Diversity in comic book

[Bapestar]

Nothing else you said in there really excuses your racist sentiments.

He has none, you are doing exactly what he is accusing you of. And it just shows how childish you are acting, and unable to bring legit arguments to the table.

[Ivanstone]

Not call the people who didn't like the trailer misogynists and have the stars going on interviews further insulting them?
And not make meh at best movie marketing on rebooting a franchise no one was clamoring for in an Era where people are getting fed up with reboots?
And not overhype the fact that women are the primary, majority or entirety of the starring roles in your movie, when that has been a thing quite some time?
And say fuck you to people R rated movies need to be edited down for children? (This needs to happen more.)

Somehow I managed to make it through all of that without getting pissed off.
Except for the not "R" rated bit. I am amused by Melissa McCarthy swearing at people.

[Jotaux]

He has none, you are doing exactly what he is accusing you of. And it just shows how childish you are acting, and unable to bring legit arguments to the table.

He's literally said that a characters race defines them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Its awful enough to point out, thats for sure.

ya but every comic has some thing dumb like that you'd be hard pressed to find any character who has never had some thing like that in atlest one comic.

[Dextroden]

Somehow I managed to make it through all of that without getting pissed off.
Except for the not "R" rated bit. I am amused by Melissa McCarthy swearing at people.

Why would you get pissed off at a list of contributors to the fact Ghostbusters went over like a weak firecracker?

[nextormento]

White males forever wasn't going to happen regardless and the so-called "gimmicks" will either work or they wont. Just like any other story element. If it doesn't work, you get your wish and the book gets the axe. If it does work, maybe admit you were wrong and move on.

uh? What wish?
I haven't formulated any opinion on the product; I don't even have one.
Not like commercial success has much to do with quality, which is -purportedly- what people are bitching about.

[Witchblade77]

Thor is the only one that is weird to me, becasue up until that point - I thought Thor was a name, not a title. like... when Beta ray Bill wield's a hammer - he is still Beta Ray Bill, people are not calling him Thor.

I don't mind a woman wielding Mjonir, aside from other people being eligible before, including Bill - Wonder Woman was shown to be worthy in a crossover. so its not even the first time. and I like the story premise itself, I'm just kinda flabbergasted at her being called Thor.

Iron Man? title/alias. Spiderman - same thing. even Captain America is an alias that comes with a suit. but Thor? is an actual name of an actual person. I guess its a minor quibble, but /shrug

basically, I mind it when changes come out of the blue and feel tacked on to me. like... Captain America being Hydra agent all along, the fuck? but if in terms of story it actualy makes sense? why not? and I know its DC, rather then Marvel, but comic books are comic books - how many people did we have wearing Robin's suit? or Speedy's. Ms Marvel becoming captain Marvel and passing along her old title to Kamala Khan? works for me. Thor suddenly being a title? weird :/

edited to add watched Ghostbusters. I liked that they actualy thought about the whys and the how's and bothered to build a backstory for them. cameos were cute. I actualy didn't mind McCarthy's character - a first for me since Gilmore Girls (she's been doing a lot of gross out comedy and its just.. not my thing, I don't watch Will Farrell's movies for the same reason, well except for that whole wonton soup bit, that was just so damn dumb. why is she ordering from the same awful place over and over? its goddamn NYC, there is a chinese takeout on every damn block - order from a different place ffs) the one that everyone seemingly loved though? the wacky engineer. annoyed the HELL out of me. Chris Hemsworth is highly underrated as a comedy actor, he was probably the funniest one in the whole movie, and part of is because despite being written in a completely horrible way - he actualy made it work.

all in all.. it was a mediocre movie IMO. its kinda annoying how they basically try to make disliking it all about "because women!" and ignore any and all criticism, even when said criticism has nothing to do with them being women.

[Ivanstone]

uh? What wish?
I haven't formulated any opinion on the product; I don't even have one.
Not like commercial success has much to do with quality, which is -purportedly- what people are bitching about.

I was pontificating in general terms. Success and quality are somewhat decoupled but if a number of people like it and it sells well, we can assume that good money happens to good comics.

This is why I'm somewhat baffled by the Thor hate. I don't know anyone who hates it, its one of my better sellers. I also know that its well rated via the web and its got good monthly sells. The only unknowns are its digital sales and its TPB sales.

[Dhrizzle]

See now this is actually something, good job. I was still under the impression that it was killed due to this news last year. So that's one problem off the list. Plenty more to go though, such as Jane Foster being an awful choice over Sif et al.

Why do you think Sif or Frigga would make a better choice to take on Thor's role as an Avenger and defender of Midgarde?

[Milchshake]

I want to just yell at the guy for this.

Yell at him for following his marketing data? Do comic nerds suddenly hate data? Nerds used to love data.

[Deleted]

White males forever wasn't going to happen regardless and the so-called "gimmicks" will either work or they wont. Just like any other story element. If it doesn't work, you get your wish and the book gets the axe. If it does work, maybe admit you were wrong and move on.

