[BEAST MASTERY]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Freerunz]

I think you will see people pulling away from mm a little more...
...If the two are simming close then BM will be the better spec in raids.

The predictions! Time to search new pets in petopia.

[Kwaai]

Once people start breaking the mm 4-set from HFC I think you will see people pulling away from mm a little more. Hunter has always been about mobility and MM doesn't have it anymore. Mages are hit less by movement than mm with sidewinder in Legion. If the two are simming close then BM will be the better spec in raids.

MM also gets 100% free cleave. BM gives up damage on the main target to use multi, whereas MM just sits there using Sidewinders. Depends on how big the gap is, of course, but there are merits to both specs outside of damage.

[pixelated senpai]

MM also gets 100% free cleave. BM gives up damage on the main target to use multi, whereas MM just sits there using Sidewinders. Depends on how big the gap is, of course, but there are merits to both specs outside of damage.

That is probably the only appealing thing to me from MM as a Mythic raider, if i can cleave/aoe from my normal rotation and do st dps why would i chose another spec? Plus, the more and more i play live and beta with pet AI the more i come to hate it.

[sayne9]

MM also gets 100% free cleave. BM gives up damage on the main target to use multi, whereas MM just sits there using Sidewinders. Depends on how big the gap is, of course, but there are merits to both specs outside of damage.

True. MM doesn't lose primary target damage when it aoes/cleaves. BM does stacked aoe much better, actually one of the stronger specs at it from what I am hearing. It is a matter of priority on adds vs boss I guess and how tight of a dps window you have for each of them. The auto-cleave could suck on dps stops with adds, admittedly not a common situation but it is one that comes up from time to time.

I'll take mobility over that every time though.

[DeiVias]

Plus, the more and more i play live and beta with pet AI the more i come to hate it.

Oh man they totally butchered pet AI in legion, it's gradually improved over the course of the beta but still not as smart as it once was.

No idea why they messed with it, i didn't have any problems with it in WOD.

They seem to be focusing on it now, have had 2 pet AI improvements in the last couple of weeks.

[keygy]

MM and BM can be close in ST but the Artifact traits from MM are wayyyy better that the BM one.

[Ifritlol]

But you know what guys?! It's still Beta and it's too early to panic, hunters will be fine, right?! Stupid fuckin' company can't balance couple digits

[Nakauri]

Beast Mastery's SimC module is still getting worked on, especially as interest rises as we get closer to Legion launch. A recent fix went out regarding Surge of the Stormgod for the simc engine. If you'd like to further test the SimC engine, see the development thread here: https://trueshotlodge.ca/forums/index.php?topic=41.0

This is particularly true now that the legendary vendor is open. Please note if SimC is not behaving correctly regarding uptime benefits or synergies between legendaries, artifact traits, talents, etc. If you have a question regarding how to check something you can leave it there as well, it will be answered so you can continue (including if you've never used simc before, but there's also a quickstart guide).
The better our tools are for investigation, the better and more concrete theory answers become.

[nacixems]

Anyone got some advice on how to plan out the 1st 13 points in the AF weapon?
I was thinking? The bold one is the 1st Premi Trait i get to . not sure what path others will take, but the 1st 13 should be pretty quick to reach. all under 1k AP. the 14th point costs bit more(6840).

Beast Master - 1
Focus of the Titans - 3
Hati's Bond - 1
Jaws of Thunder - 3
Master of Beasts - 1
Mimiron's Shell - 3

[MrTharne]

For BM you go clockwise. So yeah Master of Beast -> Stormgod -> TT

[Deleted]

I've not read through all the commets in this topic but does anyone else feel like BM needs a filler spell? There is so much downtime where you just w8 for things to come off cooldown and you're just standing there with your passive focus regen. A filler spell would make BM feel much more enjoyable (atleast to me).

Add to that one utility spell like some sort of fancy trap and I would actually be pretty OK with the spec even if it is braindead easy to play.

[Leyre]

BM need something to make it not so shitty when compared to MM, no amount of mechanical pets or thok the bloodthirsty its gonna help it unless it gets some nice buffs

[Dch48]

I've not read through all the commets in this topic but does anyone else feel like BM needs a filler spell? There is so much downtime where you just w8 for things to come off cooldown and you're just standing there with your passive focus regen. A filler spell would make BM feel much more enjoyable (atleast to me).

Add to that one utility spell like some sort of fancy trap and I would actually be pretty OK with the spec even if it is braindead easy to play.

I have practically no downtime when I play. No more than I did in WoD or MoP. I find it much better than MM.

I use the KC bleed talent instead of Stampede. Stampede has to be aimed exactly right to be effective and the bleed sims out as higher dps anyway. I also use Chimaera Shot instead of Stomp just to have another shot. Stomp is silly anyway when the beast summoned is a bird or something similar. The dps difference is small except on trash packs. I do what I can with multishot and beast cleave but my opinion is that Hunters are and should be single target specialists. I let the classes with real AOE capabilities deal with that aspect.

[Bepples]

I have practically no downtime when I play. No more than I did in WoD or MoP. I find it much better than MM.

I use the KC bleed talent instead of Stampede. Stampede has to be aimed exactly right to be effective and the bleed sims out as higher dps anyway.

