Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammanas View Post

    Based on the spreadsheet math (it assumes you do daily heroic, 8x mythic dungeons per week, and all suramar rep + AP world quests each day) you will reach 17 mil AP roughly 77 days after Legion launches.

    It will take 194 days to have one artifact that is fully unlocked 36/36 + 20/20. Getting your 2 off-specs to just 28 traits each (basically unlocking your gold traits and most relevant DPS ones) will cost you 2 million AP which is not an insignificant amount - its exactly the same that it costs you to go from 36 to 37 on one artifact which gives you your first 5% increased total damage trait.
    This is why the game is dying lol.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    ... Both? With Artifact Knowledge, while your primary will likely always have a point or two ahead, their's not reason to not have the other two closely behind.
    This i's complete and utter b s. At least until the 2 first raids progression is over. You need to play fire alone for at least a few months. Sure you can play other specs in low mythic + and dungeons and pvp and put in the world. But not in progression. You need all the artofact power into your main weapon.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycaus View Post
    Secondaries are everything when picking your off spec. You're only gonna get 1 set of gear during progression, and playing a "door spec" without proper stats would be pointless. You go stack haste and mastery fire arcane, because that will be the prio, and then run fire as your off and tell me how that goes.
    That sounds like a case of autosuggestion. For example, for the entire Tier 18 at least, Arcane cared minimally about secondaries. It couldn't care less unless it was versatility because the differences were rarely beyond 1-3%.

    Also you can re-enchant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vycaus View Post
    Haste reduces the CD of fire blast and the cast time of fire ball. Because haste directly leads to more pyros, the increase to mastery is minimal gains. Also, during combustion, all crit rating becomes mastery rating. More haste means more globals during combustion.

    Mastery's importance was linked to old fire's combustion and general aoe damage. Now that we have flame strike, more hot streaks means more aoe or ST.

    Thus Crit >>> haste > mastery.
    That's one of the best ways to make bad stat priorities. You start with a minimal set of information (minimal might be an understatement) and you conclude with a clear and static priority. It might surprise you but in certain encounter setups/character setups haste could be 1st, versatility could be above crit, and other such "nonsense".

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Astorian View Post
    This i's complete and utter b s. At least until the 2 first raids progression is over. You need to play fire alone for at least a few months. Sure you can play other specs in low mythic + and dungeons and pvp and put in the world. But not in progression. You need all the artofact power into your main weapon.
    Except that they retune things a lot early in the xpac. I mean just last week we got quite large tank retuning. Wouldn't say it's a slam dunk fire is best spec when dust settles.

    In addition to that, because of the way AP costs scale, it may be best to maintain one off spec weapon if we wind up with different specs better at different fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unmerciful Conker View Post
    What?! They said soon? Well you dont hear that everyday, I dont know about you guys but that has put my mind at total rest.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    Except that they retune things a lot early in the xpac. I mean just last week we got quite large tank retuning. Wouldn't say it's a slam dunk fire is best spec when dust settles.

    In addition to that, because of the way AP costs scale, it may be best to maintain one off spec weapon if we wind up with different specs better at different fights.
    If a spec significantly gets boosted or nerfed you just spa over all your artifact power to another one it'll cost you a lot but will be worth it.
    Also especially since the cost is so high, getting that one point and ultimately closer to more major buffs to your spec in your main spec is well more worth it the getting 7-9 slots in your off spec. Always.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    ... Both? With Artifact Knowledge, while your primary will likely always have a point or two ahead, their's not reason to not have the other two closely behind.
    You do know that artifact knowledge on the first couple of months on legion is slow right? Like 5 days to a week per % increase. Its 24 hrs per % increase on beta because its been out for more than half a year lol

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Astorian View Post
    If a spec significantly gets boosted or nerfed you just spa over all your artifact power to another one it'll cost you a lot but will be worth it.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know that is not possible. You can only respec traits, never move artifact power to a different weapon.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    French Empire
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Astorian View Post
    This i's complete and utter b s. At least until the 2 first raids progression is over. You need to play fire alone for at least a few months. Sure you can play other specs in low mythic + and dungeons and pvp and put in the world. But not in progression. You need all the artofact power into your main weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    You do know that artifact knowledge on the first couple of months on legion is slow right? Like 5 days to a week per % increase. Its 24 hrs per % increase on beta because its been out for more than half a year lol
    Yeah, so actually learn your facts before vomiting on the keyboard.

    http://imgur.com/ZUUThTR

    Go on the associate reddit thread for the spreadsheet if you're curious.
    Last edited by Torian kel; 2016-08-19 at 09:19 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    Yeah, so actually learn your facts before vomiting on the keyboard.

    http://imgur.com/ZUUThTR

    Go on the associate reddit thread for the spreadsheet if your curious.
    7 months... This will be long.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagar View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know that is not possible. You can only respec traits, never move artifact power to a different weapon.
    It is possible or at least was in beta. You just lost the amount of ap your next upgrade would cost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    Yeah, so actually learn your facts before vomiting on the keyboard.

    http://imgur.com/ZUUThTR

    Go on the associate reddit thread for the spreadsheet if you're curious.
    That's even more reason not to throw it away of stuff like off spec roles. If your casual sure but for end game progression. Tye bonuses you get later on is insane. Also it's 77 days to get full ap if you do everything. Say 3 or 5 months for average players.
    Waste 50% on offspec weapon and that's ruse a lot.
    Do what you want to tbh. Get your own facts and believe in them is the best way
    Last edited by mmoca683e706ba; 2016-08-19 at 10:40 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    Yeah, so actually learn your facts before vomiting on the keyboard.