Think nobady have anything against female superhero characters. But you get a fierce backlash if you try to supersede/replacing a appreciated male character. My favorite character is "sacrificed" in the name of equality. Now I am angry (not realy becuse I know status quo will come back in a year or two)

If they want more equality, make more new unique characters, and introduce them as side/minor characters, Wolverine and Harlequin began as such, or boost/focus on boring characters and transfrom the caracter....who did care about Jean Grey before the phoenix.....the girl who nevere did somthing importent to planetary crusher.

[Sunseeker]

Why do you think Sif or Frigga would make a better choice to take on Thor's role as an Avenger and defender of Midgarde?

There is only one reason Jane Foster was a TERRIBLE choice for "She-Thor", and that reason, is cancer. Because serious, who the fuck is going to be Thor's Girlfriend, find out they have terminal, inoperable cancer, which can be cured in a hot second by Thor's wetnurse, and deny it to demonstrate some "human spirit" bullshit? Seriously? What the fuck kind of garbage is that?

[Deleted]

Why do you think Sif or Frigga would make a better choice to take on Thor's role as an Avenger and defender of Midgarde?

I alway wounder about Sigyn (Æsir deity that is little is known about, except she did was loki lover/wife and her name means "victorious girl-friend" you must have done somthing very interesting to get a titel like that) let here be nobel but and have a "good bad cop" relation with Loki (or if you want it realy dark love martyr) and she kick ass in here wok as protector of asgard then Tor is absent.

[Dhrizzle]

There is only one reason Jane Foster was a TERRIBLE choice for "She-Thor", and that reason, is cancer. Because serious, who the fuck is going to be Thor's Girlfriend, find out they have terminal, inoperable cancer, which can be cured in a hot second by Thor's wetnurse, and deny it to demonstrate some "human spirit" bullshit? Seriously? What the fuck kind of garbage is that?

The fact that any kind of disease exists in a world with Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Hank Pym and the dozen or so other benevolent super-scientists is garbage anyway. Those guys could solve every real-world problem over the course of a long weekend but the writers decide not to let them .

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I alway wounder about Sigyn (Æsir deity that is little is known about, except she did was loki lover/wife and her name means "victorious girl-friend" you must have done somthing very interesting to get a titel like that) let here be nobel but and have a "good bad cop" relation with Loki (or if you want it realy dark love martyr) and she kick ass in here wok as protector of asgard then Tor is absent.

*runs to Wikipedia* Oh hey, she's the one who killed the original Donald Blake.

[Mormolyce]

Nobody thinks the current Thor run is good. It's basically Eric Masterson with even LESS Thor Mythos and FemThor basically does Nothing ever.

Coming down from the Godbutcher or Old Thor vs Galactus to that shlock makes me wish for another Thor Hiatus.

You're completely entitled to have an opinion on the quality of the writing, I haven't read any of it so I can't comment. All I'm saying is, there isn't a fundamental difference between what they're doing with Thor and Jane Foster and what they've done with any number of superheroes over the years to spice up the stories. Maybe this story arc is a shitty one, there's certainly been plenty of those too, but that's all down to taste. I'm sure someone out there really loved the werewolf Captain America :P

Personally I have yet to read any Thor comics I particularly liked. He's never grabbed me the way X-Men, Spiderman, the Fantastic Four etc have. And what I've read so far has not done much to change that opinion.

But I might be totally wrong on that, I have decades more to read

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Think nobady have anything against female superhero characters. But you get a fierce backlash if you try to supersede/replacing a appreciated male character. My favorite character is "sacrificed" in the name of equality. Now I am angry (not realy becuse I know status quo will come back in a year or two)

I mean if Thor was dead and never coming back I might sympathise.

Not that either of those things mean a damn thing in comics.

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Thor is the only one that is weird to me, becasue up until that point - I thought Thor was a name, not a title. like... when Beta ray Bill wield's a hammer - he is still Beta Ray Bill, people are not calling him Thor.

It's only the name of a person via retcon, for decades Thor was the alter ego of Donald Blake.

It's actually incredibly confusing.

[Devilyaki]

Honestly I think stupid. I do not care about the race or gender of anyone, they can make some kick ass characters easily without butchering existing ones just in the name of whatever. I see a lot of the stories that do do this as that being the main focus, which takes away from what really matters. An example being when they had batgirl being lesbian. Instead of batgirl fighting crime it more focused around her and her girl friend .. But what ever sells I guess, most likely will be seeing more and more of this sort of thing as tumblr fools slowly take over everything :/

[Deleted]

I would say this:

Which is just liking a character based on her religion/gender/race

Except she's also a pretty cool character. She gives an insight into how the normal people look at superheroes, as even before she gains her powers she idolises Captain Marvel, hence why she takes on the name Miss Marvel. I love characters fangirling over the other fictional characters (and then becoming just as badass as their idols). And in addition to that she would add some much needed diversity to the MCU (which can tell interesting stories in it's own right. There are stories you can tell about Mslim teenagers struggling with their cultural identity which you can't tell with a character of another ethnicity and I expect that resonates with a lot of muslim readers.). I keep saying it but these things aren't mutually exclusive. I can appreciate that a character adds diversity and enjoy that, while also liking everything else about them. If I don't like their character otherwise I'm unlikely to consider them good representation. Kamala's much more awesome than some alien horse.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

SO when he was a frog? Or got replaced by a horse demon? or died? Those arent forced? What qualifies as forced, cuz it seems like you only think it's forced when it's diversity. In which case the problem isnt the forcing, it's the diversity that bothers you.