What? No. This is completely false and misleading. Stampede blows Aspect of the Beast out of the water. Even Killer Cobra beats Aspect of the Beast.

From the Icy Veins guide:




Stampede does not need to be aimed "Exactly right". There aren't many scenarios where you can fuck it up, and in the few that do exists its very easy to get it right anyway.

I also use Chimaera Shot instead of Stomp just to have another shot. Stomp is silly anyway when the beast summoned is a bird or something similar.

Who gives a shit? Stomp is just a better talent. It also scales with mastery while Chimaera Shot, and Mastery is the highest-priority stat.

It handily beats Chimera shot at single target and even beats it at 2-target (Chimera Shot's strength), and it destroys Chimera Shot at 3 targets and above with the difference only getting larger and larger.

Don't get me wrong: I wish Chimera Shot were better so that I could take it and close up BM's downtime, but it just isn't.

I do what I can with multishot and beast cleave but my opinion is that Hunters are and should be single target specialists. I let the classes with real AOE capabilities deal with that aspect.

So you personally believe that hunters shouldn't be able to AoE (for some arbitrary reason) while playing a spec that specialises in AoE? How does BM not have "real AoE capabilities"?

[pixelated senpai]

I have practically no downtime when I play. No more than I did in WoD or MoP. I find it much better than MM.

I use the KC bleed talent instead of Stampede. Stampede has to be aimed exactly right to be effective and the bleed sims out as higher dps anyway. I also use Chimaera Shot instead of Stomp just to have another shot. Stomp is silly anyway when the beast summoned is a bird or something similar. The dps difference is small except on trash packs. I do what I can with multishot and beast cleave but my opinion is that Hunters are and should be single target specialists. I let the classes with real AOE capabilities deal with that aspect.

You should post this in the hunter discord, to share your feelings. I would post it for you but i wouldn't want to take your credit.

[Aldare]

I have practically no downtime when I play. No more than I did in WoD or MoP. I find it much better than MM.

I use the KC bleed talent instead of Stampede. Stampede has to be aimed exactly right to be effective and the bleed sims out as higher dps anyway. I also use Chimaera Shot instead of Stomp just to have another shot. Stomp is silly anyway when the beast summoned is a bird or something similar. The dps difference is small except on trash packs. I do what I can with multishot and beast cleave but my opinion is that Hunters are and should be single target specialists. I let the classes with real AOE capabilities deal with that aspect.

FpicEail has already pointed out the misinformation in your post, but what do you mean you let classes with real AoE capabilities handle AoE? Hunter IS a class with real AoE capabilities, both in WoD and certainly in Legion as well.

[Dch48]

What? No. This is completely false and misleading. Stampede blows Aspect of the Beast out of the water. Even Killer Cobra beats Aspect of the Beast.

From the Icy Veins guide:




Stampede does not need to be aimed "Exactly right". There aren't many scenarios where you can fuck it up, and in the few that do exists its very easy to get it right anyway.



Who gives a shit? Stomp is just a better talent. It also scales with mastery while Chimaera Shot, and Mastery is the highest-priority stat.

It handily beats Chimera shot at single target and even beats it at 2-target (Chimera Shot's strength), and it destroys Chimera Shot at 3 targets and above with the difference only getting larger and larger.

Don't get me wrong: I wish Chimera Shot were better so that I could take it and close up BM's downtime, but it just isn't.



So you personally believe that hunters shouldn't be able to AoE (for some arbitrary reason) while playing a spec that specialises in AoE? How does BM not have "real AoE capabilities"?

According to the simulator at Mr. Robot, Aspect of the Beast is higher dps than Stampede. It is for my character anyway. Also Mastery is not the highest priority stat, Haste is. I take that back. Icy-Veins originally said Haste over Mastery but I see they have changed that now.

I did a couple of LFR raids with Stampede talented and it was terrible. The boss moves or is moved by the tank and the stampeding beasts completely miss the intended target. Even if the target doesn't move, if you are not facing exactly the right way when it is cast, some of the beasts miss. The ability was much better before the change. It's lousy now.

BM does not have real AOE capabilities, no Hunter spec does. AOE is dominated by Mages and to a lesser extent, Warlocks where the AOE effect can be targeted over a wide area and not just hit a specified number of mobs or those who are very close together. Hell even some melee classes do better multi-target damage than Hunters. I didn't say Hunters shouldn't be able to AOE. I said that it hasn't been a strength of the class and shouldn't be.

[Keyimin]

You should post this in the hunter discord, to share your feelings. I would post it for you but i wouldn't want to take your credit.

I have to admit, this gave me a good chuckle.

[Dch48]

There is no misinformation.
Mr. Robot sim results for my toon with current gear:

with Aspect of the Beast -- 30353 dps
with Stampede -------------28980
with Killer Cobra ----------- 28705

I'm sticking with AotB. Better dps and it always works.

with Chimaera Shot --- 30353
with Stomp -------------30642

I'll take CS to have virtually no downtime and avoid the sometimes silliness of Stomp. The dps difference is less than 1%. I agree that it would be more in a pack of mobs but I don't care about those situations. I gear and talent for single target and whatever multi-target damage I do, so be it.

[Reloe]

isn't this thread meant to be discussion about actual Legion and not the few weeks of completly irrelevant prepatch?