    http://imgur.com/ZUUThTR

    Go on the associate reddit thread for the spreadsheet if you're curious.
    ... Both? With Artifact Knowledge, while your primary will likely always have a point or two ahead, their's not reason to not have the other two closely behind.
    LOL thats not a point or two ahead dear, if my main weap has full traits+5% damage increase, wtf am i gonna do with a 14 pt off spec weapon as pure dps class??
    Last edited by Yizu; 2016-08-19 at 12:37 PM.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    I'm not sure if that's accurate because it's just an image without a proof. But it sounds reasonable. An important thing to mention is that it doesn't really matter if one makes an offspec today or on day X because if you have reached a very high rank of traits, just giving AP to an offspec instead of a higher rank will give numerous ranks to the offspec, so I think we're giving too much weight on a subject that isn't that hard to manage, unless one does stuff like 50-50 ranks or reverting a lot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The main outlier to this whole thing is that nasty last trait which doesn't seem easy even on high artifact knowledge. There might be nerfs or major mechanical changes. I can imagine the rage people will have when they might have to stop playing a spec that had multiple months for another (especially the hybrid classes).

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    French Empire
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Curnivore View Post
    I'm not sure if that's accurate because it's just an image without a proof. But it sounds reasonable. An important thing to mention is that it doesn't really matter if one makes an offspec today or on day X because if you have reached a very high rank of traits, just giving AP to an offspec instead of a higher rank will give numerous ranks to the offspec, so I think we're giving too much weight on a subject that isn't that hard to manage, unless one does stuff like 50-50 ranks or reverting a lot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The main outlier to this whole thing is that nasty last trait which doesn't seem easy even on high artifact knowledge. There might be nerfs or major mechanical changes. I can imagine the rage people will have when they might have to stop playing a spec that had multiple months for another (especially the hybrid classes).
    If you'd bother clicking on the imgur link you'd see the spreadsheet the guy used at the bottom, alternatively the reddit thread is still going on with plenty of information, as I previously said.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    If you'd bother clicking on the imgur link you'd see the spreadsheet the guy used at the bottom, alternatively the reddit thread is still going on with plenty of information, as I previously said.
    If you read beyond the first sentence you'll see I find the image most probably correct.

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    French Empire
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Curnivore View Post
    If you read beyond the first sentence you'll see I find the image most probably correct.
    You literaly said "without proof" when I specifically said where the proof was, so, again, read and stop typing.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    You literaly said "without proof" when I specifically said where the proof was, so, again, read and stop typing.
    The point was I didn't respond to go against your image eventually, and I actually agreed with you in the end. So again, read beyond the first sentence and we might have a better discussion.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    French Empire
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Curnivore View Post
    The point was I didn't respond to go against your image eventually, and I actually agreed with you in the end. So again, read beyond the first sentence and we might have a better discussion.
    I don't care what you said beyond "without proof", so I pointed out that you didn't read what I posted, as you've been doing for this entire inane conversation. Now how about you stop typing and keep on topic before sinking even lower?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Curnivore View Post
    That sounds like a case of autosuggestion. For example, for the entire Tier 18 at least, Arcane cared minimally about secondaries. It couldn't care less unless it was versatility because the differences were rarely beyond 1-3%.

    Also you can re-enchant.

    - - - Updated - - -


    That's one of the best ways to make bad stat priorities. You start with a minimal set of information (minimal might be an understatement) and you conclude with a clear and static priority. It might surprise you but in certain encounter setups/character setups haste could be 1st, versatility could be above crit, and other such "nonsense".
    From Altered Time.


    Stats

    Critical strike rating is the fuel of the fire spec. It is the stat the spec revolves around at its most basic, therefore it's unsurprising that it's also our best stat.

    Haste allows us to cast more spells, including Fireball which in turn provides us with more Pyroblast. It also has the added benefit of reducing the cooldown on Fire Blast.

    Mastery takes a portion of our damage and leaves a damage over time effect on the target based on the size of the intial hit of the Mastery: Ignite generating spell along with the amount of mastery we have.

    Versatility is just a flat damage increase and damage reduction.


    A very general guideline to stat priorities will look like this: intellect > critical strike > haste => versatility > mastery.

    Might surprise you to know you're an ignorant busy body. Come back when you have something relevant to say.

    Edit: lol arcane didnt care about secondaries during t18? Is this a thing now? I need a fry meme for unsure if being trolled or just noobtalk. Unless you stacked the Hell out of mastery you did all of t18 wrong. You can return to your normal raid now.
    Last edited by Vycaus; 2016-08-19 at 05:17 PM.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycaus View Post
    you're an ignorant busy body. Come back when you have something relevant to say.[..] lol [..] I need a fry meme
    Rinoa made a guide as a general guideline. It does not mean Crit is better than everything on every encounter and character setup and it certainly does not mean stat weights are static. Also it's well established that Arcane wasn't severely affected by stats on T18 with a small and partial exception for versatility.

    On 7.x fire; For example, on a character I had simmed that had already tunnel-visioned crit:



    Another example, when someone asked what happens on extremely short fights:



    (Yes, versatility beat crit there.)
    Last edited by mmocdc260e8e2a; 2016-08-20 at 12:55 AM.

  20. #40
    1. fire APL is still quite a work in progress, pretty pointless to draw conclusions atm
    2. who cares about WOD stuff at this point?
    3. tobindax changed the name to your actual char, well done

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •