desperately trying to portray me as a racist, would be, to ask me what I meant by "fair game." I probably would have told you to read the thread, but barring that, I would point you to my first response to this issue, when I replied to this post;

I've got quite a few friends on social media who are posting this, it's really quite sad how desperate these people are.

So in other words, yes. I think posting this on social media is perfectly fine. As long as it's true. That's what I meant by fair game. If it's not true, then of course you absolutely should not be posting or commenting on it on social media.

But, I mean, fuck it, right? Why bother asking anyone to claifify their opinion? Why bother reading the fucking thread? Why even attempt to engage in a fucking discussion in any manner that even resembles anything close to good faith when it's easier to just accuse people of racism. amirite? Fuck off.

[Glnger]

No. Nice try. The question you should have asked, if you were thoughtful, instead of desperately trying to portray me as a racist, would be, to ask me what I meant by "fair game." I probably would have told you to read the thread, but barring that, I would point you to my first response to this issue, when I replied to this post;

So in other words, yes. I think posting this on social media is perfectly fine. As long as it's true. That's what I meant by fair game. If it's not true, then of course you absolutely should not be posting or commenting on it on social media.

But, I mean, fuck it, right? Why bother asking anyone to claifify their opinion? Why bother reading the fucking thread? Why even attempt to engage in a fucking discussion in any manner that even resembles anything close to good faith when it's easier to just accuse people of racism. amirite? Fuck off.

I understood exactly what you're saying. you think they are or would be "fair game" if the story was true. I'm sure Khan's friends, family, and possibly S/O's would really appreciate digging up shit on the deceased. but again, you're okay with it THIS time, were you okay with it when some "libs" rightfully called out Chris Kyle for being a liar? How many times did you post in the Benghazi thread? ect ect.

something tells me its only different this time.

[Merkava]

I understood exactly what you're saying. you think they are or would be "fair game" if the story was true. I'm sure Khan's friends, family, and possibly S/O's would really appreciate digging up shit on the deceased. but again, you're okay with it THIS time, were you okay with it when some libs rightfully called out Chris Kyle for being a liar?

In reverse order, not only am I ok some with libs (or anyone else, for that matter) calling Chris Kyle a liar, I myself called Chris Kyle a liar. Assuming that we're talking about the Ventura controversy, of course.

And I don't know that anyone dug up anything on any deceased person. But that in itself wouldn't bother me. If it were true, of course.

So, yes. It's fair game to comment on it on social media if it's true. I don't think that statement is very daring of me to make, and I don't think it warrants you insinuating that I'm racist. But if that's what gets you off, go ahead.

Edit - No it's not different. And I see what's going on. You think, assume, that I'm a Republican, because I said something that you perceived as negative about this Khan guy. And then assumed that I would defend Kyle. Again, not very impressive.

And to answer your edits, I posted a lot in the Banghazi threads. Tell me what the relevance is, again, between allegations into Khan's sex life and Benghazi?

[DeadmanWalking]

It's a memorized bit by GOP talking heads. It starts with them claiming to be the party of Lincoln and then blah blah blah..

And they conveniently ignore that after the party ingrained itself in the south the parties life blood was replaced by southern Dixiecrats and conservatives whose agenda wasn't abortion but rather segregation in schools. You can't fill a party with southern Dixiecrats and not pick up their social culture including the deep southern racism. Lincoln flipped over in his grave that day.

But we will ignore that and eventually young generations of republicans without historical facts will say, "I don't know why black people vote against the party of Lincoln...".

[Glnger]

In reverse order, not only am I ok some with libs (or anyone else, for that matter) calling Chris Kyle a liar, I myself called Chris Kyle a liar. Assuming that we're talking about the Ventura controversy, of course.

And I don't know that anyone dug up anything on any deceased person. But that in itself wouldn't bother me. If it were true, of course.

So, yes. It's fair game to comment on it on social media if it's true. I don't think that statement is very daring of me to make, and I don't think it warrants you insinuating that I'm racist. But if that's what gets you off, go ahead.

idk about a "ventura" thing, I know of a guy that lied about quite a bit of his life and they made a movie out of it, and many republicans/conservatives ate it up and really got upset when others tried to point out that a lot of his stories didn't add up and we didn't even come close to the level of insults and insensitivity that trump/alt-right media has unloaded on the Kahn family.

[Merkava]

idk about a "ventura" thing, I know of a guy that lied about quite a bit of his life and they made a movie out of it, and many republicans/conservatives ate it up and really got upset when others tried to point out that a lot of his stories didn't add up.

He lied and said that he hit Ventura in a bar, and Ventura sued him and won after Kyle's death.

So again, what position of mine are you taking issue with here?

[Glnger]

He lied and said that he hit Ventura in a bar, and Ventura sued him and won after Kyle's death.

So again, what position of mine are you taking issue with here?

oh ya, I remember that now. There was a lot more that the guy lied about than just that lol.

that you are okay with casually making fun of the families of fallen soldiers, as long as it helps discredit them and their political message against your candidate on social media.

[Merkava]

oh ya, I remember that now. There was a lot more that the guy lied about than just that lol.

I know. But again, what is this relevant to?