See, thats already been explained. But you're conveniently forgetting or ignoring that so you can scream "sexism! racism! ISM!" at the top of your lungs.

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The simplest solution is to let it slide. Currently, Thor is successful and no amount of hand waving will change that. Comics are a bit more diverse than they used to be and we might get some newer readers in because of it.

White males forever wasn't going to happen regardless and the so-called "gimmicks" will either work or they wont. Just like any other story element. If it doesn't work, you get your wish and the book gets the axe. If it does work, maybe admit you were wrong and move on.

Like the Ghostbusters movie. There's obviously a lot of hate for it but the movie is still somewhat successful. Critics liked it and ticket sales were pretty good. Although not enough to justify its bloated production costs. Maybe they needed to take a page from Deadpool?

Wait, didn't they cancel Ghostbusters 2 and the fem Thor? (Thought I read that in this thread)

[Shadowferal]

I think it says a lot about you that you're more ready for a film about an alien horse than you are one about a woman or a gay person or a black person.

All you saw was the pic...but didn't bother reading the post above it.
Says much.
But I'll repost it on the bottom of this one.

Claremont's run was fantastic, sure it was the 80s so half of it was spacey wacey nonsense, but the other half was great character development that eventually gave us the 90s cartoon everyone loves

Claremont's run, following Cockrum's, and topping it off with Dark Phoenix saga, was the best the X-Men ever had.

-----------------------------------
*sigh*
I used to be an avid reader/collector of Marvel comic-books since the mid-70s. I pretty much stopped after it seemed that Marvel was trying to redeem Sabretooth into some hero. (After the Morlock Massacre, he deserved the death penalty.)
But I have to admit that comic books were going down hill since the late 80s. The storylines were just too fucked up. (first time we really get the idea that death isn't permanent was in the amazingly shitty "X-Factor.") They tried...but then the 90s came along and just sucked away. There are few new popular superheroes in the past 15 years, with actual original names and titles. (eg., "Deadpool," "Cable" Gambit)

Today Marvel just connects what is "new" with the old. (Superhero naming is conventionally pulled from the popular heroes, so we'll never see anything really new)

The "anchors" were created in the 60s. (Not counting Cap, Namor or the original Human Torch, or any character from the Golden Age)

Then Marvel got even more creative in the 70s...and they went to the wall with just about everything we know today.
The 80s went crazy from the sheer writing endeavors that reinforced characters that were created; e.g., Beta Ray Bill, Venom, Elecktra, She-Hulk, Dazzler, etc.,...(Though I extremely dislike Venom)

The 90s is when the momentum downhill increased, and very much hit or miss. Cable, Deadpool, and even Gambit were ok. But they had the writers and the characters still reflecting from earlier material. The new "Darkhawk" was intriguing at first. But lacked the writing quality to keep any interest. The "Scarlet Spider" reflected back to Spider-Man, but still suffered from sucky writing. "Winter Guard" didn't make the cut because of the poor writing again. "Thunderbolts" did make the grade in a big way. Damn, that was good writing there! And that's what kept that title going strong.

Things just took an embarrassing turn later. I find most of the readership of today's comic-books has rather poor taste, and prefers to support the lack of writing quality in favor of this "controversy," which in my opinion is nothing more than flashy political correct bullshit. Considering that Marvel VP Tom Brevoort flat out said that the only thing that spikes sales today is controversy, the poor writing will likely continue.

But "Hail Hydra" right?

[Witchblade77]

It's only the name of a person via retcon, for decades Thor was the alter ego of Donald Blake.

It's actually incredibly confusing.

uh. wasn't it the other way around? Donald Blake being alter ego or Thor Odinson of Asgard? kinda like Clark Kent is the alter ego of Kal'el, aka Superman?

its literally Thor, son of Odin, who adopted a human name to hide on earth, not human who some how got godlike powers.

its incredibly confusing, and maybe partly because I'm thinking of Saga's where they originally got all these names, but those nameS? are names, not titles. God of Thunder is a title. Thor is a name. as is Odin. and Frigga. and Sif. etc.


so I'm pretty sure Thor as a title is a retcon, not the other way around.

and wait. did Jane seriously refuse a cure just to wield a hammer? that is so... illogical.